false gospel
- Thread starter 4runner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
actually I agree with you. Eternal life does not begin until death. However the promise of eternal life is the key to faith which God places in the hearts of His people. Here are a few Scripture verses:
Ezekiel 33:11-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’
The Fairness of God’s Judgment
12 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the children of your people: ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’ 13 When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. 14 Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 “Yet the children of your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ But it is their way which is not fair! 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. 19 But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it. 20 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, I will judge every one of you according to his own ways.”
Ezekiel 33:11-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’
The Fairness of God’s Judgment
12 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the children of your people: ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’ 13 When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. 14 Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 “Yet the children of your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ But it is their way which is not fair! 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. 19 But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it. 20 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, I will judge every one of you according to his own ways.”
A
No the blessed hope is the blessed hope
the return of Christ is the return of Christ
and although the blessed hope looks forward to the return of Christ they are two.
For instance Christ could return to those with no hope. Yet He will still come.
The point is the three needful things we have for our lives is faith hope and love.
To attack that hope weakens the saint, for its built on the promice of God.
If your point is that there is no easy believism than cool.
I
So is the following a fair description?
Arminianism is a school of soteriological thought within Protestant Christianity based on the theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609)[1] and his historic followers, the Remonstrants. The doctrine's acceptance stretches through much of Christianity from the early arguments between Athanasius and Origen, to Augustine of Hippo's defense of "original sin."
Dutch Arminianism was originally articulated in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers and submitted to the Dutch states general. The Synod of Dort (1618–19) was called by the states general to pass upon the Remonstrance. The five points of the Remonstrance asserted that:
Since the 16th century, Christians of many sects including the Baptists (See A History of the Baptists Third Edition by Robert G. Torbet) have been influenced by Arminian views. So have the Methodists, the Congregationalists of the early New England colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the Universalists and Unitarians in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Arminianism is most accurately used to define those who affirm the original beliefs of Jacobus Arminius himself, but the term can also be understood as an umbrella for a larger grouping of ideas including those of Hugo Grotius, John Wesley and others. There are two primary perspectives on how the system is applied in detail: Classical Arminianism, which sees Arminius as its figurehead, and Wesleyan Arminianism, which sees John Wesley as its figurehead. Wesleyan Arminianism is sometimes synonymous with Methodism. In addition, Arminianism is often misrepresented by some of its critics to include Semipelagianism or even Pelagianism, though proponents of both primary perspectives vehemently deny these claims.[3]
Within the broad scope of the history of Christian theology, Arminianism is closely related to Calvinism (or Reformed theology), and the two systems share both history and many doctrines. Nonetheless, they are often viewed as rivals within evangelicalism because of their disagreement over details of the doctrines of divine predestination and salvation.[4]
Arminianism is a school of soteriological thought within Protestant Christianity based on the theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609)[1] and his historic followers, the Remonstrants. The doctrine's acceptance stretches through much of Christianity from the early arguments between Athanasius and Origen, to Augustine of Hippo's defense of "original sin."
Dutch Arminianism was originally articulated in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers and submitted to the Dutch states general. The Synod of Dort (1618–19) was called by the states general to pass upon the Remonstrance. The five points of the Remonstrance asserted that:
- election (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the rational faith or nonfaith of man;
- the Atonement, while qualitatively adequate for all men, was efficacious only for the man of faith;
- unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to God’s will;
- grace is not irresistible; and
- believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.
Since the 16th century, Christians of many sects including the Baptists (See A History of the Baptists Third Edition by Robert G. Torbet) have been influenced by Arminian views. So have the Methodists, the Congregationalists of the early New England colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the Universalists and Unitarians in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Arminianism is most accurately used to define those who affirm the original beliefs of Jacobus Arminius himself, but the term can also be understood as an umbrella for a larger grouping of ideas including those of Hugo Grotius, John Wesley and others. There are two primary perspectives on how the system is applied in detail: Classical Arminianism, which sees Arminius as its figurehead, and Wesleyan Arminianism, which sees John Wesley as its figurehead. Wesleyan Arminianism is sometimes synonymous with Methodism. In addition, Arminianism is often misrepresented by some of its critics to include Semipelagianism or even Pelagianism, though proponents of both primary perspectives vehemently deny these claims.[3]
Within the broad scope of the history of Christian theology, Arminianism is closely related to Calvinism (or Reformed theology), and the two systems share both history and many doctrines. Nonetheless, they are often viewed as rivals within evangelicalism because of their disagreement over details of the doctrines of divine predestination and salvation.[4]
A
i think a lot of people misunderstand what righteousness is. It is the Faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. It is not our righteousness we are clothed in but Christ's. People have to continue in that faith and endure till the end and not be seduced by this world.
glove in hand analogy? mmm never heard that one....
thanks IQ for the defining the terms not found in the Bible, I tend to get a little lost
glove in hand analogy? mmm never heard that one....
thanks IQ for the defining the terms not found in the Bible, I tend to get a little lost
Last edited:
I
So is the following a fair description?
Arminianism is a school of soteriological thought within Protestant Christianity based on the theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609)[1] and his historic followers, the Remonstrants. The doctrine's acceptance stretches through much of Christianity from the early arguments between Athanasius and Origen, to Augustine of Hippo's defense of "original sin."
Dutch Arminianism was originally articulated in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers and submitted to the Dutch states general. The Synod of Dort (1618–19) was called by the states general to pass upon the Remonstrance. The five points of the Remonstrance asserted that:
Since the 16th century, Christians of many sects including the Baptists (See A History of the Baptists Third Edition by Robert G. Torbet) have been influenced by Arminian views. So have the Methodists, the Congregationalists of the early New England colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the Universalists and Unitarians in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Arminianism is most accurately used to define those who affirm the original beliefs of Jacobus Arminius himself, but the term can also be understood as an umbrella for a larger grouping of ideas including those of Hugo Grotius, John Wesley and others. There are two primary perspectives on how the system is applied in detail: Classical Arminianism, which sees Arminius as its figurehead, and Wesleyan Arminianism, which sees John Wesley as its figurehead. Wesleyan Arminianism is sometimes synonymous with Methodism. In addition, Arminianism is often misrepresented by some of its critics to include Semipelagianism or even Pelagianism, though proponents of both primary perspectives vehemently deny these claims.[3]
Within the broad scope of the history of Christian theology, Arminianism is closely related to Calvinism (or Reformed theology), and the two systems share both history and many doctrines. Nonetheless, they are often viewed as rivals within evangelicalism because of their disagreement over details of the doctrines of divine predestination and salvation.[4]
Arminianism is a school of soteriological thought within Protestant Christianity based on the theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609)[1] and his historic followers, the Remonstrants. The doctrine's acceptance stretches through much of Christianity from the early arguments between Athanasius and Origen, to Augustine of Hippo's defense of "original sin."
Dutch Arminianism was originally articulated in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers and submitted to the Dutch states general. The Synod of Dort (1618–19) was called by the states general to pass upon the Remonstrance. The five points of the Remonstrance asserted that:
- election (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the rational faith or nonfaith of man;
- the Atonement, while qualitatively adequate for all men, was efficacious only for the man of faith;
- unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to God’s will;
- grace is not irresistible; and
- believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.
Since the 16th century, Christians of many sects including the Baptists (See A History of the Baptists Third Edition by Robert G. Torbet) have been influenced by Arminian views. So have the Methodists, the Congregationalists of the early New England colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the Universalists and Unitarians in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Arminianism is most accurately used to define those who affirm the original beliefs of Jacobus Arminius himself, but the term can also be understood as an umbrella for a larger grouping of ideas including those of Hugo Grotius, John Wesley and others. There are two primary perspectives on how the system is applied in detail: Classical Arminianism, which sees Arminius as its figurehead, and Wesleyan Arminianism, which sees John Wesley as its figurehead. Wesleyan Arminianism is sometimes synonymous with Methodism. In addition, Arminianism is often misrepresented by some of its critics to include Semipelagianism or even Pelagianism, though proponents of both primary perspectives vehemently deny these claims.[3]
Within the broad scope of the history of Christian theology, Arminianism is closely related to Calvinism (or Reformed theology), and the two systems share both history and many doctrines. Nonetheless, they are often viewed as rivals within evangelicalism because of their disagreement over details of the doctrines of divine predestination and salvation.[4]
Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.
I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.
I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.
E
If one teaches you can lose your salvation. They teach a works based Gospel. The only one could lose it is to not do enough works. The proper works. Or the wrong works (sin)
There is no denying it. You can not work, or earn it to get it. And you can not work hard enough or not enough to keep it. Paul taught veheminately against this works based Gospel.
Hand in glove. I am a glove, and Christ is the hand. By myself I can do nothing, but through the indwelling of Christ, I can do everything that Christ can do.
E
Eternal life begins when one is saved. John makes it clear. As Does Jesus, As did Paul.
Has, Have and other present tense verbs means one has it. It is not a future thing. You either have it or you do not. If you do not have it. You have no hope and are not saved and only heading in the wrong direction
Has, Have and other present tense verbs means one has it. It is not a future thing. You either have it or you do not. If you do not have it. You have no hope and are not saved and only heading in the wrong direction
Wen I was 16 I have burried a man abt age 25 myrtered for his faith in front of his 5 years old daughter n his wailing wife,i was in tears wen I was asked by that lil gurl y r u burrying my dad...i dont beleive in christianity da only wears a t shirt n calls everyone a preacher of false gosple just bcuz they listen to a cool preacher...u can preach abt eternity or its security or call it a false gosple I domt care,Do u PREACH CHRIST...my mum always says this we don need american christianity cuz they preach everything but christ...
Much love
Much love
E
Then John lied. Because he said you have it.
Jesus lied when he said whoever believes has it.
Endures to the end is a passage which speaks of those alive in the tribulation enduring till the end of the period. Whoever endures and does not fall to the antichrist will be saved through the tribulation.
PS. Enduring is work. Your teaching a works based Gospel my friend!
Jesus lied when he said whoever believes has it.
Endures to the end is a passage which speaks of those alive in the tribulation enduring till the end of the period. Whoever endures and does not fall to the antichrist will be saved through the tribulation.
PS. Enduring is work. Your teaching a works based Gospel my friend!
A
how is salvation obtained in the first place?
most people do not understand that and unless people are first saved by being born again then they can not lose something they never had.
I think it is important to make a distinction between salvation and sanctification. one is eternal and happens upon belief and confession of Jesus as Lord and Savior in the heart and by the mouth. the other is a life long process that God works in the lives of His people.
most people do not understand that and unless people are first saved by being born again then they can not lose something they never had.
I think it is important to make a distinction between salvation and sanctification. one is eternal and happens upon belief and confession of Jesus as Lord and Savior in the heart and by the mouth. the other is a life long process that God works in the lives of His people.
Last edited:
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
If is the biggest two letter word ever. If we are not moved away from our faith clearly shows that we can
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
If is the biggest two letter word ever. If we are not moved away from our faith clearly shows that we can