Men, give us your definition please

[allforfun]

What do you think of when you think of "submission wife"?

What do you think of when you think of "Head of Household"?

There is a lot of conjuncture of what those terms mean, but what does it mean to you? I open the floor to you specifically so we can have a deeper conversation on this topic.

I do please ask that any over used scripture be kept at hand with this, but I realize I can not control that.

Have fun with this this. Enlighten us.

 

[zeroturbulence]

I haven't really thought much about it. I'd like a woman who is more my equal than submissive. When I think of a submissive wife I think of a geisha girl bowing to her master. (I know the bible says submit to your husband, and husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church).

Head of household to me means the main breadwinner, the one who has final say on big decisions, the one who takes responsibility for his family's well being. The one who the family can always rely on to get them through tough times. Their rock.

 

[mpaper345]

The Bible says the head of Christ is God,and the head of man is Christ,and the head of the woman is man,and women ought to have power on their heads because of the angels,for the women are above the angels.

This is the authority structure of God on earth,so that things get done in an orderly fashion,and things run smoothly.

But some people take this ought of context and and act is if the man has leadership in areas he does not,like the world will when they say listen to me,wanting the women to obey something that is not in the man's jurisdiction and in a wrong way.

When the man is the head of woman,it means all things pertaining to God,that the man is to lead the household in the ways of God,and not after the lusts of the man in a bossy fashion,so it is like the woman is listening to God,and the man has no arrogance about it.

Also the woman is a help mate and can participate,but the man is to lead the household in the ways of God,and not in the fashion that everything has to be what I want to do as far as activities for that would not be fair.They cannot be the head as far as the world does things,where men act unseemly towards their wives.That authority structure of God does not sit well with the world,as both man and woman and children all want to exalt themselves above each other,wanting their own way,and that authority structure is not for the world,but those that are with Christ because the world does not want it.

Jesus said that whoever is the greatest,let him be a servant,like Jesus who is the greatest became a servant,so the man being the head of the woman would mean that the man is the servant of the woman and the household to do the will of God,which Jesus said the man is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church.

God has to have an authority structure like the world has an authority structure in government,school,business,and such,but when observing the world,men,and maybe some who claim Christ,act unseemingly in that situation,out of arrogance,or control,it would make some women have the wrong impression of what God means by the man being the head of the household,but the man being the head is only leading the household in the ways of God,like a servant of the Lord,and not out of arrogance or control on the man's part,and to be a servant as Christ was a servant when on earth.

Me personally,I have never been one to want to control a woman,because how can you have a loving relationship with a woman if you want to control her,then she is like a material object.
Some men in the world think I am the man,we are going here tonight,we are doing this tonight,we are eating this,and buying that,and no back talk,but that is the world,and not what God means,but the man is to lead in the ways of God,which is all love,like Christ loves the Church,in which Christ was a servant and did not boss people about what to do but follow God and His ways,and the woman does not have to listen if it is not in accordance with God in how He should act,but listen to God.

 

[kayem77]

The Bible says the head of Christ is God,and the head of man is Christ,and the head of the woman is man,and women ought to have power on their heads because of the angels,for the women are above the angels.

This is the authority structure of God on earth,so that things get done in an orderly fashion,and things run smoothly.

But some people take this ought of context and and act is if the man has leadership in areas he does not,like the world will when they say listen to me,wanting the women to obey something that is not in the man's jurisdiction and in a wrong way.

When the man is the head of woman,it means all things pertaining to God,that the man is to lead the household in the ways of God,and not after the lusts of the man in a bossy fashion,so it is like the woman is listening to God,and the man has no arrogance about it.

Also the woman is a help mate and can participate,but the man is to lead the household in the ways of God,and not in the fashion that everything has to be what I want to do as far as activities for that would not be fair.They cannot be the head as far as the world does things,where men act unseemly towards their wives.That authority structure of God does not sit well with the world,as both man and woman and children all want to exalt themselves above each other,wanting their own way,and that authority structure is not for the world,but those that are with Christ because the world does not want it.

Jesus said that whoever is the greatest,let him be a servant,like Jesus who is the greatest became a servant,so the man being the head of the woman would mean that the man is the servant of the woman and the household to do the will of God,which Jesus said the man is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church.

God has to have an authority structure like the world has an authority structure in government,school,business,and such,but when observing the world,men,and maybe some who claim Christ,act unseemingly in that situation,out of arrogance,or control,it would make some women have the wrong impression of what God means by the man being the head of the household,but the man being the head is only leading the household in the ways of God,like a servant of the Lord,and not out of arrogance or control on the man's part,and to be a servant as Christ was a servant when on earth.

Me personally,I have never been one to want to control a woman,because how can you have a loving relationship with a woman if you want to control her,then she is like a material object.
Some men in the world think I am the man,we are going here tonight,we are doing this tonight,we are eating this,and buying that,and no back talk,but that is the world,and not what God means,but the man is to lead in the ways of God,which is all love,like Christ loves the Church,in which Christ was a servant and did not boss people about what to do but follow God and His ways,and the woman does not have to listen if it is not in accordance with God in how He should act,but listen to God.

I think you explained very well, in the ways of God; not about dinner,movies on Friday, where to go next vacations,etc. Good, mpaper

 

[1still_waters]

Submission means that ultimately, my wife wouldn't argue with me and cause conflict after I made a decision for me/us/family.

Head of household, means that ultimately, the man is responsible for making decisions and leading and protecting the family, to the best of his ability, with God's help.

I think the rolls of 'submission' and 'head of household', need to be with the illustration of Christ and the church as the backdrop. Without that example, submission and head of the household can allow a man to get in the flesh and become domineering to the point he Lords over and oppresses the wife/kids, due to his God given position.

Jesus rules his 'church' and we submit to it. But Jesus also gave himself and protects the church. Submission and leadership can only function when it's done with the example of Christ and his church.

 

[phil36]

It would be good if we can define what we mean.

What is equality and what is headship? How can equality be reconciled with headship, if it can be?

The only way we can do this is from scripture, or, we will fail at every point and follow the worlds pattern of sexuality. The best example is from Genesis, forthe rest of sexuality in scripture has this as it's foundation.

But first I think a definition is called for:

male -female equality: Man and woman are equal in the sense that they both share in God's image.

Male headship: in a partnership of two spiritually equal human beings, man and woman, the man bears the primary responsibility to lead the partnership in a God glorifying direction. It is the definition of headship that causes most problems, no one has a problem with male and female being equal even the most ardent feminist would not argue with the equality assumption.

Headship is modelled on our Lord Jesus, who gave his life for us, the antithesis of headship is domination. Domination is the assertion of a mans will over a womans, weilding auhtority even over her spiritual equality, her rights and value. This is wrong and not male headship.

Genesis 1:27-28

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

This shows the equality in the 'image of God' (we could debate all day what this actually means, but, for our purpose it show equality). We have a paradox in the creation account, with the equality of the sexes. In Genesis 2:18-25 we see this more clearly, in Chapter 2 we have an expanded, zoomed in account of the pinnacle of God's creation. God created male and female equally in his image, but He also made the male the head and the female the helper.

A brief note should be added here. Evangelical feminism suggests that male headship was not enforced until the Fall (ch3), with the subsequent judgement on sin. here we have to note that evangelical feminism does not make a distinction betwen headship and domination, they see it as the same thing. However, we shall see that male headship was ordained by God in Genesis Ch 2, before the Fall.

Genesis 2:18-26:

18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”


The man was alone, so why did God parade all the animals infront of Adam? I am sure it was to show Adam that none of these were going to fill the need of a helper, someone so uniquely suitable. On a lighter note I have heard the next part as described as the first medical operation-

21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh.

Can you imagine, God creates the exact requirement need for the man, made to bueatifully shine the glory of God and to fulfil God's purpose, he tells her to stand over there for a moment, then awakens Adam and says.. have a look Adam is this a suitable helper. (no we can see why God paraded the animal before him first).





23 The man said, “This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”


It is this primal event that explains why men and women pair of today: 24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.


So we can see out of all this the woman alone was suitable, rather than othe creatues, 'she alone is suitable. She alone is equal! Eve was equal in the sense that she was his spiritual equal, but in another sense No, she is not for she is, the helper.

This could go and on.. but, this sense of equality yet, sumisive is what we are designed for. Man ws designed to lead for God, woman to help for God.


Male headship is not domination, nor soem form of superiority, but leadership to the glory of God , submisiveness, is not being a slave or doormat to every male whim, it is helping the leader lead. This is how God ordained it to be, and we should attend to that, with our focus fully on Christ.

What brings scorn and rebuk on male headship, is males themselves. For in general we can get carried away with the idea and neglect to bring our partners into flowering roses for the Gospel, it is male and not following the ultimate role model...Christ!

How can a spouse (female) 'properly help' if her will, worth and value is constanlty beaten down, rather than built up in the love of Christ?


Male headship is leader ship, which is servitude for the glory of God... so guys do we lead like servants like Christ?

Anyhow, I think I went over board sorry about that lol.

God bless.

 

[Liamson]

I was just talking to Jullianna about this last night.

I think a submissive wife is like a powerful and beautiful race horse. A horse that could easily demand what it wants, how it wants it and when its suppose to happen but, instead chooses to be a part of a team. This teams is guided together by the Husband and shares in the victory of a fruitful relationship.

I think of a Husband as a Seal Team Leader. He has the Goal in mind of what God would have for him as well as the care and responsibility of those whose life and well being has been entrusted to him. He places the life and well being of those who follow him above his own and would never ask anything of anyone else that he himself would not do.

 

[The_boy]

Contrary to popular belief, submissiveness does not mean that she simply does whatever she's told when she's told to do it. In my opinion and from what I have read, submission should be that she lets her opinion be known, and presents her opinion in a logical, sensible manner and to the best of her ability. If her husband decides otherwise, even presented with her opinion and evidence she SHOULD however accept it with dignity and grace. For OUR part, we men shouldn't be overbearing. We shouldn't hold our authority over our wives' heads. We should behave in a manner that shows our wives that they can genuinely trust us with this important decisions. We should actually listen, and I mean listen as in pay attention, take it to heart, and think about it objectively. As men we are called to guide our families down the path of righteousness as best we can. As men we will make mistakes, and women will be presented the chance to "nag" us. They shouldn't, but like us, they are human too.

Personal opinion alert: I, personally, think each partner should have delegated "duties". If I marry a girl and she's excellent with math and begetting (whereas I'm terrible) I'm probably going to ask that she balance the checkbook/ be in charge of our spending. If she isn't that good a cook, I'll man the kitchen (no pun intended) because that's one of my strengths. Play to each others' strengths.

 

[Livn4Him]

What do you think of when you think of "submission wife"?
Submitting herself to God

What do you think of when you think of "Head of Household"?
Responsible/accountable to The Lord for her actions. Though not limited to this. A "head of the household", whether it be a husband or s single Mother/Father, is one who leads by example. Gaining the trust of those whom are in their care by sticking to their guns in living the truth-in love!

There is a lot of conjuncture of what those terms mean, but what does it mean to you? I open the floor to you specifically so we can have a deeper conversation on this topic.

I do please ask that any over used scripture be kept at hand with this, but I realize I can not control that.

Have fun with this this. Enlighten us.

May I ask what [you're] opinion of this is?

 

[Lad]

What do you think of when you think of "submission wife"?

What do you think of when you think of "Head of Household"?

There is a lot of conjuncture of what those terms mean, but what does it mean to you? I open the floor to you specifically so we can have a deeper conversation on this topic.

I do please ask that any over used scripture be kept at hand with this, but I realize I can not control that.

Have fun with this this. Enlighten us.

1. I believe my wife should submit to me as long as I am loving her wholly and submitting to God completely. I will be the leader of my home but I will strive to lead under Yeshuas ultimate leadership. If my wife has any concerns about my leading, I will listen and we will both take it to God and wait on Him to show us the right way. My marriage is a partnership, Im open and submissive to God, and shell be open and submissive to me. However I dont believe that she has to obey me no questions asked, as I said she does have to submit ultimately to what I say but she will be respected and loved and will therefore have every right to question and object to my decisions in God.

2. As the head of the household I will be responsible for the spiritual, physical, and emotional wellbeing on my family. I can fulfill this task by relying on God.

 

[allforfun]

May I ask what [you're] opinion of this is?

I like the "submitting to God" as a definition of a submissive wife. Anything else makes my head hurt.

As far as head of the household? I can't even wrap my head around that so I don't. I've said it before, if a man sees the woman as a house pet, he will not get what he wants out of a relationship with me.

 

[Pheonix]

1. submitting means accepting that I have the ultimate say when it comes to decisions, however it doesn't mean I should unilaterally start dictating things or beat her when she doesn't listen, I should seek my wifes opinion on everything as we are a partnership of equals, the whole sister in christ thing, however;

2. as the head of the house hold, I am ultimately responsible to God when the **** hits the fan and is splattered all over the furniture. So with authority comes responsiblity to my wife, children and God. I'm the one that takes the fall when things inevitably go horribly wrong.

That knowledge alone should make both husband and wife shiver in fear and respect for one another.

And by the way the word submit simply means respect not bowing and scraping in fear the way most people seem to think these days.

 

[Jullianna]

1. submitting means accepting that I have the ultimate say when it comes to decisions, however it doesn't mean I should unilaterally start dictating things or beat her when she doesn't listen, I should seek my wifes opinion on everything as we are a partnership of equals, the whole sister in christ thing, however;

2. as the head of the house hold, I am ultimately responsible to God when the **** hits the fan and is splattered all over the furniture. So with authority comes responsiblity to my wife, children and God. I'm the one that takes the fall when things inevitably go horribly wrong.

That knowledge alone should make both husband and wife shiver in fear and respect for one another.

And by the way the word submit simply means respect not bowing and scraping in fear the way most people seem to think these days.

exactly... and I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for causing the man I love to fall out of grace with the Father.

 

[Pheonix]

exactly... and I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for causing the man I love to fall out of grace with the Father.

thanks julianna, and no I'm not married in case you were wondering. and sorry for the bad word, I wasn't really thinking when I put it there

 

[Jullianna]

Thanks for the info. And I didn't see a bad word.

 

[Livn4Him]

I like the "submitting to God" as a definition of a submissive wife. Anything else makes my head hurt.

As far as head of the household? I can't even wrap my head around that so I don't. I've said it before, if a man sees the woman as a house pet, he will not get what he wants out of a relationship with me.

I don't blame you there. I couldn't wrap my head around that either.

 

[TDWP22]

waters, i find that picture very offensive

 

[Lad]

^^ I second that.

 

[rainacorn]

Here's a good example my pastor used on Father's Day-

To all the men in church that aren't forcing their children and/or grandchildren to attend: you are NOT the head of your household as you should be.

Men are responsible for their families, and that includes their spiritual well being. If you know your kids aren't in church on Sunday, you're failing. If your kids are on drugs, you're failing. If your kids are homeless or in bad relationships or can't find a job or whatever...you're failing.

THAT'S how much responsibility there is if you want to honestly be the 'head of the house.' It's not for slouches and there are no excuses.

God don't want no scrubs.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Here's a good example my pastor used on Father's Day-

To all the men in church that aren't forcing their children and/or grandchildren to attend: you are NOT the head of your household as you should be.

Men are responsible for their families, and that includes their spiritual well being. If you know your kids aren't in church on Sunday, you're failing. If your kids are on drugs, you're failing. If your kids are homeless or in bad relationships or can't find a job or whatever...you're failing.

THAT'S how much responsibility there is if you want to honestly be the 'head of the house.' It's not for slouches and there are no excuses.

God don't want no scrubs.

Do you agree with what he said??

Because what of Children making their own decisions? This to me means that pretty much every father out there is a failure because every kid will eventually make poor choices.