Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?

[Pilgrimshope]

All will have a celestrial body made suitable for a celestrial world. Just to think about it in this way: Imagine this cosmos we're living in as a virtual game world, God is the sole designer and developer of it, and we're just characters made of data. He's OUTSIDE, and yet with the ability to intercede. There's actually a scientific term for this game world called "time-space continuum", and God and His angels are maintaining it from the OUTSIDE. God was able to "speak" anything into existence like a programmer writing lines of codes and turning those codes into active programs. When our lives come to an end, we just return to our Maker, by then we'll be outside of this time-space continuum as well.

“All will have a celestrial body made suitable for a celestrial world.”

yes when we die we will of we are in Christ it’s what Paul’s talking about the “spiritual body “ it’s made for the spiritual realm. Just like we live now inside this temporary body.

Consider this spiritual teaching of the lord regarding two men who are living in earth , who die , and enter the spiritual world while the earth continues on as usual before the end

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died ( earthly body) , and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: ( spiritual body)

the rich man also died, and was buried; ( earthly body) and in hell ( spiritual body ) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Translation of the body happens at the moment of death so for instance the rich man there would be in this group at the end

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but Lazarus would be in the group of the living in glory with Christ like these two
Men who once lived upon the earth yet appear when Jesus is transfigured and shows his glorified body then they appear talking with him

“And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I understand perfectly we have a body meant for the heavenly and spiritual things “ celestial” but our terrestrial “ earthly temporal “ body is not that body .

it’s like a tent we live inside of on earth , a vehicle we operate in until we part from it and enter into the spiritual realm made for the celestial body.

this guy when he died entered into that place his true eternal spiritual body left his temporal one his earthly body was no doubt buried in a mass grave , but yet he entered alive into paradise with the lord

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s just like that spiritual teachings g of the afterlife earlier when he died because he believed in the lord , he entered into the heavenly kingdom that’s where we need the celestial body.

those who never die aren’t going to be raised from the dead they only shed thier earthly body and enter into the celestial kingdom because they believed
When they were in earth

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a resurrection right there it’s of faith though we have to believe it and then when our body dies he will deliver

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again that’s true it’s just some don’t have the faith to receive it as true and real so we try to reckon the spiritual things away and look back to the natural which we’ve always known

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:

he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again that’s absolutely true but who can believe it is the important part ?

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: “

There’s those who also are alive and believe before they die, in Christ they have died already by faith and rose so when tbier flesh dies those spirit doesn’t enter death with it it goes to the celestial places another plain of existence

we can’t see into heaven and hell because we are presently blinded by the natural corrupted body , believers when we die we’re going into the celestial kingdom that day but those who reject the gospel on the other hand have to wait till the end at the white throne because they are the dead , believers have become the living in Christ and his body of glory made for the celestial

if we died with Christ , we don’t have to read death anymore it’s why he died for us and offers his words of eternal
Life

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can accept his judgement now repent and believe and have all our sins remitted or we can reject it and be raised at the last day from the grave and hell either way the same words will judge us we can accept them now and live or reject them

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

That’s the group of the second resirrection who didn’t accept the gospel and repent and receive remission of thier sins

this is the group of the first resurrection who did

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

That’s again is a word made of faith we have to believe it in order to have it come to pass the day our flesh dies . It’s only a promise of faith from the lord some will Receive it others will reject it

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭

We have tinker the gospel create our hope and believe he will bring it to pass either way we

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

“All will have a celestrial body made suitable for a celestrial world.”

yes when we die we will of we are in Christ it’s what Paul’s talking about the “spiritual body “ it’s made for the spiritual realm. Just like we live now inside this temporary body.

Consider this spiritual teaching of the lord regarding two men who are living in earth , who die , and enter the spiritual world while the earth continues on as usual before the end

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died ( earthly body) , and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: ( spiritual body)

the rich man also died, and was buried; ( earthly body) and in hell ( spiritual body ) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Translation of the body happens at the moment of death so for instance the rich man there would be in this group at the end

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but Lazarus would be in the group of the living in glory with Christ like these two
Men who once lived upon the earth yet appear when Jesus is transfigured and shows his glorified body then they appear talking with him

“And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I understand perfectly we have a body meant for the heavenly and spiritual things “ celestial” but our terrestrial “ earthly temporal “ body is not that body .

it’s like a tent we live inside of on earth , a vehicle we operate in until we part from it and enter into the spiritual realm made for the celestial body.

this guy when he died entered into that place his true eternal spiritual body left his temporal one his earthly body was no doubt buried in a mass grave , but yet he entered alive into paradise with the lord

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s just like that spiritual teachings g of the afterlife earlier when he died because he believed in the lord , he entered into the heavenly kingdom that’s where we need the celestial body.

those who never die aren’t going to be raised from the dead they only shed thier earthly body and enter into the celestial kingdom because they believed
When they were in earth

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a resurrection right there it’s of faith though we have to believe it and then when our body dies he will deliver

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again that’s true it’s just some don’t have the faith to receive it as true and real so we try to reckon the spiritual things away and look back to the natural which we’ve always known

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:

he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again that’s absolutely true but who can believe it is the important part ?

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: “

There’s those who also are alive and believe before they die, in Christ they have died already by faith and rose so when tbier flesh dies those spirit doesn’t enter death with it it goes to the celestial places another plain of existence

we can’t see into heaven and hell because we are presently blinded by the natural corrupted body , believers when we die we’re going into the celestial kingdom that day but those who reject the gospel on the other hand have to wait till the end at the white throne because they are the dead , believers have become the living in Christ and his body of glory made for the celestial

if we died with Christ , we don’t have to read death anymore it’s why he died for us and offers his words of eternal
Life

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can accept his judgement now repent and believe and have all our sins remitted or we can reject it and be raised at the last day from the grave and hell either way the same words will judge us we can accept them now and live or reject them

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

That’s the group of the second resirrection who didn’t accept the gospel and repent and receive remission of thier sins

this is the group of the first resurrection who did

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

That’s again is a word made of faith we have to believe it in order to have it come to pass the day our flesh dies . It’s only a promise of faith from the lord some will Receive it others will reject it

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭

We have tinker the gospel create our hope and believe he will bring it to pass either way we

But before then, "occupy till I return" or "do business till I return", be fruitful and multiply. If you can't multiply in the sense of reproduction, at least be fruitful in the sense of production.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

But before then, "occupy till I return" or "do business till I return", be fruitful and multiply. If you can't multiply in the sense of reproduction, at least be fruitful in the sense of production.

yes and we can only be fruitful until we part the world then we will enjoy the fruits of the labor we knew on earth .

“whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:4-6, 8-11‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

yes and we can only be fruitful until we part the world then we will enjoy the fruits of the labor we knew on earth .

“whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:4-6, 8-11‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yeah, the point is that don't be a paranoid alarmist, but rather be prepared for the coming calamity, both spiritually and materially. The upcoming famine is one big challenge.

 

[Magenta]

I can't say that Bible led me to Jesus, because it was usually friends and family that initially lead people to Him, then music and sermons. And when you listen to music and sermons, you get all these different ideas of Jesus. That's because we all have our own deeply rooted views and values - including all of these above that I listed and you LOLed at. Most people tend to read the bible through the lens of these views and values instead of re-examining their views and values through the lens of the bible. In other words, they're trying to fit God into the box they've built, even though God was out of the box which He personally instructed Moses to build. With a closed mind, you always look for affirmation when you think you are looking for information. Therefore, these versions of Jesus are developed as a marketing strategy to cater to different audiences.

I characterize what you have said here like so:

Defining God in terms acceptable to _____
as opposed to
Defining _____ in terms acceptable to God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I characterize what you have said here like so:

Defining God in terms acceptable to _____
as opposed to
Defining _____ in terms acceptable to God.

In the OT God is the Lord of all creation, that's the first intellectual stumbling block for most people whose minds are totally shaped by the evolutionary view. Even a lot of Christians are compromised to this evolutionary view by trivializing the creation account.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yeah, the point is that don't be a paranoid alarmist, but rather be prepared for the coming calamity, both spiritually and materially. The upcoming famine is one big challenge.

yes and the message has been the same since that first generations of Christians
The gospel is a perpetual message applicable to every generation until he comes

“Heaven and earth shall pass away:

but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning

: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31-37‬ ‭

an apostles witness of this

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-6, 8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s why Inevery generation people think the end is near as expect a rapture , the gospel is like a mirror for the world and it just keeps repeating itself until the return of the king

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

yes and the message has been the same since that first generations of Christians
The gospel is a perpetual message applicable to every generation until he comes

“Heaven and earth shall pass away:

but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning

: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31-37‬ ‭

an apostles witness of this

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-6, 8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s why Inevery generation people think the end is near as expect a rapture , the gospel is like a mirror for the world and it just keeps repeating itself until the return of the king

I do believe it's really near to the end this time, though, Jesus would return between 2028 to 2042 on the first day of a jubilee year. All the past tribulations were on a local scale, even during WWII, Latin America, sub-Sahara Africa, India, Middle East and many other areas were mostly untouched; these days there's no rock you can hide under, anything that's supposedly regional can make huge impact on a global scale like butterfly effect.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I do believe it's really near to the end this time, though, Jesus would return between 2028 to 2042 on the first day of a jubilee year. All the past tribulations were on a local scale, even during WWII, Latin America, sub-Sahara Africa, India, Middle East and many other areas were mostly untouched; these days there's no rock you can hide under, anything that's supposedly regional can make huge impact on a global scale like butterfly effect.

amen I agree it sure seems
Like everything is coming into alignment to me also like a flood the earth is becoming spiritually desolate.

but I just note that , it’s also the structure of faith to believe it’s very near. When one spends much time in the word . We’re meant to live as of he could arrive tomorrow or in a thousand years. It’s part of our motivation not to become complacent and not to stray to far from the sheep pen , or let our oil run out when the bridegroom arrives

but I concur it sure seems like it’s very close

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

amen I agree it sure seems
Like everything is coming into alignment to me also like a flood the earth is becoming spiritually desolate.

but I just note that , it’s also the structure of faith to believe it’s very near. When one spends much time in the word . We’re meant to live as of he could arrive tomorrow or in a thousand years. It’s part of our motivation not to become complacent and not to stray to far from the sheep pen , or let our oil run out when the bridegroom arrives

but I concur it sure seems like it’s very close

In essence, the same ethos of living every day as though it was your last day. I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but somehow the older you grow, the faster time elapses. There's just less and less time you could spend for pleasure at your disposal even if it seems like a lot of spare time without any burden of work or other responsibilities.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In essence, the same ethos of living every day as though it was your last day. I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but somehow the older you grow, the faster time elapses.

oh yeah , I once was a young man strong and healthy In my prime, cared much about the world . now I’m an old man realizing the temporary nature of the flesh and how the world is not my home.

the closer I get to departing this world , I find my hope is much more solid in Christ and his promises of life. I thought I would be afraid as it approached more and more but now that I’ve heard the lord and what he’s done the fear of death is not something I find.

loneliness comes sometimes but a different kind of loneliness than I knew in my youth. More a loneliness from the world and longing for Christ and his kingdom , to see his face and hear him call my name.

As I’ve gotten old . I wish sometimes I understood what I do now , when I was young I’ve lived a decent life done some good , also some wrong that left regret.
I understand now my hope is in the lord I wish in had known then what I do now 🙂

but it seems so is the nature of life as it becomes shorter and shorter we learn and grow and experience and somehow the lord pulls us through it all , the shorter the days get , the more the memories and moments with people we’ve loved and cherished seem like yesterday and regrets fade into the distant.

and Jesus comes closer and closer until that last day when we depart and he comes to bring us home.

oh I’ve began to ramble , sorry you really hit on a matter I have been pondering for awhile now I apologize for straying there

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

oh yeah , I once was a young man strong and healthy In my prime, cared much about the world . now I’m an old man realizing the temporary nature of the flesh and how the world is not my home.

the closer I get to departing this world , I find my hope is much more solid in Christ and his promises of life. I thought I would be afraid as it approached more and more but now that I’ve heard the lord and what he’s done the fear of death is not something I find.

loneliness comes sometimes but a different kind of loneliness than I knew in my youth. More a loneliness from the world and longing for Christ and his kingdom , to see his face and hear him call my name.

As I’ve gotten old . I wish sometimes I understood what I do now , when I was young I’ve lived a decent life done some good , also some wrong that left regret.
I understand now my hope is in the lord I wish in had known then what I do now 🙂

but it seems so is the nature of life as it becomes shorter and shorter we learn and grow and experience and somehow the lord pulls us through it all , the shorter the days get , the more the memories and moments with people we’ve loved and cherished seem like yesterday and regrets fade into the distant.

and Jesus comes closer and closer until that last day when we depart and he comes to bring us home.

oh I’ve began to ramble , sorry you really hit on a matter I have been pondering for awhile now I apologize for straying there

Oh no, please, it's nice and rare to hear some authentic testimony like this, very relatable, especially the loneliness part. I'm of the millennial generation, maybe not as experienced in life and seasoned with age as you are, but I've already felt what Paul said in Philippians 3:8, that all I've once thought gain and held dear are counted as loss.

2020 was a turning point is American and world history, but also a turning point for me. It was not just the PLANdemic and the shutdown, it was much more than that, there's this DEMONIC spirit of wokeness sweeping across the entire western hemisphere. Since then, everything I used to enjoy became an abomination, all these big businesses there were not much involved in politics before were all going woke, they all spoke in the same voice echoing the same agenda like the ten kings worshiping the Beast, meanwhile the quality of their products and contents sharply decliend. All these idols had just collapsed, I actually didn't want to leave them, I really wanna hang onto them as an escape, but they left me. They've lost their appeal to me. Before 2020 they were just spiritual junk food, now they were POISON. And in my hunger and thirst, the Holy Spirit pointed me to Jesus, the Bread of Life and Living Water.

For now I'm still deep in struggle with the temptation of backsliding everyday, especially in my most vulnerable moments when I'm stressed and sleepy, when my mind is like mush with my guard down. But now I can hear the Holy Spirit speaking in my heart, it's as faint as a whisper, barely audible, and yet it's so powerful that it convicts me of my sin and disciplines my behavior. For now it's just in the passive stage, that I'm still in the process of purging these idols from my heart while developing my relationship with God. And when I'm with the Holy Spirit, medidating on God's words and discussing them with others, time just flies away. Holy Spirit just magically shortens every long and hard day bringing me closer to God. Truly, a thousand years is like one day with the Lord. That's not just a prophetic statement, but also a spiritual experience.

 

[Runningman]

Thanks, I learned about that from an interview on Timcast IRL with Dailywire CEO Jeremy Boreing. They had a casual chat over a couple of topics, and it moved to God in the last segment. Tim Pool is an independent journalist, he was not raised a Christian and his show is never meant to be religous in anyway, but they seemed to understand the nature of God better than many Christians do, even better than some pastors who always try to avoid the aspect of creation. Tim brought up this phylosophical question which you've probably heard at school - can God create a boulder that He couldn't lift up? This is a loaded question with a false premise. God never has to "lift up" any boulder, He could just remove it by deleting its data.

That’s interesting. Have you heard of simulation theory? Possible candidate for religion of the future. It basically posits that that the likelihood that we’re living in a simulation is high and that the universe has a creator. What makes it compelling is that it’s even an attractive philosophy to secular minds such as Elon Musk for example. This sorta strikes the same chord we landed on here, but it isn’t Christian truth of course. However, some of the elements we’re discussing, like comparing God to a computer programmer, are common in simulation theory.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That’s interesting. Have you heard of simulation theory? Possible candidate for religion of the future. It basically posits that that the likelihood that we’re living in a simulation is high and that the universe has a creator. What makes it compelling is that it’s even an attractive philosophy to secular minds such as Elon Musk for example. This sorta strikes the same chord we landed on here, but it isn’t Christian truth of course. However, some of the elements we’re discussing, like comparing God to a computer programmer, are common in simulation theory.

We're already living in a simulation reading fake news and eating GMO food, there's hardly anything natural and authentic. This Babylonian system is a matrix, and the Word of God is the red pill.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hey glad you commented here!

Thanks!

The way I see it is that we are not given precise timelines. While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think it is conclusive and that your scriptures ultimately require that those who are Christ's at His coming be a singular group. Let me explain that, if possible, briefly.

My focus is to determine, if possible, the order of events across a timeline. Not so much when events will occur (as in day or year).

I do agree that the verses I share do require that the resurrection of the saved to be a singular (one time event). Not phased, etc.

-Jesus said below that the hour is coming where the dead will hear His voice, come out of their graves, and they will come forth to the resurrection of life and damnation. And oversimplified view of these two verses may lead one to conclude that at a singular hour that all of the dead will be resurrected in one single group...
John 5:25,29 KJV
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It think it is easy to see this as simply noting the two separate resurrections, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

While some may see this as occurring at the same time, that can be disproven from several verses. For example, the resurrection of the saved will occur "when He comes" in 1 Cor 15:23. And Rev 20:5 specifically calls the resurrection of trib martyrs the FIRST resurrection. That implies the resurrection of the unsaved as being the second resurrection.

So, from all this, the resurrection of the saved will occur when Jesus comes back at the Second Advent, to set up His kingdom and will "rule the nations with a rod of iron". (Millennium)

-When actually Revelation 20:5 says that there is a 1,000 year gap between two resurrection groups not an hour...
Revelation 20:5 KJV
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Right. Obviously there cannot be 2 resurrections in a single one. The "rest of the dead" will be resurrected after the 1,000 years. And what occurs then? The GWT judgment. So, all unbelievers will be resurrected in their mortal bodies for the GWT. And when they are cast into the lake of fire, their mortal resurrected body will DIE AGAIN.

That is why the lake of fire is also called the "second death". Unbelievers will experience two physical deaths.

-Daniel begins to introduce the possibility, using the words "many of them", to describe the resurrections, making it possible to see the first resurrection as multiple groups since he didn't say "all of them..."
Daniel 12:2 KJV
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

But we know from many verses that resurrection is always in the singular.
John 11:25, Mark 12:18, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23. I don't believe that Daniel was describing "numbers of resurrections" by the phrase "many of them". He was referring to people.

-This says that Christ will resurrect those that are His at His coming, then comes the end, but the definite article the end, is only when the kingdom is delivered up to the Father of Christ., after he has put down all rule and authority and power...
1 Corinthians 15:23-24 KJV
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Some verses are summary verses. The words "then the end" could easily be a reference to the end time of the present earth, after which will be melted and there will be a new earth.

-If the resurrection is Revelation 20:5 is the resurrection of the damned after 1,000 years then when why are there still living wicked people when Satan is released from prison after 1,000 years and is running amok?
-As evidenced again by Revelation 20, there is still some authority and power to put down. After the 1,000 millennial kingdom, Satan is out of prison and goes out to deceives the nations and produces a huge army...
Revelation 20:7-8 KJV
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

By Rev 20:5, ALL believers will have been resurrected into their glorified bodies, and all the remaining dead will be unbelievers. Yes, there will be mortals who will populate the Millennium, but no believers. Only unbelievers. And all of them will be killed at the battle of Gog and Magog.

v.9 - They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

This shows that the whole of the earth's population is killed at that moment. What follows is what happens to Satan in v.10.

And v.11 begins the GWT judgment, which requires all unbelievers to be resurrected, but only in their mortal bodies. Only to have them die again.

If Revelation 20:5 is the resurrection of the damned, then there is still a world of living and breathing unbelievers in Revelation 20:7-8 which would mean there would need to be yet another resurrection of the damned after they are defeated with fire from heaven.

I addressed that above.

Really what I am trying to get you to see here is that the timelines are not precise and there is room to conclude that Revelation 20:5 is the second part of the first resurrection, even likely. As Daniel 12:2 says, "many of them" and not "all of them." So think about that. If you made it to here then thanks for reading.

I firmly believe that the 'rest of the dead' has to be the unbelievers, who all will be resurrected after the battle of Gog and Magog to appear at the GWT judgment.

But people will disagree with me. The Bible says to "be convinced in your own mind", and I am.

I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. I guess it comes down to what is believed about the phrase 'rest of the dead'. Since all believers will have been resurrected by v.5, I can't see any other category for "rest of the dead".

 

[Mem]

The rest of the dead will not live again until the thousand years have ended, when Satan will be release 'for a little while' to deceive once again. He is bound so that he no longer could deceive anyone during the millennium , after the beast and the false prophet is cast into the lake of fire. These two will not be resurrected since they 'are' in the lake of fire sneaky: because their life has been extinguished). So when 'the rest of the dead' live again, during this 'little while' period, they're likely to be doing one deed or another, such as gathering to the dragon, and will be judged accordingly. Rev 7 has a great multitude standing before the throne and the Lamb, Rev 20 dead stand before One seated on the throne with books with no mention of the Lamb other than (His) Book of Life, "And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15)," and their life is extinguished.

 

[Runningman]

The rest of the dead will not live again until the thousand years have ended, when Satan will be release 'for a little while' to deceive once again. He is bound so that he no longer could deceive anyone during the millennium , after the beast and the false prophet is cast into the lake of fire. These two will not be resurrected since they 'are' in the lake of fire sneaky: because their life has been extinguished). So when 'the rest of the dead' live again, during this 'little while' period, they're likely to be doing one deed or another, such as gathering to the dragon, and will be judged accordingly. Rev 7 has a great multitude standing before the throne and the Lamb, Rev 20 dead stand before One seated on the throne with books with no mention of the Lamb other than (His) Book of Life, "And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15)," and their life is extinguished.

Thanks for the fresh perspective, but I can’t see it and I’ll explain why.

If the “rest of the dead” are actually just the damned and they are resurrected before Gog and Magog then they have to literally be somewhere. If they go back to Earth, are killed with fire from heaven, then they have to be resurrected yet again to stand at the GWTJ. That would mean the second death would actually be their third death.

I haven’t discovered any way to make the resurrection in Revelation 20:5 actually a resurrection of the damned. Please consider this is a resurrection of the righteous who were not permitted to have a resurrected body in the millennial kingdom.

 

[FreeGrace2]

[QUOTE="Runningman, post: 4813658, member: 294652"I haven’t discovered any way to make the resurrection in Revelation 20:5 actually a resurrection of the damned. Please consider this is a resurrection of the righteous who were not permitted to have a resurrected body in the millennial kingdom.[/QUOTE]
Then why doesn't the Bible say anything about another resurrection of the saved?? 1 Cor 15:23 alone refutes that idea. And then there are the numerous verses that speak of resurrection for either the saved or the unsaved in the SINGULAR.

 

[Mem]

Thanks for the fresh perspective, but I can’t see it and I’ll explain why.

If the “rest of the dead” are actually just the damned and they are resurrected before Gog and Magog then they have to literally be somewhere. If they go back to Earth, are killed with fire from heaven, then they have to be resurrected yet again to stand at the GWTJ. That would mean the second death would actually be their third death.

I haven’t discovered any way to make the resurrection in Revelation 20:5 actually a resurrection of the damned. Please consider this is a resurrection of the righteous who were not permitted to have a resurrected body in the millennial kingdom.

I've been following the thread and understand that you see that, since the statement that, "the rest of the dead will not live again until the thousand years are finished,' precedes the statement, 'this is the first resurrection,' and that this does imply another resurrection. Likewise, the term 'second death' implies a first death, and I believe this occurs at Christ's advent when wrath is exacted, hence they live not again until the thousand years are finished.
To address your point that, once resurrected these are killed with fire from heaven, I believe this is reflective of how the beast and false profit are 'killed' and 'thrown into the lake of fire which, in the latter case is 'destroyed at the brightness of His Coming.'

I believe it is presumption that anyone (of us) will 'see' anyone else literally being 'thrown into the lake of fire,'' although scriptures does say angels are witness of it. But, then again, I realize this is probably not an traditional nor common understanding among scholars.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe it is presumption that anyone (of us) will 'see' anyone else literally being 'thrown into the lake of fire,'' although scriptures does say angels are witness of it. But, then again, I realize this is probably not an traditional nor common understanding among scholars.

I agree, because the lake of fire isn't even on the earth. Many scholars believe it is a very distant star, which is really a "lake of fire".

In any case, believers won't be anywhere near the lake of fire.