Is the human soul immortal?

[Pilgrimshope]

Well you made all these point and did not back ANY with scripture! So yes, I want scriptural support, this is after all a Bible forum.

what do these type of scriptures say ?

“But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

doesn’t that sort of agree with this ?

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if he’s dead and buried and knows nothing how can they then see Abraham in paradise and be asking for help ? Is Jesus just teaching an erroneous doctrine and creating a place that’s not real to confuse us ?

Or what about stuff like this

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:…. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41, 46‬ ‭KJV‬

are we to just say “ Gods too good for such things as Jesus is teaching ? “ or should we understand he’s teaching us truth that we can’t attain unless we listen to what he’s saying ?

“And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. And his Lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:24, 34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Gideon300]

This is a Bible forum, please use scriptures to support your views.

If you insist:
Genesis 2:16
Genesis 3:6
John 10:10
Colossians 2:13

 

[DavidTree]

Lazarus and the rich man... parable. In the midst of a slew of parables
in a chapter full of parables. Jesus taught everything in parables.

I realize not many agree with this. Scripture explicitly states the dead know nothing.

Hell is many times inserted where other words were in the original languages.

Words that initially meant different things.

Search the scriptures to see if in fact Luke 16 (Lazarus/rich man) is a parable.

FACT that will help you = Did our LORD ever give a parable using a Living Soul of His Sons by their factual name???

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Search the scriptures to see if in fact Luke 16 (Lazarus/rich man) is a parable.

FACT that will help you = Did our LORD ever give a parable using a Living Soul of His Sons by their factual name???

if it’s a parable or not doesn’t change what he’s teaching is the thing. Unless our view of a parable is we must ignore what he’s teaching us in a parable. It’s really spiritual wisdom and truth were supposed to take in and ponder upon not reject and ignore

it’s one of the few clear teachings of what happens at death one man is taken into the kingdom the other is buried and still well aware being tormented in hell.

What is a parable if it’s not a spiritual teaching of something important regarding the kingdom ?

I don’t think it’s a parable or an actual account of two men but just a spiritual teaching from Jesus about what happens at the first death to the living spirit.

I think they are saying this already happened

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so apparently the dead have already been delivered from hell and death ( which shows they aren’t the same by the way )


“death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:”

but I think the argument is the resurrection of the dead already happened and the white throne jidgement which means Jesus already returned also …..not sure scripture is where any of that actually comes from though

 

[DavidTree]

if it’s a parable or not doesn’t change what he’s teaching is the thing. Unless our view of a parable is we must ignore what he’s teaching us in a parable. It’s really spiritual wisdom and truth were supposed to take in and ponder upon not reject and ignore

it’s one of the few clear teachings of what happens at death one man is taken into the kingdom the other is buried and still well aware being tormented in hell.

What is a parable if it’s not a spiritual teaching of something important regarding the kingdom ?

I don’t think it’s a parable or an actual account of two men but just a spiritual teaching from Jesus about what happens at the first death to the living spirit.

I think they are saying this already happened

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so apparently the dead have already been delivered from hell and death ( which shows they aren’t the same by the way )


“death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:”

but I think the argument is the resurrection of the dead already happened and the white throne jidgement which means Jesus already returned also …..not sure scripture is where any of that actually comes from though

Where and how (we know how=religion) can anyone who reads and studies scripture believe:
#1 that the LORD has already completed His Second Coming (Antichrist destroyed at His Coming)
#2 the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ has been completed (Saints are still dying- everyday)
#3 and the GWJ has been completed (New Heaven and New Earth and New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Where and how (we know how=religion) can anyone who reads and studies scripture believe:
#1 that the LORD has already completed His Second Coming (Antichrist destroyed at His Coming)
#2 the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ has been completed (Saints are still dying- everyday)
#3 and the GWJ has been completed

I’m not sure but at the same moment thier saying it’s not in scripture.

I think it went south way back when I mentioned this part honestly

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

V this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’ve noticed a lot of people want to say the blood and that’s good the blood of atonement is essential but when it comes to the word Jesus preached is Gods eternal judgement , it often becomes contention because it corrects our wrong thinking and actions and leads to repentance bekng a main and essential part of it all

 

[crossnote]

You got the wrong verse. 1 Timothy 6:16

I quoted vss. 16-17, but thanks for your backup and no I'm not KJVO...and regarding vs 16...

(AMP) Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example or pattern for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
(AMP+) Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example or pattern for those who N1would believe in Him for eternal life.
(AMPC) But I obtained mercy for the reason that in me, as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might show forth and display all His perfect long-suffering and patience for an example to [encourage] those who would thereafter believe on Him for [the gaining of] eternal life.
(AMPC+) But I obtained mercy for the reason that in me, as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might show forth and display all His perfect long-suffering and patience for an example to [encourage] those who would thereafter believe on Him for [the gaining of] eternal life.
(CSB) But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst of them, Christ Jesus might demonstrate his extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in him for eternal life.
(ESV) But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.
(ESV+) But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.
(HCSB) But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst of them, Christ Jesus might demonstrate His extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
(KJV) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(KJV+) HowbeitG235 for this causeG1223 G5124 I obtained mercy,G1653 thatG2443 inG1722 meG1698 firstG4413 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 might shew forthG1731 allG3956 longsuffering,G3115 forG4314 a patternG5296 to them which should hereafterG3195 believeG4100 onG1909 himG846 toG1519 lifeG2222 everlasting.G166
(NAS95) Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
(NAS95+) YetG235 for thisG3778 reasonG1223 I R1foundG1653 mercyG1653, soG2443 that in me as the foremostG4413, JesusG2424 ChristG5547 might R2demonstrateG1731 His perfectG537a patienceG3115 as an exampleG5296 for thoseG3588 N1who wouldG3195 believeG4100 in Him for eternalG166 lifeG2222.
(NASB) Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost sinner Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
(NASB+) YetG235 for thisG3778 reasonG1223 I R1foundG1653 mercyG1653, soG2443 thatG2443 in me as the foremostG4413 sinner JesusG2424 ChristG5547 might R2demonstrateG1731 His perfectG537a patienceG3115 as an exampleG5296 for thoseG3588 N1who wouldG3195 believeG4100 in Him for eternalG166 lifeG2222.
(NET) But here is why I was treated with mercy: so that in me as the worst, Christ Jesus could demonstrate his utmost patience, as an example for those who are going to believe in him for eternal life.
(NET+) ButG235 here is whyG1223 G3778 I was treated with mercyG1653: so N20thatG2443 inG1722 meG1473 as the N21worstG4413, ChristG5547 JesusG2424 could demonstrateG1731 his utmostG537 patienceG3115, asG4314 an exampleG5296 for those who are going toG3195 believeG4100 inG1909 himG846 forG1519 eternalG166 lifeG2222.
(NKJV) However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
(TLV) Yet for this reason I was shown mercy—so that in me as the foremost, Messiah Yeshua might demonstrate His complete patience, as an example for those about to put their trust in Him for eternal life.
(Weymouth) But mercy was shown me in order that in me as the foremost of sinners Christ Jesus might display the fulness of His long-suffering patience as an example to encourage those who would afterwards be resting their faith on Him with a view to the Life of the Ages.

all 1Tim6:16

 

[Artios1]

FALSE. Why do people try to pervert Bible truth in critical matters? (And there is no need to throw "transmigration" into the mix).

I did not give definition to the soul …..God did, in His Word. So if I am perverting the definition …You need to talk to the Author.

Transmigration came from the same wellspring that perpetrated the lie of the soul being eternal....

Nimrod initiated the belief in Babylon. Later, Zoroaster in Assyrian-Babylonian culture… embraced the immortality of the soul. The Persians believed in disembodied souls. Daoism adopted the belief of the Chinese culture. Many of the ancient cultures accepted the idea of immortality of the soul.
And from there we could go through Plato 400 BC to Thomas Aquinas to the RCC Lateran Council in 1513 Where the decree was
Whereas some have dared to assert concerning the nature of reasonable soul that it is mortal, we, with the approbation of the sacred council do condemn and reprobate all those who assert that the intellectual soul is mortal, seen, according to the Canon of Pope Clement V, that the soul is immortal, and we decree that all who adhere to like erroneous assertions shall be shunned and punished as heretics
Anyone who dissented was shunned as heretics. The were turned over to the civil authorities and history records the atrocities these dissenters endured for believing the Word of God….that’s religion for you.
It was not until Martin Luther declared that the Bible did not teach immortality of the soul (defense, proposition #27)

2. The human being consists of body, soul, and spirit (1 Thess 5:23). Upon physical death (the first death) the soul and spirit are separated from the body. While bodies are interred in graves, the souls and spirits either go to (a) Heaven to be with Christ or (b) Hades to await their final judgment.

So what is the purpose of the resurrection......Judgment?


I think I will take the time and post something on hell and death. I know your take on hell from another post ...so you will definitely not like my post on those.

 

[glen55]

God’s Word declares that “the soul that sinneth it shall die” (Ezek 18:4, 20). When a man dies, “his breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish” (Psa. 146:4). God told Adam, “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Gen. 2:17). It was not merely Adam’s body that during that thousand-year day died, but Adam himself—the human soul or being died in every respect. That which is immortal is not subject to death; it is death-proof, indestructible. But Adam was mortal, hence could die. The Hebrew word translated “soul” is found hundreds of times in the Bible. Surely if the human soul were immortal God would have said so at least once! The term “immortal soul” is not found in the Bible. There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality. Immortality is only for those in heaven who are of the Divine nature. Everlasting life will never be possessed by any of the human race except as a gift from God. Space will not permit a further discussion here.

The term death like all other words like tree and animals and all other words that doesn't represent secular history nor time thought by flesh and blood that is only not able to see inside their conscience that is reminded nothing impossible for a God who created all things by Imagination we all have its ability, we all have moral imprission natural minds that is based on what is good and evil , the same mind is able to perform both good and evil by thoughts first then physical performance that is responsive returns on who thought only but still suffering or blessings.
Mortal is also with Immortals comes from same minds from impossible to possible, those are how you think that can't inherit or you can by power outside or in you is hard to except being immortal by natural death happening at storm, floods, attacks, fire, hate, fear, etc.....................but possible is a powerful thought natural mind is not able to prove it until it experiences not just reading about it is beyond science to understand Imagination we all have proving reality and then encounter after Spirit we all have become waking to possible only it can in us. Nothing outside is nothing but shadows compared to invisible Spirit that isn't worried about death defeated easy once you wake from dream that buts everyone called sleep and death is mortal dust.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So what is the purpose of the resurrection......Judgment?

If you do not even know the purpose of the resurrection, why are you engaging in this discussion?

1. The very fact that there will be two resurrections proves that souls are imperishable.

2. The very fact that God gives the believer eternal life means that souls are eternal.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you do not even know the purpose of the resurrection, why are you engaging in this discussion?

1. The very fact that there will be two resurrections proves that souls are imperishable.

2. The very fact that God gives the believer eternal life means that souls are eternal.

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ( body )

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;( spirit )

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44-45, 49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[DavidTree]

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ( body )

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;( spirit )

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44-45, 49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What do you think(according to scripture of course) happens to the soul of a man when he dies?

 

[Edify]

This is a simple problem with a simple answer. Whenever there seems to be a conflict in scripture, it is ALWAYS a contextual issue. The context hasn't been sought out.
1Tim 6: 14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
V14 - the person is Christ.
V15 - Christ is the only Soverign - He is the only God. This verse is stating what the OT had said all thru it, that God is the only true & living God, there is none other.
V16 - a continuation of V15 - He is the only God that has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see.
All this is saying is that Christ is the only real, living & immortal God. None of the false gods are immortal.

The story of the rich man IS NOT a parable, because parables have meaning hidden from the world. This story is 100% literal, meaning the places & people are real. There are NO hidden meanings.

IF there was immediate destruction in the Lake of fire, God would have to apologize to all of the OT sinners who has been suffering in Hell for 2000-6000 years burning in its flames because Tribulation sinners would have hardly any time of suffering in hell in comparison to them. Souls are eternal... they receive eternal life or eternal death & torment. Both judgments are eternal.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What do you think(according to scripture of course) happens to the soul of a man when he dies?

a soul is born in every human , the flesh dies , the spirit lives the soul is carried by the spirit. A soul is what we become as children in the womb. The flesh body is only a temporary part of it like a tabernacle we dwell in for this earth.

the spirit either goes to be with the lord , remains in the earth with the body in sleep , or goes into torment for the wicked.

the spiritual body and soul are intertwined the flesh is expendable and temporal

just my own opinion though. A soul is what we are and we have a spiritual body that carries it and doesn’t die with the flesh we have a first appointment to death of our flesh , and those who reject Christ have a second appointment to death for the soul. However one defines that

 

[DavidTree]

I guess what I am getting at is that hell is believed to be where people go following judgment, and judgment is future. Of course I do understand that we all go to the grave, and hell is sometimes a mistranslation of that. Also that the Lake of Fire is the final destination for unbelievers. Still, you quote verses that say resurrected to damnation, and/or shall not come into condemnation. So it seems those have not yet been damned, even though they are said by some to be in hell suffering. No biggie. I just wondered if you had considered the seeming contradiction. I don't believe the dead know anything. Scripture says as much.

Judgment can be BOTH instant and distant.

Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did God lie?

Why did Adam not find his wife Eve stone dead at the base of Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

In fact, we do see that both Adam & Eve died that day - Genesis ch3 and Romans 5:12-14

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

 

[Mem]

I think I will take the time and post something on hell and death. I know your take on hell from another post ...so you will definitely not like my post on those.

Looking forward to it, unless the summary of it is that death is not death.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is a simple problem with a simple answer. Whenever there seems to be a conflict in scripture, it is ALWAYS a contextual issue. The context hasn't been sought out.
1Tim 6: 14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
V14 - the person is Christ.
V15 - Christ is the only Soverign - He is the only God. This verse is stating what the OT had said all thru it, that God is the only true & living God, there is none other.
V16 - a continuation of V15 - He is the only God that has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see.
All this is saying is that Christ is the only real, living & immortal God. None of the false gods are immortal.

The story of the rich man IS NOT a parable, because parables have meaning hidden from the world. This story is 100% literal, meaning the places & people are real. There are NO hidden meanings.

IF there was immediate destruction in the Lake of fire, God would have to apologize to all of the OT sinners who has been suffering in Hell for 2000-6000 years burning in its flames because Tribulation sinners would have hardly any time of suffering in hell in comparison to them. Souls are eternal... they receive eternal life or eternal death & torment. Both judgments are eternal.

there’s a spiritual prison for many of the ot dead disobedient

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s also in the ot a spiritual sleep for Gods people when they passed away

“And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.”
‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭7:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those dead in prison or the “ pit” of the ot had the gospel preached to them after Christ died As God foretold

“And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:22‬ ‭

When Jesus came it changed everything those in the prisons heard the gospel after he died by his spirit , those saints who slept rose up

hell is a place of torment within the prisons and is brought to light with the gospel

So those who slept

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And those in the prisons of Sheol

“but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; “

and those in hell I’m the end

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hell hasn’t been emptied yet if it’s dead nor have those dead in Christ risen yet they won’t until the end.

But the important part is the promise of the gospel of life and not death to stay out of those groups

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s more than heaven or hell there’s sleep , prison and also hell most importantly there’s heaven with the lord for the believers of the gospel and disciples of Jesus Christ.

 

[Mem]

Lets Look at the apparent contradiction of John 11:25 and 26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”…

vv. 23-4 introduces the subject of the conversation in the context of Lazarus' death:
“Your brother will rise again,” Jesus told her. Martha replied, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
The resurrection.
And Jesus affirms "I am the resurrection and the life."

The next tow statements Jesus makes appear to be at odds with one another apart from a logical thought progression rather than having to perform complex mental gymnastics:

"Whoever believe in Me will live, even though he dies (present tense). Jesus is speaking in future tense here and so lets follow Him to the future, and stay with Him... And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die (The resurrection to life!) Do you believe this?"...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Judgment can be BOTH instant and distant.

Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did God lie?

Why did Adam not find his wife Eve stone dead at the base of Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

In fact, we do see that both Adam & Eve died that day - Genesis ch3 and Romans 5:12-14

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

“Why did Adam not find his wife Eve stone dead at the base of Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?”

God made atonement for them and covered thier sin

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Judgment can be BOTH instant and distant.”

that’s exactly what the gospel is Gods judgement offered now to all of we accept it we’ll have remission of sins and partake of christs resurrection . if we reject it it will judge us the last day at the 2nd resurrection.

this is actually something Moses began to say , Jesus proclaims and Peter witnesses is true Jesus was always going to be the judge and offer it beforehand to anyone who would hear and believe him, and it would then judge all who rejected him in the last day

we have Gods eternal judgement in christs words and until the end can accept repent and believe and have our sins remitted

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter witnesses this also that this is Jesus

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And of course this is one of Jesus main claims try at he is the one Moses was talking about the one God raised up to speak his words of life and judgement

showing us if we reject his words like. Less and Peter said there

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

Even Moses knew Jesus would come and judge the world by the gospel we can accept the gospel now and be saved or reject it and be judged in the end by it. We want to be the people who just hear and believe and live in him

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have to be among the dead raised at the end for judgement we can accept the gospel now and live with him as soon as we leave our body the judgement is now in the world , those who refuse it will still have to answer for it at the white throne

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Lets Look at the apparent contradiction of John 11:25 and 26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”…

vv. 23-4 introduces the subject of the conversation in the context of Lazarus' death:
“Your brother will rise again,” Jesus told her. Martha replied, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
The resurrection.
And Jesus affirms "I am the resurrection and the life."

The next tow statements Jesus makes appear to be at odds with one another apart from a logical thought progression rather than having to perform complex mental gymnastics:

"Whoever believe in Me will live, even though he dies (present tense). Jesus is speaking in future tense here and so lets follow Him to the future, and stay with Him... And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die (The resurrection to life!) Do you believe this?"...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah we don’t want to think logically we want to have faith and believe what God said.

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬l

faith comes when we’re willing to accept what Jesus said not logically work it out or make it make sense in the natural not by our understanding or sight but by faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

the same word that raised Lazarus promises life to his disciples that they never see death we want to live

but also death isn’t the end for all who miss this , there are those dead in Christ also who fell asleep who are raised and caught up with the others when he returns from heaven. There are living in Christ and those who didn’t hear the word of life and embrace it by faith they aren’t lost they just have to wait in rest