Jesus laying down His life vs. Him being murdered

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pottersclay

Guest
#21
#21
Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice. I agree with the op that murder was because of the hearts of the Pharisees.
The willingness of Jesus trusting God with his very life should speak volumes to the saints.
The prayer in the garden the night before asking if there was another way, then submitting to the will of the father shows us a passion, far beyound measure.
We often quote the ol saying "let go let God" but have we ever been considered that it might cause us pain and death?
For if God did not spare his only begotten but it pleased him to bruise him what measure of trust and faith do we have?
For only in the company of a silent angel he surrendered to the will of the father.
This is the faithfulness he has toward us. The love, compassion, and loyalty to his bride.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#22
Feb 20, 2021
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#22
Anyone who believes the Jesus wanted to die, which implies suicide, is flat-out denying scripture when it tells us that Jesus has nearly begged His Father that this "cup" (of death) be taken from him.

The solution to this absurd assertion is to begin reading the Bible.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#23
Jul 12, 2021
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#23
He was first a living sacrifice: He put His own will under that of His Father's before the cross.

The Father's will led Him to the cross and His death. This act, because He had no sin yet Death took him, put Death and Hell to shame: they had no right to kill Him or to keep Him. Consequently, He was resurrected with the life and power the Father intended for man at the beginning. Now, all who are in-Christ are the sons of God: people who likewise have been transformed by God's eternal power.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#24
May 23, 2012
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#24
the context of Biblical murder is shedding innocent blood. The crucifixion of our Lord was done to an innocent man who is also God. That is murder. however He allowed himself to be taken wilfully.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#25
Jul 3, 2015
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#25
NotmebutHim said:
Was Jesus murdered, or did He lay down His life of His own accord?
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Both! :D

Luke 24:20
Our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death, and they crucified Him.

Acts 2:23
He was delivered up by God's set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by
the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.

1 Thessalonians 2 : 14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea
are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have
of the Jews: 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and
they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they
might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
 
NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
#27
May 17, 2015
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#27
Thanks to all who have replied so far.

Like I mentioned in my OP, I believe that it was both as well. :cool:
 
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BeeThePeace

Active member
#28
May 2, 2022
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#28
NotmebutHim said:
Was Jesus murdered, or did He lay down His life of His own accord?

I would say that it's both, because the Scriptures don't contradict themselves.

John 10:18 (NKJV):

"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Acts 5:30 (NKJV):

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree."

Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV):

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

I believe the point that Peter was making was that the Jewish leaders hated Jesus in their hearts well before they decided to have Him crucified. Like Jesus Himself said, no one takes (or can take) His life from Him. Therefore, although Christ wasn't crucified against His will, those who wanted it done had "murdered" Him in their hearts already.

$0.02
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Both, I think.

Certainly the Sanhedrins purpose was to have him murdered by Rome rather than their own hand just before Passover.

Jesus also laid his life down with purpose because it was the will of the father and the purpose for which he was prophesied in the old testament and conceived per the new.


Runningman said:
Ever heard the term "suicide mission?"
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Wrong community. This is a Christian Bible Discussion site. Not an atheists bible meaning mockery forum.

Please adapt your behavior accordingly and to the former. For I can only speak for myself, the latter showing its face here is getting old and quite pathetic in its dark hunger for our attention.
 
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BeeThePeace

Active member
#29
May 2, 2022
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#29
CS1 said:
the context of Biblical murder is shedding innocent blood. The crucifixion of our Lord was done to an innocent man who is also God. That is murder. however He allowed himself to be taken wilfully.
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God cannot be killed.
The sin of the betrayers, the Sanhedrin, was such as they'd wish they'd never been born.

While Jesus' death and resurrection unto the continuation of his ministry for another 40 days demonstrated to all who saw him the truth of his good news of eternal life. Both in and through him.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#30
May 23, 2012
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#30
BeeThePeace said:
God cannot be killed.
The sin of the betrayers, the Sanhedrin, was such as they'd wish they'd never been born.

While Jesus' death and resurrection unto the continuation of his ministry for another 40 days demonstrated to all who saw him the truth of his good news of eternal life. Both in and through him.
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God can do anything and God cannot lie. HE said he would BE KILLED and raised on the third day.
 
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BeeThePeace

Active member
#31
May 2, 2022
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#31
CS1 said:
God can do anything and God cannot lie. HE said he would BE KILLED and raised on the third day.
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I never said God lied. Please don't accuse me of something I did not do. Thank you.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#32
#32
Another interesting thought...
Jesus knew all of this from the foundation of the Earth.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#33
Jul 3, 2015
60,144
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#33
JAPOV said:
Another interesting thought...
Jesus knew all of this from the foundation of the Earth.
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All things are sustained by Him. Think on that... as He was being tried, beaten,
spat upon, and crucified, at every moment He was sustaining all that is :)
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#34
Jul 12, 2021
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#34
JAPOV said:
Another interesting thought...
Jesus knew all of this from the foundation of the Earth.
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Indeed. His death framed creation.

"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
 
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BeeThePeace

Active member
#35
May 2, 2022
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#35
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#36
May 23, 2012
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#36
BeeThePeace said:
I never said God lied. Please don't accuse me of something I did not do. Thank you.
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clearly, you just want to argue and can't read I never said you even suggested you said God lied.

If you are able to see things in context then don't speak to me or with ok :)

thank you
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#37
May 23, 2012
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#37
CS1 said:
clearly, you just want to argue and can't read I never said you even suggested you said God lied.

If you are not able to see things in context then don't speak to me or with ok :)

thank you
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s/p
 
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BeeThePeace

Active member
#38
May 2, 2022
443
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#38
CS1 said:
clearly, you just want to argue and can't read I never said you even suggested you said God lied.

If you are able to see things in context then don't speak to me or with ok :)

thank you
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You're welcome.
 
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