Pre trib doctrine REPEAT OF of the 12 spies

[kleronomos]

You see a connection that I don't, and you are not spelling it out in plain language.

I will try and use less of my words and more of His as you have correctly pointed out, mine are lacking.

Ask in His name

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


Ephesians 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and IN THE POWER OF HIS MIGHT

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 ABOVE ALL, TAKING THE SHIELF OF FAITH WHEREWITH YE SHALL BE ABLE TO QUENCH ALL THE FIERY DARS OF THE WICKED.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for ALL saints

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

 

[kleronomos]

A better translation is "withstand". The church is on the advance, not on retreat.

Do you believe that? Do you believe that THE WORDS OF GOD are being taught in more places or just that there are more places claiming to be?

None of the passages you have cited have anything to do with the twelve spies. None of the explanation you have provided demonstrates a clear link, even tenuous, between the pre-trib rapture and the twelve spies.

The reason I am going off in other directions is because you do not see the connection. God tells us to PUT ON His words and it is His words that will shield us and keep us from evil and deliver us from all that comes against us. We read over and over about the Miracles of God so we can have FAITH in His Power and for us to know and see HE IS IN CONTROL.

The 'spies' saw the 'giants' and were afraid to engage in war with them, seeing them as too powerful to over come. Didn't matter God had promised them the land, they still didn't TRUST Him. Didn't matter they had just LIVED through the plagues, been released from captivity, walked through the sea, they STILL didn't HAVE FAITH in the power of God. They JUST wanted to cruise on through, have GOD do everything, give everything and they weren't even willing to fight for what was theirs knowing God had given them the victory.
Same as the pre trib rapture. WE have BEEN GIVEN THE END OF THE STORY. We know GOD WINS. Sure, we may have to fight a battle but NOTHING CAN DEFEAT US. We might lose this flesh body but we already know that isn't EVEN ANYTHING TO FEAR it is just part of the process. BUT just like the people of old, take and no give. No faith in the power of God. No seeing what lies beyond the battle. No sacrifice on their part just on Gods.

God has a plan. He made a people and also made promises to that people. Those people are described as a tree rooted in Christ. God then invited the rest of the world to join up with that people. To become heirs of those promises. SURE some of the people didn't have faith and so were cast away. Some of the rest of the world decided to become partakers with them and to become heirs of the promises also.

Then what happened? I don't know. Did the branches kick the other branches to the curb? Did the root split in two? Were there new promises brought in which was for the new branches only? Did the wall that divided them get built back up and now there are 2 trees?

SO I AM TOLD. Only problem is GOD WRITES things DIRECTLY to us. Easy to find, easy to read, easy to study, and usually in a couple different ways so as to be understood.


BUT then all of a sudden, we are supposed to believe that GOD has changed and now His Truths are 'no longer written but need to be explained to be 'UNDERSTOOD'. God has quit giving details and now only gives vague references that forces us to figure out what is meant because what is written is no longer what is truth. The bride of Christ means transformed and taken to heaven for a wedding that isn't written of, to do ??? well nothing is written and the ??? as we don't know what follows and then ??? we don't know even know what comes of them in the end, at least not by the words of GOD. ALL of a sudden God goes SILENT on EVERY SINGLE detail about a pre trib rapture the biggest and most life changing event to ever happen and all I see it doing is stealing the limelight from the true return of Christ by putting it all into question. There is my explanation Hope it suffices and clears up everything else.

 

[kleronomos]

Not even remotely. It's talking about the abominable practices of witchcraft, which you might see if you used a modern translation instead of trying to wade through 16th-century middle English. Perhaps you should stop assuming that most OT prophecies have yet to be fulfilled.

Please explain

 

[Dino246]

Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Amos 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD

Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.








God wants us to make a STAND. To PROCLAIM HIS GLORY. To fight for the right. To spread HIS WORDS. His desire is that ALL COME TO REPENTANCE. Therefore, basic common sense tells us that taking 'the church', his army on the earth, built up over 2000 years, who is responsible for doing just that, away WOULD not be the way to get every last souls to come to repentance.

Let's remember His first chosen people didn't want the whole world to hear. So what did God do? He brought in a nation that would spread HIS TRUTH. A nation that would come in faith. HOW DOES ONE COME IN FAITH? What is written?



13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

TO THE END OF THE WORLD

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

A foolish nation I would agree especially IF THEY THINK that Gods Plan has changed from what it has always been.



2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

GOD HIMSELF IS AND HAS SUFFERED THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. GOD HAS DIED FOR OUR SINS TO BE FORGIVEN. GOD HAS DONE EVERYTHING FOR US and He asks us to SPREAD THE WORD AND DON'T DENY HIM and ENDURE TO THE END. Is that really asking to much? Hey, they can only kill you the one time and that time IS PRECIOUS in the eyes of God. It carries weight with Him. Surely He knows, that to love someone that much that you would willingly give your life for them, is the greatest sacrifice of all. Why would He deny us that opportunity. He tells us He will never give us more than we can handle. Doesn't that tell you that those who can will and those who can't won't. How do you remove from those willing and able for those who aren't?

I have heard tell 'the rapture' will make the believers repent. BUT what GOD SAYS tells us a lot about how GOD feels about that

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired Him that He would shew them a sign from heaven.

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And He left them, and departed.



1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


I hope this explains.

Thank you, yes. I am inclined to agree.

 

[Dino246]

Please explain

The passage you cited from Ezekiel 13 is much more clear in the NASB, NIV, or ESV than it is in the KJV.

As for the latter part of my post, it appears that you are promoting the idea that Ezekiel 13 has yet to be fulfilled. Is that what you believe?

 

[kleronomos]

The passage you cited from Ezekiel 13 is much more clear in the NASB, NIV, or ESV than it is in the KJV.

As for the latter part of my post, it appears that you are promoting the idea that Ezekiel 13 has yet to be fulfilled. Is that what you believe?

I believe it is currently taking place. I believe there are doctrines that 'promise you salvation' that they can't provide and instead lead you to deception. DEATH and then judgment, not judgment with no death when there are yet days left in this age to live.