A Precedent for Every Situation
- Thread starter Wansvic
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Paul's letter was addressed to born again Christians who had believed the message concerning Jesus and submitted to baptism. (Rom. 6:3-6) Those who believe and confess Jesus to others shall be saved as his letter points out as well.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
FOR IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
It is interesting how aspects of water baptism is so fiercely fault against. For the sake of argument, let's say God did design water baptism as the means of remitting an individual's sin in accordance with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Consider the implications. Would it or would it not be a target for destruction by the enemy?
Beginning in 325 A.D., distortions to the practice began with the removal of the all powerful name of the Lord Jesus. As mentioned in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, one's baptism is to be done in the name of the one crucified for the individual; that being the Lord Jesus. (1 Cor. 1:13)
And, throughout history understanding of the practice has diminished greatly from its original intent. Many seeing it as nothing more than a public display. Refusing to believe God's stated purpose. And as such, the stain of sin remains upon individuals barring entrance into the kingdom of God.
All will be judged by the Word according to Jesus. And obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin is clearly stated there.
Acts 3:19 does not contradict 2:38. Turning to God in repentance leads to sins being forgiven through obedience to God's command to be water baptized in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Ghost.
Jesus said unless a man is born of water and of Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom. (John 3:3-5) A parallel is seen in every detailed conversion pertaining to all groups of humanity. Upon belief in the gospel message as stated believers submitted to water baptism in Jesus' name and received the Holy Ghost as well. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
Obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus has nothing to do with OT law. One's belief in the gospel message and it's stated requirements prompts action thereby faith is perfected. (James 2:22)
Adam & Eve along with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are BEFORE the Law given to Moses.
What the LORD said and did with Adam&Eve, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the Precedent by which our SALVATION is Complete.
Paul didn’t say, since you have been baptized all you need to do is . . .
We are saved by grace through faith.
and what is faith without walking in the works set before us ?
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:8, 10 KJV
one verse doesn’t erase the others
The works are for God’s glory, not for our salvation or the maintenance thereof.
P
Polar
Guest
How about walking ON the water? Is that a work? If you start to sink, is that considered baptism?
No I'm not making fun. There is nothing funny at all when baptism is promoted as a part of salvation.
Adding to the actual work of Christ, creates a burden on believers putting one in mind of certain religious leaders who took great joy in doing such and were condemned by Jesus for doing so.
Should we be water baptized? Well yes, scripture is plain on that and obedience should follow. However, what appears to be the teaching that you are not saved until you are water baptized, is incorrect and a misunderstanding of scripture.
No I'm not making fun. There is nothing funny at all when baptism is promoted as a part of salvation.
Adding to the actual work of Christ, creates a burden on believers putting one in mind of certain religious leaders who took great joy in doing such and were condemned by Jesus for doing so.
Should we be water baptized? Well yes, scripture is plain on that and obedience should follow. However, what appears to be the teaching that you are not saved until you are water baptized, is incorrect and a misunderstanding of scripture.
Scripture must be taken in context.
Romans 6:3-6 means what it says. As does Romans 10:9-10. The two do not contradict one another.
Salvation is not possible without remission of one's personal sin. (Mark 1:1-5, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38 and 22:16)
Scripture states remission of one's personal sin takes place in obedience to the God-given command to be water baptized. (Mark 1:1-5, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38, 22:16) Many have no idea that the bible actually says so. They believe what others say about the topic.
Pointing out what is recorded in the word is in no way meant to condemn but rather is done out of love. (Eph. 4:15)
I can agree on one thing, humility isn't being shown here.
There's an old saying, "It takes two to tango".
I cannot speak for everyone else, but as for me, both your reputations are changing in my eyes. I'm not sure that matters to you, because I'm not some big somebody. I do think both of you want to be pleasing to the Lord, so think about what it looks like in His eyes.
Peace to you both.
I can agree on one thing, humility isn't being shown here.
There's an old saying, "It takes two to tango".
I cannot speak for everyone else, but as for me, both your reputations are changing in my eyes. I'm not sure that matters to you, because I'm not some big somebody. I do think both of you want to be pleasing to the Lord, so think about what it looks like in His eyes.
Peace to you both.
Thanks Brother
Was the thief on the cross saved?
(Did Jesus not indicate this?)
Was he water baptized?
(Did Jesus not indicate this?)
Was he water baptized?
Salvation is not possible apart from the sacrifice and shed Blood of Jesus Christ = Read Post #8
There is no mention of water baptism in Revelation. Only His Blood and Faith is mentioned for Overcoming sin.
John 3:1-21 only mentions 3 Things necessary for Salvation:
the Holy Spirit
His Blood Sacrifice
Faith in the only begotten Son of God
Spirit - "that which is Spirit is spirit"
Blood - "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up."
Faith - " For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
I am aware that salvation would not be possible without the shed blood of Jesus. Because of His sacrifice everyone is given the opportunity to be washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ AND by the Spirit of God. (I Corinthians 6:11) This is accomplished through belief and obedience to the God-given commands initially presented in Acts 2:38.
Jesus' death, burial and resurrection opened the way for all of humanity to be saved. However, few will actually receive the eternal blessing His sacrifice provided. (Matt. 7:13-14, 22-29)
P
Polar
Guest
You are incorrect.
Just some poor Bible interpretation going on there.
Christ completed all work for our salvation on the cross when He shed His blood for us. We receive salvation when we put our faith in Him. All the twisting and manipulations of scripture do not change that fact one tiny bit. I believe what scripture states and it most certainly does not state we need a bath to be washed clean of our sins.
ONLY the shed blood of Christ washes away all sin. Should we be baptized? Well yes of course. But we have already had our sins forgiven and forgotten by the Father when that occurs.
these works disqualify from inheritance
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
that is Paul the apostle who speaks of grace warning the same people about evil works disqualifying them from inheritance here it is again as Paul said there he repetitively told them this whether Galatians or Ephesians
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:3-7 KJV
Whether Corinthians
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
the works we do good or evil is what’s going to be what we receive there is no free grace pass where we reject Christs words.
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
We don’t want that to be the case but it is though when we accept it it brings our faith to repentance and life to the Roman church
what we do and what we don’t do matters because that’s what will determine this ask yourself if what they did good and evil was important to thier salvation
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
Romans 2:5-10 KJV
we can refuse to accept this truth but it’s in the new testsment and old
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment,
with every secret thing,
whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
to live as if what we actually do
In life isNt a matter of salvstion is the reason we never change it is God has offered us something amazing but we change it into things it’s not when we don’t accept what he actually offers
The gospel is a chance for this
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
because this is the case
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:12
we have to stop our sinful works and start following the things Jesus set before us we don’t have to be perfect but we do have to turn from doing evil and start doing good it’s a salvstion matter for sure but we’re all given free Will if we choose to reject it