Is veneration of saints Biblical?
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Hello, residentAlien it is not biblical at all but a roman catholic ""thing"" that generated tons of moneys for the church. Today we would call it a scam... probably 99% of the ""saints"" were not really saints but were used as such for MONEY! I was raised a catholic in Quebec, so i know a thing or two about this, definitely it is idolatry. Praying to ""saints"" instead of the holy father is wrong! there is no scriptural basis for this fraud.
Blessings and Peace be with you,
JF
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Here’s an explanation here
https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/orthodox-pray-saints/
and here’s an explanation regarding praying FOR the dead https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/prayer-for-the-dead/
https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/orthodox-pray-saints/
and here’s an explanation regarding praying FOR the dead https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/prayer-for-the-dead/
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I believe a lot of the people they call saints actually are saints, but then none of them would want people to make idols to them and worship them. In fact, a lot of the saints gave their lives to end such practices. To know their stories and how they had faith in Jesus is sufficient enough.
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All believers are saints according to the Biblical definition.
Praying to dead people is certainly not Biblical.
We pray to God. We pray for others.
Praying to anyone else seems blasphemous.
There is one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ
Praying to dead people is certainly not Biblical.
We pray to God. We pray for others.
Praying to anyone else seems blasphemous.
There is one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ
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"The Roman Catholic Church, which has approved and sanctioned prayers to be addressed to departed saints and angels, contradicts Scripture. By asserting that which the Bible declares as practices of heathen, as something accepted in God’s sight, as well as commanding its members to exercise themselves in such practices, is utterly sinful. This, however, is what the Papal Church does. Thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church declares:
“The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints… They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were put in charge of many things. Their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.”39
In contradistinction to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, we learn in the Bible that not only the use of images as visual aids in prayer is idolatry, but also the practice of addressing prayers to departed saints and angels itself is a great sin!
It is sin first because it supposes the departed saint or angel to be everywhere present (omnipresent), or to know at once the hearts and minds of all men individually (omniscience); or else the one who prays pretends to know when the saint or angel is present and available to hear him, and when not (psychic). It also supposes the saint or angel to be all-powerful (omnipotent) and thus able to respond and grant the favorable answer to the request. But all such presumption is deceit! Only God Himself is all knowing, present everywhere at the same time, all powerful, and thus able to hear, examine, and answer the prayers of all those who pray to Him from all corners of the world at the same time. To attribute to a creature, be it man or angel, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence is to grant to them divine attributes, and thus elevate such creatures to the level of God, making them equal with God, which plainly is idolatry. We ask, is this all not but sinful superstition? The Bible clearly declares, “Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he have not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.”40 And, “I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then said he unto me, See thou do it not… worship God.”41
Second, it is sinful because Scripture nowhere signifies that God would have us pray to any such saints or angels; but signifies enough to satisfy us of the contrary. We read neither in the Old Testament nor in the New of any prayer directed to a departed saint or angel, but all prayer is strictly directed to God the Father, and in the New Testament to God the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Chris; and so we are told: “In whom [Jesus] we have boldness and access with confidence [to the Father] through faith in Him.”42 There is no access to the heavenly realms outside the mediation of Christ Jesus; there is no access to God but through His Son alone. We are commanded to direct our prayers to God alone through Christ Jesus alone.43
Third, it is sinful because it runs counter to, as well as ignores, the fact that all prayer is veneration and worship; for it is a conscious recognition that the one to whom we pray is worthy of our respectful reverence and is powerful to answer our petitions. Prayer directed to God is worship directed to God. It is recognition that He alone is Almighty, worthy of our praise and affection, that He is always present, and that He is “a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.”44 Thus, all worship offered through prayer is to be given to God alone, and this renders all prayers to saints and angels as sinful presumption and idolatry.
Fourth, it is sin against God to pray to departed saints or angels for forgiveness of sins, to justify, sanctify, redeem, or do anything which belongs to God alone; it is no better than idolatry. The teaching of Scripture is emphatic throughout – that deliverance and salvation come only from God: “Salvation belongeth unto the Lord,”45 “Salvation is of the Lord.”46 The saints of God in Heaven now can testify of it, and they themselves give all credit to God alone: “I beheld, and lo, a great multitude… of all nations, and kindreds, and people… stood before the throne, before the Lamb [Christ Jesus] clothed with white robes [the redeemed saints]… and cried with loud voice, saying, Salvation [belongs] to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”47 Salvation is a direct gift bestowed from the hand of God upon those whom He saves, “for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.”48
Fifth, it is sinful because it ignores the fact that all prayer is conditional. It is conditional because it has to be made in Christ’s name to be accepted by the Father. Praying in Christ’s name does not mean merely saying the name of Jesus at the end of a prayer, but it means that one’s access into God’s presence in prayer rests wholly on Christ’s merits and intercession.49 And to depend wholly on Christ’s merit in order to be accepted by God, means that the one who prays has already come to Christ for reconciliation with God; for God the Father has established His Son, the Lord Jesus, as the only way by which sinners may be reconciled with Him. “I am the way… no man cometh to the Father but by me,”50 said the Lord Jesus, whose statement teaches us by simple logical reasoning that no one is accepted before God for salvation by the intermediation of a departed saint, or an angel of God, or disciple of the Lord Jesus, or His earthly mother, or any other – “but by me,” said He.
It is the Lord Jesus Christ alone who intercedes in the prayer of a repentant sinner who prays to God for salvation. And for this truth we have clear, emphatic, and abundant proof in the words of the Holy Spirit speaking of Jesus Christ, “Wherefore [Jesus] is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them…such high priest [the Lord Jesus] became us who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.”51 After a person is saved, Christ continues as his representative before the father, as it is written: “My little children these things write I unto you that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”52 And the Holy Spirit of God intercedes in the prayer of a redeemed sinner, “The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us… And He that searcheth the heart knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because [the Spirit] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.”53"
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“The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints… They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were put in charge of many things. Their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.”39
In contradistinction to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, we learn in the Bible that not only the use of images as visual aids in prayer is idolatry, but also the practice of addressing prayers to departed saints and angels itself is a great sin!
It is sin first because it supposes the departed saint or angel to be everywhere present (omnipresent), or to know at once the hearts and minds of all men individually (omniscience); or else the one who prays pretends to know when the saint or angel is present and available to hear him, and when not (psychic). It also supposes the saint or angel to be all-powerful (omnipotent) and thus able to respond and grant the favorable answer to the request. But all such presumption is deceit! Only God Himself is all knowing, present everywhere at the same time, all powerful, and thus able to hear, examine, and answer the prayers of all those who pray to Him from all corners of the world at the same time. To attribute to a creature, be it man or angel, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence is to grant to them divine attributes, and thus elevate such creatures to the level of God, making them equal with God, which plainly is idolatry. We ask, is this all not but sinful superstition? The Bible clearly declares, “Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he have not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.”40 And, “I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then said he unto me, See thou do it not… worship God.”41
Second, it is sinful because Scripture nowhere signifies that God would have us pray to any such saints or angels; but signifies enough to satisfy us of the contrary. We read neither in the Old Testament nor in the New of any prayer directed to a departed saint or angel, but all prayer is strictly directed to God the Father, and in the New Testament to God the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Chris; and so we are told: “In whom [Jesus] we have boldness and access with confidence [to the Father] through faith in Him.”42 There is no access to the heavenly realms outside the mediation of Christ Jesus; there is no access to God but through His Son alone. We are commanded to direct our prayers to God alone through Christ Jesus alone.43
Third, it is sinful because it runs counter to, as well as ignores, the fact that all prayer is veneration and worship; for it is a conscious recognition that the one to whom we pray is worthy of our respectful reverence and is powerful to answer our petitions. Prayer directed to God is worship directed to God. It is recognition that He alone is Almighty, worthy of our praise and affection, that He is always present, and that He is “a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.”44 Thus, all worship offered through prayer is to be given to God alone, and this renders all prayers to saints and angels as sinful presumption and idolatry.
Fourth, it is sin against God to pray to departed saints or angels for forgiveness of sins, to justify, sanctify, redeem, or do anything which belongs to God alone; it is no better than idolatry. The teaching of Scripture is emphatic throughout – that deliverance and salvation come only from God: “Salvation belongeth unto the Lord,”45 “Salvation is of the Lord.”46 The saints of God in Heaven now can testify of it, and they themselves give all credit to God alone: “I beheld, and lo, a great multitude… of all nations, and kindreds, and people… stood before the throne, before the Lamb [Christ Jesus] clothed with white robes [the redeemed saints]… and cried with loud voice, saying, Salvation [belongs] to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”47 Salvation is a direct gift bestowed from the hand of God upon those whom He saves, “for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.”48
Fifth, it is sinful because it ignores the fact that all prayer is conditional. It is conditional because it has to be made in Christ’s name to be accepted by the Father. Praying in Christ’s name does not mean merely saying the name of Jesus at the end of a prayer, but it means that one’s access into God’s presence in prayer rests wholly on Christ’s merits and intercession.49 And to depend wholly on Christ’s merit in order to be accepted by God, means that the one who prays has already come to Christ for reconciliation with God; for God the Father has established His Son, the Lord Jesus, as the only way by which sinners may be reconciled with Him. “I am the way… no man cometh to the Father but by me,”50 said the Lord Jesus, whose statement teaches us by simple logical reasoning that no one is accepted before God for salvation by the intermediation of a departed saint, or an angel of God, or disciple of the Lord Jesus, or His earthly mother, or any other – “but by me,” said He.
It is the Lord Jesus Christ alone who intercedes in the prayer of a repentant sinner who prays to God for salvation. And for this truth we have clear, emphatic, and abundant proof in the words of the Holy Spirit speaking of Jesus Christ, “Wherefore [Jesus] is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them…such high priest [the Lord Jesus] became us who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.”51 After a person is saved, Christ continues as his representative before the father, as it is written: “My little children these things write I unto you that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”52 And the Holy Spirit of God intercedes in the prayer of a redeemed sinner, “The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us… And He that searcheth the heart knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because [the Spirit] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.”53"
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Those that have died in God's grace are not dead at all. God is the God of the living, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They live. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never** die.
The saints are not dead, but are fully alive in Jesus Christ, who is life itself (John 11:25) and the bread of life who bestows life on all who eat his flesh and drink his blood (John 6:35, 48, 51, 53-56).
The saints are alive in heaven because of the life they have received through their faith in Christ Jesus and through their eating of his body and blood.
The book of Revelation shows the saints worshipping God, singing hymns, playing instruments, making requests to Christ to avenge their martyrdom, and offering prayers for the saints on earth (Rev. 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11).
The saints are not dead, but are fully alive in Jesus Christ, who is life itself (John 11:25) and the bread of life who bestows life on all who eat his flesh and drink his blood (John 6:35, 48, 51, 53-56).
The saints are alive in heaven because of the life they have received through their faith in Christ Jesus and through their eating of his body and blood.
The book of Revelation shows the saints worshipping God, singing hymns, playing instruments, making requests to Christ to avenge their martyrdom, and offering prayers for the saints on earth (Rev. 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11).
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Don't confuse veneration/honor for the saints as worshiping the saints in heaven. As humans, we honor our heroes, our mothers, our fathers, our military heroes, great political leaders like Abraham Lincoln, sports stars, and others. We hold parades for them. But nobody confuses this honoring of those we thank as worship of any kind.
Jesus hears the prayers of the righteous, but there are none that are righteous here on earth. The righteous are in heaven.
Jesus hears the prayers of the righteous, but there are none that are righteous here on earth. The righteous are in heaven.
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Rom_1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
There are 61 times in the NT where the word saints once for the word saint. i reading seems to me we are saints . I do not believe man has the authority to call/label a person of God 'saint' above that which the Scriptures do . Some of us dont seem very saint like hehe
1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
There are 61 times in the NT where the word saints once for the word saint. i reading seems to me we are saints . I do not believe man has the authority to call/label a person of God 'saint' above that which the Scriptures do . Some of us dont seem very saint like hehe
I agree totally...
One of my brothers has abandoned ship and become RCC .Our dad would roll over in his grave.. His claim when i have approached this very subject is dont we as Christians have everlasting life? Do you not ask fellow Christians to pray ?
Your take on this would be an interesting read. Thanks
One of my brothers has abandoned ship and become RCC .Our dad would roll over in his grave.. His claim when i have approached this very subject is dont we as Christians have everlasting life? Do you not ask fellow Christians to pray ?
Your take on this would be an interesting read. Thanks
All who live and all who have gone before are joined with us as members of the body of Christ. Those who have died have not left us behind in terms of their desire to join with us petitioning God for our needs.
St. Paul frequently asks other to pray for him and assures them he is praying for them. If you have ever asked someone to pray for a sick friend, or for you in a time of need, you already understand the power that comes from multiple voices raised in prayer. The saints are among the most important friends we can ask. We are united through Christ to those who have gone before us in faith – the saints. Their time on earth is over but they are still active in relationship with God.
St. Paul frequently asks other to pray for him and assures them he is praying for them. If you have ever asked someone to pray for a sick friend, or for you in a time of need, you already understand the power that comes from multiple voices raised in prayer. The saints are among the most important friends we can ask. We are united through Christ to those who have gone before us in faith – the saints. Their time on earth is over but they are still active in relationship with God.
Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
In this passage from the Book of Revelation, John speaks of the prayers of the saints being offered to God along with incense. The saints, our brothers in sisters in heaven, like our brothers and sisters on earth can bring our needs before God.-
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