Being born of water and Spirit

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ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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"in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth,"

These words weren't in Erasmus' first two editions of the Textus Receptus. He was goaded into adding them to later editions by his Catholic overlords based on a highly questionable manuscript. Erasmus didn't think they belonged but they are very prominent in the Latin tradition. Catholics probably wanted them in there to "prove" the tinity.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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yes that’s what I’m saying that’s how your interpreting scripture

another person might look at it and say John just baptized in water and said Jesus would later baptize with the spirit

and Jesus was telling nicodemus who’s been baptized in water that to be born again he needed to also be born of the spirit

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I myself think he’s talking about being baptized In Water ( as tent all were ) for remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit

so for instance water for remission and receiving the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Spirit and water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if Jesus was talking about water baptism it’s cohesive if he was talking about lol “ birthing fluids “ it makes no relevant sense with the rest of doctrine.

so what I was saying is that’s just how you read it others like myself don’t read it like that. Why would Jesus be talking about birthing fluids ? He wasn’t asked how is a baby born in the flesh ? He was asked about being born again and this occurs just after johns baltism in water for remission of sins began being spread through the land which John had promised the spirit later from the lord which happened at pentocost when they received the spirit and fire John foretold

notice they kept baptizing in water and promising the spirit even to Gentiles like chapter ten of acts there

how is a man born when he is old Jesus ? You must be born of water and spirit nicodemus.

seems basic b it that’s just how I myself read it , you read it differently is all I was getting at that’s your interpretation of it but it doesnt make sense with any of the rest of scripture eater baktism for remission of sins is consistently in the New Testament and receiving the spirit also


Consistently they are all born of water baptism for remission of sins , and receive the Holy Spirit but it’s no issue with me if you think he’s talking about a pregnant woman’s womb there I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense to me

Water baptism for the remission of sins is consistent and evident to me , you don’t agree but I’m ok with it it’s just what I personally believe from scripture and the evidence is overwhelming honestly

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water and spirit don’t replace each other one is the church proscribed doctrine for baptism in water in his name remission of sins , the other is a gift based on the promise of Jesus Christ to give us the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

never has changed the baptism Jesus partook of in the river jordan is the right baptism the Holy Ghost comes from his promise and believing
There is no interpretation of scripture in Post #186 = it just the words of our LORD = STRAIGHT Forward
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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"in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth,"

These words weren't in Erasmus' first two editions of the Textus Receptus. He was goaded into adding them to later editions by his Catholic overlords based on a highly questionable manuscript. Erasmus didn't think they belonged but they are very prominent in the Latin tradition. Catholics probably wanted them in there to "prove" the tinity.
So you’re saying 1 John 5:7 is false?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
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yes that’s what I’m saying that’s how your interpreting scripture

another person might look at it and say John just baptized in water and said Jesus would later baptize with the spirit

and Jesus was telling nicodemus who’s been baptized in water that to be born again he needed to also be born of the spirit

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I myself think he’s talking about being baptized In Water ( as tent all were ) for remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit

so for instance water for remission and receiving the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Spirit and water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if Jesus was talking about water baptism it’s cohesive if he was talking about lol “ birthing fluids “ it makes no relevant sense with the rest of doctrine.

so what I was saying is that’s just how you read it others like myself don’t read it like that. Why would Jesus be talking about birthing fluids ? He wasn’t asked how is a baby born in the flesh ? He was asked about being born again and this occurs just after johns baltism in water for remission of sins began being spread through the land which John had promised the spirit later from the lord which happened at pentocost when they received the spirit and fire John foretold

notice they kept baptizing in water and promising the spirit even to Gentiles like chapter ten of acts there

how is a man born when he is old Jesus ? You must be born of water and spirit nicodemus.

seems basic b it that’s just how I myself read it , you read it differently is all I was getting at that’s your interpretation of it but it doesnt make sense with any of the rest of scripture eater baktism for remission of sins is consistently in the New Testament and receiving the spirit also


Consistently they are all born of water baptism for remission of sins , and receive the Holy Spirit but it’s no issue with me if you think he’s talking about a pregnant woman’s womb there I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense to me

Water baptism for the remission of sins is consistent and evident to me , you don’t agree but I’m ok with it it’s just what I personally believe from scripture and the evidence is overwhelming honestly

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water and spirit don’t replace each other one is the church proscribed doctrine for baptism in water in his name remission of sins , the other is a gift based on the promise of Jesus Christ to give us the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

never has changed the baptism Jesus partook of in the river jordan is the right baptism the Holy Ghost comes from his promise and believing
We are never to add our words to God's words to make our 'perspective' fit.

The LORD never mentioned 'baptism' in John 3:1-21

And we all know why because he made it clear for us "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit."

There is no interpretation necessary here = HE made it very plain and clear.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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I'm saying those words aren't original to the Textus Receptus; make of that what you will.
I'm researching the Comma Johanneum now and there are Greek manuscripts that contain it in 1 John 5:7; there is at least one Latin-Greek manuscript that pre-dates the first edition of the Textus Receptus from year 1516. The earliest is the Greek manuscript containing the Comma Johanneum, called GA 629, is a Latin-Greek manuscript dated to 1362.

Anyway, it seems like this debate has raged for literal centuries and there are evidences produced by both sides to accept or reject the Comma Johanneum based on the opinion of what is considered to be a "highly questionable manuscript." I definitely don't feel like getting in that debate, but since you bring it up just thought I'd share with you what I've found.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,181
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113
There is no interpretation of scripture in Post #186 = it just the words of our LORD = STRAIGHT Forward
lol yeah that’s definately how you see it and interpret what he’s said there he must be talking about birthing fluids and not water baptism. It doesn’t make any sense but sure I guess
 
Aug 2, 2021
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lol yeah that’s definately how you see it and interpret what he’s said there he must be talking about birthing fluids and not water baptism. It doesn’t make any sense but sure I guess
It makes perfect sense = the LORD permanently separates any human means of procuring the Spirit of God.

What HE says to Nic(and us) is a Second Witness Statement to this: John 1:9-13

HE is the true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God,
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,181
5,727
113
We are never to add our words to God's words to make our 'perspective' fit.

The LORD never mentioned 'baptism' in John 3:1-21

And we all know why because he made it clear for us "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit."

There is no interpretation necessary here = HE made it very plain and clear.
“We are never to add our words to God's words to make our 'perspective' fit.”

I agree we also aren’t to erase what’s there , that’s why I understand water baptism is what it is I don’t add to or erase anything.

“There is no interpretation necessary here = HE made it very plain and clear.”

yeah exactly he’s telling a guy who was just water baptized he needs to also receive the spirit. It’s basic he’s not telling him how a baby is born but how a believer is born

water and spirit

“I indeed have baptized you with water:

but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For John truly baptized with water;

but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that came to pass here

“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after that

Water for remission and receiving the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


After that

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After that

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. …Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Water and spirit

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your right your supposed to let the other scriptures make the interpretation but I guess maybe Jesus was talking about natural childbirth which makes no sense or relevance with any other scriptures

This verse you are stuck on you should look at what other thkngs he said about soirit and flesh

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It has nothing to do with childbirth there would be no relevance In Any way to that , but he’s talking about baptism for remission and receiving the Holy Ghost like the church used to believe and agree upon the one baptism in Christ. Baptism for remission in his name and receiving the holy spirit from him that’s how one is born again remission of sins and receiving the spirit
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,181
5,727
113
It makes perfect sense = the LORD permanently separates any human means of procuring the Spirit of God.

What HE says to Nic(and us) is a Second Witness Statement to this: John 1:9-13

HE is the true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God,
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
Yeah it makes sense to you because that’s how your interpreting it .

it doesn’t make any sense to me

what makes perfect sense to me is what I’ve shared on all those scriptures about water baptism and receiving the spirit from Jesus you seem to. It want to address any of Them though I think we just see it different

maybe your right maybe the church had baktism wrong Peter didn’t get it so he commanded baptism in water for remission and said they would receive the promised Holy Spirit . I don’t think it’s changed but maybe you’ve received some sort of revelation they never understood so they kept baptizing in water from ignorance
 
May 22, 2020
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You are wrong P10. You can quote as many scriptures as you like, but it won't change the fact that you are wrong. I, and I suspect some others here, are cases in point. I understand your want to protect the integrity of scripture, but the sole authority over scripture is the Spirit, and He is not controlled by legalism, but by godly compassion and the moral rectitude that goes hand in hand with that. Consider the disciples collecting and eating the wheat grains because of their hunger on the Sabbath, and how the Pharisees rebuked them for apparently profaning the law covering the Sabbath. What was Jesus' response?

WOW...you are not debating in a court of the land...we are dealing with God's word. If you are not following God's word what are you following?

Believe me...The Holy Spirit is ok with God's word.

Baptism is the point here...not wheat.

Your attempt of transference ...doesn't work.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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You are wrong P10. You can quote as many scriptures as you like, but it won't change the fact that you are wrong. I, and I suspect some others here, are cases in point. I understand your want to protect the integrity of scripture, but the sole authority over scripture is the Spirit, and He is not controlled by legalism, but by godly compassion and the moral rectitude that goes hand in hand with that. Consider the disciples collecting and eating the wheat grains because of their hunger on the Sabbath, and how the Pharisees rebuked them for apparently profaning the law covering the Sabbath. What was Jesus' response?
Matthew 3:11
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,181
5,727
113
Matthew 3:11
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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Please see post #163 as I explained my line of thinking on that subject there. From what I can tell it is most likely a water baptism, not the water itself being the literal body of Christ or the Spirit. Like all things, the baptism is an action of faith or a work of faith.
Please see post #177 as I explained a very basic truth about the 'baptize' words in the scriptures that you should consider and not blow-off and ignore.
 
May 22, 2020
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Matthew 3:11
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Yep.......and anyone who can not accept God's word requiring baptism just doesn't want to follow His commandments.
 
May 22, 2020
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timed out.....

.....It is a new age religion thing like, OSAS here on earth, universalism, etc.
Also, a new one being batted around is that repentance isn't necessary.

We can be assured .....more are on the way
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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you must be born of water and spirit........ yet everyone is automatically born of water already? thats just retarded man.
As soon as I can "find the time", I will try to explain something about the John 3 passage that most of the posters on this thread seem to be reading incorrectly. Perhaps, it may be helpful.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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John 3:

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

In verse 5, Jesus is not telling Nicodemus that he must yet be 'born of water', as if Nicodemus was not yet 'born of water'.

Jesus is making a general statement about the requirement for 'any man' to enter the kingdom of God.

Furthermore, verse 6 expounds upon verse 5.

Please take note of the phrases 'born of the flesh' and 'born of the Spirit'.

Now, [water] baptism is being immersed in water - not born of water.

It does not say 'immersed in water' - it says 'born of water'.

born of water
born of the flesh - is flesh

born of the Spirit
born of the Spirit - is spirit

The same 'born of' idea is applied to both 'water' and 'the Spirit'.

It is easy to see that 'water' is referring to something that is 'flesh' (or, 'physical').

The question to ask is:

"What does it mean to be 'born of' water?"

Clue:

"What does it mean to be 'born of' the Spirit?"

The same 'born of' idea is applied to both.

As a side-note...

If one must be 'born of water' to enter the kingdom of God, then the angels are ineligible.
 
C

ChristianTonyB

Guest
WOW...you are not debating in a court of the land...we are dealing with God's word. If you are not following God's word what are you following?

Believe me...The Holy Spirit is ok with God's word.

Baptism is the point here...not wheat.

Your attempt of transference ...doesn't work.
"Leave them alone".