Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

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Aug 2, 2021
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As indicated from scripture the NT was begun after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection:

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Heb 9:14-15
You and i are not the Authority of when the NT began = only JESUS the MESSIAH

i agree and believe the Way the Truth and the Life = the New Testament = Jesus the Christ

His Death on the Cross was to fulfill the Prophecy of God spoken to satan, Adam & Eve in the Garden and all that followed.
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world = Rev 13:8

His Blood shed on the Cross is the NEW TESTAMENT(COVENANT).

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying,
“This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."
Luke 22:19-20

His Blood for the NEW TESTAMENT began when??? It began when the LORD Jesus said so = therefore believe HIM.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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I'm pretty sure it doesn't, unless you think the gentiles in Acts 10 received the holy ghost before they even believed the gospel.
The gospel (good news) message consists of believing in Jesus' sacrifice and the need to be obedient to the stated commands as first revealed in Acts 2:38. Romans 1:17 below makes this point. The gospel includes God-given steps of faith, that all must take, in order for God to make us righteous in His sight. This truth is evidenced in the Acts 10 account. Even after believing the message concerning Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost, the group took a step of faith; submitting to water baptism in the name of Jesus. Their action in doing so was evidence they believed it was necessary.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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The gospel (good news) message consists of believing in Jesus' sacrifice and the need to be obedient to the stated commands as first revealed in Acts 2:38. Romans 1:17 below makes this point. The gospel includes God-given steps of faith, that all must take, in order for God to make us righteous in His sight. This truth is evidenced in the Acts 10 account. Even after believing the message concerning Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost, the group took a step of faith; submitting to water baptism in the name of Jesus. Their action in doing so was evidence they believed it was necessary.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The stated Commands of God was first given to us in Genesis.
then to Moses and the Prophets
then God took us back to the Garden Beginning in His SON = the LORD Jesus Christ

The FIRST Command of the LORD Jesus Christ is to believe His Words.
The Middle Command of the LORD Jesus Christ is to obey His Words.
The LAST Command of the LORD Jesus Christ is to Remain in HIM until HE Comes.

When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said,
“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, the Living One.
I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!
And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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You and i are not the Authority of when the NT began = only JESUS the MESSIAH

i agree and believe the Way the Truth and the Life = the New Testament = Jesus the Christ

His Death on the Cross was to fulfill the Prophecy of God spoken to satan, Adam & Eve in the Garden and all that followed.
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world = Rev 13:8

His Blood shed on the Cross is the NEW TESTAMENT(COVENANT).

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying,
“This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."
Luke 22:19-20

His Blood for the NEW TESTAMENT began when??? It began when the LORD Jesus said so = therefore believe HIM.
Again, you refuse to accept what is clearly stated in the scripture provided.

Jesus statement in Luke 22:19-20 pointed to a forthcoming event when His blood would be shed ushering in the New Testament.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Again, you refuse to accept what is clearly stated in the scripture provided.

Jesus statement in Luke 22:19-20 pointed to a forthcoming event when His blood would be shed ushering in the New Testament.
My Post #1,144 is FULL GOSPEL from Genesis to Revelation in just a few sentences.

But you refuse to Hear the very Words of the LORD Jesus Christ spoken in them.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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"The Veil to the Holy of Holies (The Holy Place) was torn from top to bottom."

Why did this happen immediately upon His Death?

Not so that Jesus can go to heaven, but to signify that the Blood Covenant was fulfilled in His Death.

AFTER that, the LORD Ascended so that the Promise of the FATHER could come to us.

IF, His Blood did not take immediate EFFECT, then the Veil would of been torn LATER as you suggest.

PEACE my Brother in Christ
NT believers could not gain access through the vail until after the Holy Ghost was given. And that occurred after Jesus poured His blood on the Mercy Seat, and shed forth the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost.

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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My Post #1,144 is FULL GOSPEL from Genesis to Revelation in just a few sentences.

But you refuse to Hear the very Words of the LORD Jesus Christ spoken in them.
Again, Jesus had not died yet. The interaction was a foreshadow of what was to become a reality.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Interestingly, humans are born into this world by water and blood.
I don't think menstrual rags are the filth some may imagine. Because that birth is by God's design. And Mary bled before begetting holy Emmanuel, being highly favored by God.
Menstrual rags aren't related to birth in any way. In the ancient world, women used rags when they menstruated, since they didn't have Kotex, Tampex, etc. The Hebrew word is literally "used menstrual rags".

Actually, the New Testament was written in plain common, Koine, Greek.
Not relevant. Here is the verse:

Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

So, the point of this verse is that our BEST efforts from the sinful human nature are as OFFENSIVE to God as the USED menstrual rags would be any any human being.

Pretrty graphic, but God doesn't beat around the bush when He is teaching mankind what they need to know.
 

Wansvic

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“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born againb he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘Youd must be born again.’ 8The winde blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Hmmmmm... How can we be certain that Jesus was talking about the "water of the womb" here? Is it simply a matter of context and translation?
Confirmation that Jesus was NOT speaking of the natural birth is found elsewhere in scripture. Jesus was actually speaking of water baptism are seen in the conversion records of each group of humanity. Each witnesses the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and the need to receive the Holy Ghost as well. (Jews-Acts 2:38-41, Samaritans-8:12-18, Gentiles-10:43-48, Various individuals: Acts 19:1-6, 9:17-18, 22:16)
 

BeeThePeace

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May 2, 2022
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Menstrual rags aren't related to birth in any way. In the ancient world, women used rags when they menstruated, since they didn't have Kotex, Tampex, etc. The Hebrew word is literally "used menstrual rags".


Not relevant. Here is the verse:

Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

So, the point of this verse is that our BEST efforts from the sinful human nature are as OFFENSIVE to God as the USED menstrual rags would be any any human being.

Pretrty graphic, but God doesn't beat around the bush when He is teaching mankind what they need to know.
We'll agree, as any woman is aware, to disagree that menstration isn't related to birth in any way.

The idea of women being unclean during menstruation is why to this day a woman in the orthodox sect of Judaism sleeps separate from her husband during her period. And her bed sheets and perhaps as I recall even her clothing are burned at its end.

Keeping in mind I stated the New Testament was written in Koine Greek. The Old Testament of course was not.

And as we read that Isaiah verse we realize rather quickly it is a narrative of Isaiah. Given the grammar employed.
It is not God that makes that indictment against us. Because as we know there was salvation in the OT.

I think we need to think more of ourselves as creations in the image and likeness of God, having the conscious awareness now as does he, due to the tree of knowledge and Adam and Eve obeying his predestined plan unawares, of right and wrong, than what we've previously been led to think of ourselves.

I was not damned scum of the earth before Christ. Nor were you.

The condemnation of our race, the human race, using scripture narratives of men, the foremost authors lending their opinion as well as forwarding divine inspiration, has led to some very self-destructive ideologies that do no good service to we who are of God. Be we his predestined Elect or otherwise.

Isaiah's opinion is insult and contrary to everything a Christian is in service to Christ today, if we take Isaiah's opinion literally.

Whereas, what he was saying in point of fact is, and the blood reference in rags is an example of the allegory, we in and of ourselves cannot act in a way that rescinds the old covenant of God.

Old dried blood does not seal a new covenantal change. The covenants, and there are many in the OT, were,are, sealed with living blood. Which was his meaning.

Which is why the last perfect unblemished lamb for slaughter and sacrifice for the sins of, not in, the world, per God's law in the Old Covenant, was Emmanuel's.
The last altar being the tree . Because scripture does not describe the shape of what we call the cross.

The second Adam took away the sins of the world upon a tree, as the first Adam was responsible for sin entering the world having consumed the fruit of a tree.

We are Saints of God. Temples of his Holy Spirit. Love yourself as God loves you whom he thought enough of to die for.

Our acts as Saints are in his righteous service. No filthy rags metaphores apply in this New Covenant anywhere at all. Save to remind those who think we have to be co-committent in bringing to fruition our Salvation by being baptized beneath physical water, that that is falsehood .

When we are already eternally irrevocably Saved by the living water that is Christ Jesus, God of Heaven.
Who knew our name before
the foundation of the world.


Hallelujah, Amen, and Maranatha.

Old Testament Salvation

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Did the baptism of Jesus simply fulfill prophecy and the "law"?
Jesus had John the Baptist baptize Him (Jesus) to fulfill all righteousness.

So either all righteousness was fulfilled, or it was not. I say it was :)

Jesus' baptism also fulfilled prophesy ;)

During His baptism, John, the greatest of all men according to
Jesus, was shown that Jesus was the long awaited Messiah.
 

BeeThePeace

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May 2, 2022
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God's word never contradicts itself. Paul's question, along with confirming scripture such as the Acts 8 account. And Jesus' own statement that God will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask sheds light on the topic.
God never contradicts himself. However, as one who has studied the history of the compiling of our Bible today, even a cursory study, demonstrates man,scribes, the church, government, and politics, what greater lever of control is afforded mans regime,administration, than to claim it is not they who speak but rather the almighty.

And man's church history demonstrates bloody, savage, murderous, torturous, evidences of that. Be it the many crusades or Inquisition's, both Catholic and Protestant.

It's not us! It's God!

The Bible does bear contradictions and inaccuracies.

That is not God!

That is man! It is said, the Bible was written by the same people who said the earth is flat.

God knows better.

We all live in relationship with the source of all life and creation.

God's word in the New Covenant tells us not to believe everything we're told. But to test the spirits to see if they are of God.

God knows the heart of man. He made it everything it is, shall be, or ever was.

I'll not post the books. Those who are interested shall seek them out, or know them already.

In the Old Testament king David is commanded to take a census. One book states this was God's command. Another that it was Satan's.
One census. Two different accounts.

In the New Testament Saul's encounter with the light on the road to Damascus, he and his two companions.
Once again, those interested will seek them out, or already know them, there are two different accounts.

Three people present in Saul's first person narrative does not become two
different accounts of all that transpired.

I think we make a huge mistake and do our indwelt grace a disservice to insist or imagine the only communication conduit God affords us from himself is the Bible.

But that is precisely what is implied by a Closed Cannon. Man's decree and judgement after compilation of the Bible.

And all those versions. And all those scrolls, and manuscripts that were judged unworthy of inclusion . Because they did not follow a predetermined narrative.

And all those manuscripts and scrolls discovered long after, inform us God has much to tell us. Save for man who acts as editor's in chief.

That's why God is indwelling. Speaking to us if we but take time to be still and listen.

Hogwash?
Just look at how we act and read the meaning of the scriptures in these discussions. Some insust passages don't apply. No different than the many councils of men who compiled the bible over a period exceeding 1000 years.

And our behaviors are not just here,but are evident on virtually every single Christian discussion site on the net.

Some go so far as to refer to God with a lower case g!
The passion, whims, motives, of humans. We call ourselves Christian.

The test and proof differentiates itself in two ways. Those who act like it.
Those who live it.

The New Testament was written decades after Jesus. Before that it was largely a spoken testimony if the Apostles and others after them.

I think it behooves every Christian to study the origin of the Bible.
They may be surprised to know in the beginning, being ours is deemed a Judeo-Christian doctrine, because Messiah's prophetic origin is of the Jewish Bible, that the "Jews" were first Polytheists. Before they were called Jew.
Only later were they to become Monotheists.
Why? That's history worth seeking out .

God is alive in all of us. Don't limit the enormity of his power to the confines of text,doctrine, edifices, or man's egocentrism .

God is not a man that he should lie!

It's a relationship. Not a conveyor belt.

I'm going to depart this thread now. Argumentum ad nauseum tires the blossom of a peace filled spirit.

When we find ugly words, not in your reply here, generally speaking per any Bible topic, being cast at one another in order to make a salient righteous point, I believe we've already lost the point of what it is to live the peace of Christ.

As is said, watch your mouth and behaviors. For you may be the only bible some people ever encounter.

If you feel bad while participating in a discussion about God, leave!

Take time to reflect on the why of that feeling. You're worth more than to be led out of your peace in Christ. And at times by some who enjoy and even feed off what results from their baiting our responses in such ways.

If we behave as if we need Jesus, we fail to prove we are of Jesus. Christ like doesn't behave like his enemy. And the excuse Jesus often behaved in such ways, proves it.

We are blessed. No thing changes this. Be aware of those who seek to do so by their own motives and actions.

Live the peace of Christ.

Thank you, if you read this huuuge post. TLDR, is also understandable. ☺️


 
Jan 31, 2021
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We'll agree, as any woman is aware, to disagree that menstration isn't related to birth in any way.
I'll bet you haven't asked any woman about that.

The idea of women being unclean during menstruation is why to this day a woman in the orthodox sect of Judaism sleeps separate from her husband during her period. And her bed sheets and perhaps as I recall even her clothing are burned at its end.
So, is all that done after giving birth?

Keeping in mind I stated the New Testament was written in Koine Greek. The Old Testament of course was not.
This is irrelevant because the word in the Hebrew was "used menstrual rags". The Greek has NOTHING to do with this.

And as we read that Isaiah verse we realize rather quickly it is a narrative of Isaiah. Given the grammar employed.
It is not God that makes that indictment against us. Because as we know there was salvation in the OT.
Those aren't the point of the verse. The point is that whatever good we can do (morality, etc) stinks to God.

I think we need to think more of ourselves as creations in the image and likeness of God, having the conscious awareness now as does he, due to the tree of knowledge and Adam and Eve obeying his predestined plan unawares, of right and wrong, than what we've previously been led to think of ourselves.
Please translate all this. Or paraphrase.

I was not damned scum of the earth before Christ. Nor were you.
Boy are you unaware of yourself.

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, whether you are aware or not, you are scum. And so am I scum.

Isaiah's opinion is insult and contrary to everything a Christian is in service to Christ today, if we take Isaiah's opinion literally.
You are just offended because the Bible says you are scum. All your righteousnesses stink to God. That's the point.

Whereas, what he was saying in point of fact is, and the blood reference in rags is an example of the allegory, we in and of ourselves cannot act in a way that rescinds the old covenant of God.
Nothing of the sort.

Old dried blood does not seal a new covenantal change.
It's not about that.

The covenants, and there are many in the OT, were,are, sealed with living blood. Which was his meaning.
Irrelevant to Isa 64:6.

Which is why the last perfect unblemished lamb for slaughter and sacrifice for the sins of, not in, the world, per God's law in the Old Covenant, was Emmanuel's.
The last altar being the tree . Because scripture does not describe the shape of what we call the cross.

The second Adam took away the sins of the world upon a tree, as the first Adam was responsible for sin entering the world having consumed the fruit of a tree.

We are Saints of God. Temples of his Holy Spirit. Love yourself as God loves you whom he thought enough of to die for.

Our acts as Saints are in his righteous service. No filthy rags metaphores apply in this New Covenant anywhere at all. Save to remind those who think we have to be co-committent in bringing to fruition our Salvation by being baptized beneath physical water, that that is falsehood .

When we are already eternally irrevocably Saved by the living water that is Christ Jesus, God of Heaven.
Who knew our name before
the foundation of the world.
None of this is relevant to Isa 64:6. Your righteousnesses stink. So do mine.

The only righteousness that is aromatic to God is the righteousness of Christ and HIS work alone on the cross.

Those who believe in the work of Christ for salvation are placed IN UNION with Christ and we share in His righteouesness.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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As indicated from scripture the NT was begun after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection:

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Heb 9:14-15
This Scripture from Hebrews does not say = death, burial and resurrection.
This specific verse in Hebrews says only "there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
443
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I'll bet you haven't asked any woman about that.
I am a woman.☺️.
I was done with this discussion until I read that remark.

You should ask your mother or any woman you may know the part menustration plays in human reproduction.

For the sake of sorely needed education, others may Google, or use any search engine of course, "does a woman's period have anything to do with human fertility reproduction".

I fear yours is an example of the after effects of far right activists succeeding in having elective sex education and human reproduction and development classes removed from those public schools that bow to the pressure.

And omitted from religious education institutions altogether.
Sad stuff.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
I'll bet you haven't asked any woman about that.
I am a woman.☺️.
OK, thanks for the update.

I was done with this discussion until I read that remark.

You should ask your mother or any woman you may know the part menustration plays in human reproduction.
I don't need to. Just asked my wife. She acknowledged that a woman is fertile between periods, and is not fertile DURING menstruation.

Using the words "human reproduction" refers to what is involved in achieving a pregnancy. Is menstruation necessary in order for achieving a pregnancy?

I fear yours is an example of the after effects of far right activists succeeding in having elective sex education and human reproduction and development classes removed from those public schools that bow to the pressure.
You accuse me of being trained by "far right activists". Were you trained by far LEFT activists? Just curious.

After you have googled your search statement, please explain to me (you can use "conversation") how menstruation is necessary for pregnancy. Thanks.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
God never contradicts himself. However, as one who has studied the history of the compiling of our Bible today, even a cursory study, demonstrates man,scribes, the church, government, and politics, what greater lever of control is afforded mans regime,administration, than to claim it is not they who speak but rather the almighty.

And man's church history demonstrates bloody, savage, murderous, torturous, evidences of that. Be it the many crusades or Inquisition's, both Catholic and Protestant.

It's not us! It's God!

The Bible does bear contradictions and inaccuracies.

That is not God!

That is man! It is said, the Bible was written by the same people who said the earth is flat.

God knows better.

We all live in relationship with the source of all life and creation.

God's word in the New Covenant tells us not to believe everything we're told. But to test the spirits to see if they are of God.

God knows the heart of man. He made it everything it is, shall be, or ever was.

I'll not post the books. Those who are interested shall seek them out, or know them already.

In the Old Testament king David is commanded to take a census. One book states this was God's command. Another that it was Satan's.
One census. Two different accounts.

In the New Testament Saul's encounter with the light on the road to Damascus, he and his two companions.
Once again, those interested will seek them out, or already know them, there are two different accounts.

Three people present in Saul's first person narrative does not become two
different accounts of all that transpired.

I think we make a huge mistake and do our indwelt grace a disservice to insist or imagine the only communication conduit God affords us from himself is the Bible.

But that is precisely what is implied by a Closed Cannon. Man's decree and judgement after compilation of the Bible.

And all those versions. And all those scrolls, and manuscripts that were judged unworthy of inclusion . Because they did not follow a predetermined narrative.

And all those manuscripts and scrolls discovered long after, inform us God has much to tell us. Save for man who acts as editor's in chief.

That's why God is indwelling. Speaking to us if we but take time to be still and listen.

Hogwash?
Just look at how we act and read the meaning of the scriptures in these discussions. Some insust passages don't apply. No different than the many councils of men who compiled the bible over a period exceeding 1000 years.

And our behaviors are not just here,but are evident on virtually every single Christian discussion site on the net.

Some go so far as to refer to God with a lower case g!
The passion, whims, motives, of humans. We call ourselves Christian.

The test and proof differentiates itself in two ways. Those who act like it.
Those who live it.

The New Testament was written decades after Jesus. Before that it was largely a spoken testimony if the Apostles and others after them.

I think it behooves every Christian to study the origin of the Bible.
They may be surprised to know in the beginning, being ours is deemed a Judeo-Christian doctrine, because Messiah's prophetic origin is of the Jewish Bible, that the "Jews" were first Polytheists. Before they were called Jew.
Only later were they to become Monotheists.
Why? That's history worth seeking out .

God is alive in all of us. Don't limit the enormity of his power to the confines of text,doctrine, edifices, or man's egocentrism .

God is not a man that he should lie!

It's a relationship. Not a conveyor belt.

I'm going to depart this thread now. Argumentum ad nauseum tires the blossom of a peace filled spirit.

When we find ugly words, not in your reply here, generally speaking per any Bible topic, being cast at one another in order to make a salient righteous point, I believe we've already lost the point of what it is to live the peace of Christ.

As is said, watch your mouth and behaviors. For you may be the only bible some people ever encounter.

If you feel bad while participating in a discussion about God, leave!

Take time to reflect on the why of that feeling. You're worth more than to be led out of your peace in Christ. And at times by some who enjoy and even feed off what results from their baiting our responses in such ways.

If we behave as if we need Jesus, we fail to prove we are of Jesus. Christ like doesn't behave like his enemy. And the excuse Jesus often behaved in such ways, proves it.

We are blessed. No thing changes this. Be aware of those who seek to do so by their own motives and actions.

Live the peace of Christ.

Thank you, if you read this huuuge post. TLDR, is also understandable. ☺️


Believing the bible is the inspired word of God is an act of faith.

Consider as well that God has always required strict obedience to His commands. Why? Because obedience is the mechanism that God chooses to fulfill His purposes as witnessed from His very word. Mankind's required obedience is consistent throughout the bible; "Don't eat the "apple." Disobedience = death. Obedience = life.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:48)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Heb 11:6)

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Tim 3:16)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
This Scripture from Hebrews does not say = death, burial and resurrection.
This specific verse in Hebrews says only "there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."
"For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
"For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."
This is TRUE and you should place your complete faith and confidence in the words of Christ above all religion.

A.) "Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."

B.) And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you(thief), today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice,
He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ” Having said this, He breathed His last."

C.) And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom;


It is important that you know the ABC's of the New Testament.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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If one's sins are not remitted due to not being dunked, how could they be saved?

What you say seems contradictory in that respect.


Colossians 2:13-14
:)
not really no Jesus is going to always honor his word , always and forever.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I try tinker what scripture actually says form what I believe Jesus doesn’t say there “ of anyone believes the gospel and doesn’t get baptized they are damned “

if he said that I would surely adjust what I believe but he doesn’t and to my limited knowledge of scripture no scripture ever says “ if you believe the gospel and fail to get baptized your lost or damned “

but again if I ever read that scripture my belief will follow.


what it does say is “anyone in the world who believes the gospel and gets baptized shall be saved “

honestly at that point I was sold on baptism being something I wanted to be a part of just because Jesus said that.

I’m not interested in bickering because we don’t agree about baptism though. But no it’s not contradictory if we start by understanding my own personal
Rule for my own self “ let scripture just say what it says and explain what it explains “

knowing that it should be reasonable to you that if Jesus never said “ if you believe the gospel and don’t get baptized your damned “ or no apostle ever said “ if you don’t get baptized your lost forever “

then knowing my rule for myself if it’s not in scripture don’t make it be there , you should see my point about. Ot bekieving anyone’s damned simply for not getting baptized seems like you want to argue sort of lol

Jesus does say “ believe the gospel and get baptized and be saved “ that’s what I’m saying too

when asked Peter did say “ repent and get baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins “ so that’s what I believe no one ever said “ baptism for remission has changed in any way or now you don’t need to get baptized “ is why I don’t agree with that thinking but scripture can change a persons mind pretty quickly if you have any that say y thing like that