Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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whatever. I did not lie, and I explained how it was I did not lie. and why what you said was in fact you saying that dispensations teach that choosing God in faith is a work.

And the fact that you refuse to show me how the church you mentioned, and the tax collector chose God just shows me you have no answer.

I am done playing games, you want to make a false accusation about my faith and those like me. Expect to be called out on it and eitther prove your point, or continue to believe the lie you have been shown,
another lie have you no shame?
 
Oct 6, 2021
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Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles and explained the Gospel in crystal clear terms as he did in the first three chapters of Romans. Too many try to shove the teachings of Jesus as Gospel when their purpose was to show us our sin and thus need for His salvation. Remember ‘with man this is impossible but with God all things are possible‘? Mt 19:26
Not really familiar with what you believe,
You believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the Children of Abraham, and Pauls was for the Gentle?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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another lie have you no shame?
Oh so you have shown me how the tax collector Chose God and how that is a work?

You have shown me how your formal church (I assume that is what you r=were refering to you when you mentioned them) say we must chose God and how that is a work?

You have shown me where a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God? and that this faith is how one is saved?
 
Nov 26, 2021
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India
Everlasting_Grace said:
Salvation is a grace gift. Not a reward. You explain to me how we can EARN and be REWARDED salvation. when it can not be earned. Paul said not of works lest anyone should boast.
Unless the Bible contradicts itself, which we know cannot be the case, we must hold it is BOTH/AND, not Either/Or. Salvation is BOTH a Gift of Grace, and a Reward mercifully promised by God for Good Works done in Faith. Anything else fails to explain many passages.

Let me give you an example before I cite them: Let's say Parents say to a child, "you do well in your exam, and I will reward you with a Car". There's no way doing well in an exam can "earn" you a car. It is based on Parental/Fatherly love. That's the same way God mercifully rewards our Good Works done in Faith. I could cite many Bible verses that says God rewards those who serve Him faithfully.

"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving." (Col 3:23-24)

"12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done." (Rev 22:12)

Romans 2:5-6 was cited earlier by Goliath and others: "6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a; Psa 62:12; Prov 24:12] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."

Paul also said there will be people who when their works are tried by fire have nothing left but a heap of ash. as all of their works were burned.
Yes, that was 1 Cor 3:15. But what did he say before that in verse 14? "14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward." Again, clearly, works matter, because, by God's Mercy, they gain rewards in Heaven. Evangelism matters, because you will gain God's Blessings for it, if you do it out of love for God. Martyrdom matters, because you will gain rewards for it (e.g. Rev 2:10), if you suffer death for the Lord's Sake. Similarly, Charity to the Poor etc matters, because God will repay you for the good you do to others.

That's what the Lord teaches in Luk 14:13-15: "13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

After this, he speaks of those who did not labor faithfully: "15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." They will be saved, but only after being chastised by fire.

He also said, they too will be saved as even through fire.
Agreed.

Can you explain how these people were saved, even though they were not very sanctified. and as far as persevering? it appears they remained babes, is that persevering?
When we are Justified/Born Again, we receive the Holy Spirit and enter God's Grace. If we die in God's Grace, even without working much, we will be saved, but our reward will be less, and we may have to wait. Those who labored more will be rewarded more.

That according to the same chapter, verse 8: "8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor."

If Good Works even post-Justification had no value, and do not contribute to our Sanctification by God's Grace, the Bible would never speak of a "Reward" for them. But it does in various passages.

God Bless.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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Oh so you have shown me how the tax collector Chose God and how that is a work?

You have shown me how your formal church (I assume that is what you r=were refering to you when you mentioned them) say we must chose God and how that is a work?

You have shown me where a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God? and that this faith is how one is saved?
Again my post # 128 says nothing about faith. You have chosen to believe your own lies about what i posted while the post is there for all to see. I never said this either "a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God"
As i have found over the years how dispensationalism twist and turns the Scriptures you have done the same to my posts.. Funny how that works ... I believe i was as saved when i followed dispensational teaching as i am today .. Your games are a bore this is my last.
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
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If the poll is to be believed, OK, so what really?

The more people who think they have to do good for others, the better off those who need good works in service to their need(s) are.

I don't think God will hold it against us that we served his kingdom in such ways. God knows who he's called anyway.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Again my post # 128 says nothing about faith. You have chosen to believe your own lies about what i posted while the post is there for all to see. I never said this either "a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God"
As i have found over the years how dispensationalism twist and turns the Scriptures you have done the same to my posts.. Funny how that works ... I believe i was as saved when i followed dispensational teaching as i am today .. Your games are a bore this is my last.
whatever

You made an accusation against me and those like. me, Whether you said faith or not does not matter, You said WE CHOSE GOD AND THAT IS WORKS

Yet you continue to refuse to back up that statement, then say I am the one playing games..

Dispensation teaching is not part of the gospel. So what you say makes no sense here. No one is saved because they follow dispensation teaching.

for the last time, Please tell me how the tax collector chose God. Please tell me how the church you mentioned chose God.

You made an accusation that we teach we chose God and that is works. Take faith out of the equation. and just answer the question.

or prove you can not. because you know you were wrong. and prove who is really bearing false witness here.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Again my post # 128 says nothing about faith. You have chosen to believe your own lies about what i posted while the post is there for all to see. I never said this either "a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God"
As i have found over the years how dispensationalism twist and turns the Scriptures you have done the same to my posts.. Funny how that works ... I believe i was as saved when i followed dispensational teaching as i am today .. Your games are a bore this is my last.
the word trinity is not in the bible. Yet if you say the bible teaches the trinity you are not bearing false witness.

I made my point WHY I believe you claim dispys believe faith is a work. And I think I have proven it without a doubt. Whether you wish to acknowledge that is not up to me.. Continue to believ what you will. But leave my belief out of it. You want to make an accusation against me, Back it up
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Hi Crossnote.

How much faith? Even with a little or weak faith, provided one sincerely believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, Justification is instantaneous imho. By Grace, through Faith, one is Justified, and one's former sins are washed away in the Blood of Christ. No works are required for Justification.

Sanctification is a lifelong process and requires Good Works done in response to God's Grace within us.

2 Pet 1 is about Sanctification:

"5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2 Pet 1:5-11)

So, the Apostle teaches, (1) if you add works to faith, "you will rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ".

But if you do not, (2) you can become "nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins".

These are two different possible outcomes for the Justified Christian, based on whether he neglects Good Works for Sanctification or not, in response to God's Grace.

God Bless.
Xavier, just curious, are you willing to say we are justified by faith ALONE?
If not, what would you add in order to be justified?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Not really familiar with what you believe,
You believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the Children of Abraham, and Pauls was for the Gentle?
I believe Jesus mainly came to His own but due to the rejection by the Jews, He opened the door for the Gentiles using Paul.
Paul was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 9) but when coming into a town inquired about the nearest Synagogue.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I believe Jesus mainly came to His own but due to the rejection by the Jews, He opened the door for the Gentiles using Paul.
Paul was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 9) but when coming into a town inquired about the nearest Synagogue.
Given what you say here, do you believe that God's offer of salvation to the Gentiles was "Plan B" and not part of God's original intent?
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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939
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I believe Jesus mainly came to His own but due to the rejection by the Jews, He opened the door for the Gentiles using Paul.
Paul was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 9) but when coming into a town inquired about the nearest Synagogue.
You really believe the Jewish people control Gods plan?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Given what you say here, do you believe that God's offer of salvation to the Gentiles was "Plan B" and not part of God's original intent?
God is all knowing. There is no plan B with Him.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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God is all knowing. There is no plan B with Him.
You dodged the question. Here are your previous words: "due to the rejection by the Jews, He opened the door for the Gentiles". Do you believe that God always intended to offer salvation to the Gentiles?
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
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I believe Jesus mainly came to His own but due to the rejection by the Jews, He opened the door for the Gentiles using Paul.
Paul was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 9) but when coming into a town inquired about the nearest Synagogue.
Where did I say that or are you assuming it from Dino’s question?
To me your post reads as if the Body of Christ is plan B so to speak
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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You dodged the question. Here are your previous words: "due to the rejection by the Jews, He opened the door for the Gentiles". Do you believe that God always intended to offer salvation to the Gentiles?
Ok, I’ll drop the poetry…no.