Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[Lori]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?

 

[RichMan]

Tribulation is not wrath.
God's wrath is not poured out until after the seventh (last) trump sounds when the gathering of the Saints happens.
Do you believe that we are really worthy to escape tribulation?
Look at the past history of the saints.
Look past your neighborhood at those saints now experiencing tribulation.

 

[Lori]

Tribulation is not wrath.
God's wrath is not poured out until after the seventh (last) trump sounds when the gathering of the Saints happens.
Do you believe that we are really worthy to escape tribulation?
Look at the past history of the saints.
Look past your neighborhood at those saints now experiencing tribulation.

Well, I believe that there is a difference between tribulation (something that we all go through throughout the course of our lives) and The Great Tribulation which is God pouring out his wrath on a sinful planet. So I'm confused, RichMan. Are you saying that the 7 year tribulation described in Revelation is business as usual, and has nothing to do with God's anger?

And as for your question of our worthiness... I can't imagine that God would suffer and die to redeem me from slavery to sin, if He were only going to punish me in the end anyway. That would make His sacrifice on the cross not worth much at all. Why go through all that if in the end, I'm still guilty?

 

[Beckie]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?

I do not believe in rapture as most folks here do. I do believe our Lord will return. Your sentence about the numbers make me smile. I was only 2 in 1948 but i well remember about 7 years later hearing my parents ( dad a pentecostal pastor ) talk of rapture any time . then again 40 years about 1988 the talk was rapture because of the generation thing. When that did not happen then generation became 80 years.

Somewhere along the line of life i started doubting what i had been taught. Not doubting the Word of God but how some folks explained it. I believe the Olivet Discourse was God prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem about 70 ad. In reading Scripture seems God always warned the Israelites of what was coming.

 

[RichMan]

So you do not believe that today's believers are so good that they should escape great tribulation?
We are just so good and holy that we will not suffer as those first churches did?
What about those during the dark ages?
What about those in the Middle East today?
What about those who suffer through natural disasters, wars, etc?
Study Rev. 20 and about the first resurrection.
If you expect to escape the second death, you must be in the first resurrection.
Notice who is in the first resurrection.
Explain to me how you and the tribulation Saints can both be in the first resurrection if you are resurrected seven years before they are.
Great tribulation is coming. The only way you will escape is to die before it comes.

 

[RichMan]

Well, I believe that there is a difference between tribulation (something that we all go through throughout the course of our lives) and The Great Tribulation which is God pouring out his wrath on a sinful planet. So I'm confused, RichMan. Are you saying that the 7 year tribulation described in Revelation is business as usual, and has nothing to do with God's anger?

And as for your question of our worthiness... I can't imagine that God would suffer and die to redeem me from slavery to sin, if He were only going to punish me in the end anyway. That would make His sacrifice on the cross not worth much at all. Why go through all that if in the end, I'm still guilty?

When Jesus died on the cross it was to pay your sin debt--eternity in Hell.
He will and does punish His children while in the flesh for the sins of the flesh.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So you do not believe that today's believers are so good that they should escape great tribulation?
We are just so good and holy that we will not suffer as those first churches did?
What about those during the dark ages?
What about those in the Middle East today?
What about those who suffer through natural disasters, wars, etc?
Study Rev. 20 and about the first resurrection.
If you expect to escape the second death, you must be in the first resurrection.
Notice who is in the first resurrection.
Explain to me how you and the tribulation Saints can both be in the first resurrection if you are resurrected seven years before they are.
Great tribulation is coming. The only way you will escape is to die before it comes.

How does God speak of the saved? Therefore there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, we are call a child of God, Holy Saints, Righteous, etc.

We are in fact good, perfect and Holy but not by our works. Only through the blood of Christ. This is grace and something we did not deserve.

 

[arthurfleminger]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?

Why are you doing so much worrying about the end times? I assure you that you will most probably die before the 'end times', chances are at 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% give or take. So many predictions have been made that the end of the world is near, yet we are still here. So many people worried about the end times over the last 2,000 years and almost all of them are dead and gone.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

When Jesus died on the cross it was to pay your sin debt--eternity in Hell.
He will and does punish His children while in the flesh for the sins of the flesh.

It was to also make you righteous in the eyes of God. God actually forgets the sin and only sees you through the lens of Christ. Our sin was taking upon Jesus and His righteous bestowed onto us.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Why are you doing so much worrying about the end times? I assure you that you will most probably die before the 'end times', chances are at 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% give or take. So many predictions have been made that the end of the world is near, yet we are still here. So many people worried about the end times over the last 2,000 years and almost all of them are dead and gone.

You sure? Let me ask what is still to take place prophetically for Jesus to gather the Church or before the tribulation to occur?

 

[RichMan]

It was to also make you righteous in the eyes of God. God actually forgets the sin and only sees you through the lens of Christ. Our sin was taking upon Jesus and His righteous bestowed onto us.

Why do saints suffer such tribulation today?
Why do you believe you are more worthy than they?
Explain how some saints can be resurrected seven years apart all be in the first resurrection?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Why do saints suffer such tribulation today?
Why do you believe you are more worthy than they?
Explain how some saints can be resurrected seven years apart all be in the first resurrection?

Trials and tribulations are in different context when speaking of the 7 year tribulation.

We experience the ills of Earth because of the state of evil, free will, and the fallen nature of the planet. But we do not experience God's end time judgement as holy people that contradicts what Jesus paid for.

The resurrection actually happens in stages. There were a few I the OT. Then those like Lazarus. Then Jesus and other Saints when Jesus was raised. Then will be the Church. Then will be the dead after the millennium who will see the Great white throne.

 

[RichMan]

Trials and tribulations are in different context when speaking of the 7 year tribulation.

We experience the ills of Earth because of the state of evil, free will, and the fallen nature of the planet. But we do not experience God's end time judgement as holy people that contradicts what Jesus paid for.

The resurrection actually happens in stages. There were a few I the OT. Then those like Lazarus. Then Jesus and other Saints when Jesus was raised. Then will be the Church. Then will be the dead after the millennium who will see the Great white throne.

So how can all be in the first resurrection?
By the way, all those resurrected in the past were resurrected in the flesh, not glorified bodies.

 

[Runningman]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?

There’s pre, mid, post, and non-tribbers here and some partial preterists as far as I can tell.

The church is not appointed to wrath under any circumstances.

The great tribulation can be proved to not be God’s wrath.

The only possibility is post-trib.

When I’m not on my phone I’ll prove it using scripture. Thanks for being open minded.

Question, are you a dispensational premillennialist or a dual covenant theologian?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So how can all be in the first resurrection?
By the way, all those resurrected in the past were resurrected in the flesh, not glorified bodies.

The first resurrection is in three stages.

The resurrections that have occurred in the past were examples and evidence pointing towards the truth of Jesus.

(1) When our Lord was crucified on the Cross, we read: “And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose” (Matthew 27:51-52).

(2) There is the second stage of the First Resurrection to which we already have made mention (1 Thessalonians 4:16), when all true believers are raised at the first appearance of Christ. To this we add the Apostle Paul’s word in First Corinthians: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:52).

(3) The third and final stage of the First Resurrection occurs about seven years after the resurrection of saints at Christ’s coming at the rapture. “Those resurrected near the close of the seven years’ period of the tribulation are the multitude of believers who were led to the truth through the witness of the 144,000.” Because they would not receive the mark of the beast in their hands and foreheads, they were martyred. These are brought forth from the dead at the end of the Tribulation just before Christ comes to earth to reign for one thousand years.

 

[RichMan]

The first resurrection is in three stages.

The resurrections that have occurred in the past were examples and evidence pointing towards the truth of Jesus.

(1) When our Lord was crucified on the Cross, we read: “And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose” (Matthew 27:51-52).

(2) There is the second stage of the First Resurrection to which we already have made mention (1 Thessalonians 4:16), when all true believers are raised at the first appearance of Christ. To this we add the Apostle Paul’s word in First Corinthians: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:52).

(3) The third and final stage of the First Resurrection occurs about seven years after the resurrection of saints at Christ’s coming at the rapture. “Those resurrected near the close of the seven years’ period of the tribulation are the multitude of believers who were led to the truth through the witness of the 144,000.” Because they would not receive the mark of the beast in their hands and foreheads, they were martyred. These are brought forth from the dead at the end of the Tribulation just before Christ comes to earth to reign for one thousand years.

I disagree.
What you have stated can not be proven with a rightly dividing of the Word.

 

[Runningman]

The first resurrection is in three stages.

The resurrections that have occurred in the past were examples and evidence pointing towards the truth of Jesus.

(1) When our Lord was crucified on the Cross, we read: “And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose” (Matthew 27:51-52).

(2) There is the second stage of the First Resurrection to which we already have made mention (1 Thessalonians 4:16), when all true believers are raised at the first appearance of Christ. To this we add the Apostle Paul’s word in First Corinthians: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:52).

(3) The third and final stage of the First Resurrection occurs about seven years after the resurrection of saints at Christ’s coming at the rapture. “Those resurrected near the close of the seven years’ period of the tribulation are the multitude of believers who were led to the truth through the witness of the 144,000.” Because they would not receive the mark of the beast in their hands and foreheads, they were martyred. These are brought forth from the dead at the end of the Tribulation just before Christ comes to earth to reign for one thousand years.

I kinda agree with most of that except I believe there is a 4th stage of the first resurrection that occurs after the 1,000 year millennial kingdom. See Revelation 20.

I’ll briefly summarize: after the 1,000 years the rest of the dead came to life. Also, after the 1,000 years, Satan is released from his prison to assemble an army of unbelievers against the encampment of the saints.

If the GWTJ is supposed to be after the resurrection of the damned then the army Satan assembles excludes those people.

The 4th stage of the first resurrection must be saints.

 

[Proverbs_Four]

Do you believe that we are really worthy to escape tribulation?

As the Body of Christ . . . Yes!

 

[glen55]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?

Post could be what happens to people worried about flesh and blood, pre fits spirit that never worried about death for physical dust or dead to bright light neither death have power over spirit who created grace and mercy for good and evil shadows to Spirit never Actually Judges anything but thoughts that are evil in minds.

 

[RichMan]

As the Body of Christ . . . Yes!

So those early saints who died such violent deaths were less worthy than you?
Were they not the Body of Christ?