Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 12, 2021
416
91
28
First, election isn't about being chosen unconditionally for salvation. It is about being chosen for service.

Second, can you provide biblical evidence for your claim that the sinful nature is replaced with Jesus' holy nature?


It is true that man is unable to save himself. However, the Bible doesn't teach that man is unable to believe the gospel.


Every verse about salvation mentions faith or believing. That is a condition, so the calvinist claim is unbiblical. And proves that election isn't to salvation.


None of these verses says Jesus died for ONLY some. In fact a number of verses says plainly that He died for all, meaning everyone.

John 1:29, 4:42, 2 Cor 5:14,15 19, 1 Tim 2:3-6, Heb 2:9, 1 John 2:2.


Again, these verses don't teach that grace is irresistible. It was by grace that Jesus died for all, and yet not all are saved. proving this point is unbiblical.


Eternal security is absolutely biblical!! However, perseverance is commanded in the Bible. So it is not guaranteed or automatic.
2 Peter 1:3-4
New King James Version


3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the [a]corruption that is in the world through lust.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
New King James Version


26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit (Holy Spirit) within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Romans 6:6-7
New King James Version


6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin.

Galatians 5:24
New King James Version


24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
 
Jun 12, 2021
416
91
28
I have no idea of what you're talking about. But as long as you think things are funny, that's good . . . I guess.
2 Peter 1:3-4
New King James Version


3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the [a]corruption that is in the world through lust.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
New King James Version


26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit (Holy Spirit) within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Romans 6:6-7
New King James Version


6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin.

Galatians 5:24
New King James Version


24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
FreeGrace2 said:
What are you talking about? What is all this "yet" business?

Are you actually suggesting that NO ONE was saved before Jesus died for sins?

NO. And this isn't an answer to my question to YOU. Please explain all those "yets" in your post. That is my question.


Please just answer my question regarding the "yets".


No, I am asking you for clarification. That's NOT a claim of any kind.
I’ve already answered your question. Jesus is the only Lord and Savior. Before him, no “OT saint“ got “saved”, period. Jesus himself willingly died to meet them and set them free.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
First, election isn't about being chosen unconditionally for salvation. It is about being chosen for service.

Second, can you provide biblical evidence for your claim that the sinful nature is replaced with Jesus' holy nature?

It is true that man is unable to save himself. However, the Bible doesn't teach that man is unable to believe the gospel.
2 Peter 1:3-4
New King James Version


3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the [a]corruption that is in the world through lust.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
New King James Version


26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit (Holy Spirit) within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Romans 6:6-7
New King James Version


6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin.

Galatians 5:24
New King James Version


24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
?? Which verse do you believe says that man is unable to believe the gospel promise?
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I’ve already answered your question. Jesus is the only Lord and Savior. Before him, no “OT saint“ got “saved”, period. Jesus himself willingly died to meet them and set them free.
Why did the OT saints call the place of the souls of those who believed in the coming Messiah "Paradise"?

Why did Jesus tell one of the thieves that he would be with Jesus in Paradise?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
That's limited atonement. Christs Blood is sufficient for all but efficacious only to those who believe. Which is Calvinist doctrine.

I absolutely do believe that. The scripture and our real life experience bear it out.
Not exactly.

The doctrine of limited atonement states that though the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world, it was the intention of God the Father that the atonement of Christ's death would work itself out in only the elect, thereby leading them without fail to salvation.

In other words, according to Calvin, the sacrifice of Christ only applies to those who were predestined, those you were chosen, known as the elect. That’s different than what the Bible says.

The position Magenta stated where Christ died for the world, but only those who have faith can access the benefits of His sacrifice, and anyone can potentially have faith is accurate.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
Why did the OT saints call the place of the souls of those who believed in the coming Messiah "Paradise"?

Why did Jesus tell one of the thieves that he would be with Jesus in Paradise?
"Paradise" means garden, which is referring to the restored Garden of Eden, the New Jerusalem. That place was in Ezekiel, and all OT saints knew it. When Mary Magdalene mistook Jesus as the gardener, she wasn't really mistaken, for Jesus, the second Adam, is the gardener of that restored Garden of Eden, and he holds the key (Rev. 3:7)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Not exactly.

The doctrine of limited atonement states that though the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world, it was the intention of God the Father that the atonement of Christ's death would work itself out in only the elect, thereby leading them without fail to salvation.

In other words, according to Calvin, the sacrifice of Christ only applies to those who were predestined, those you were chosen, known as the elect. That’s different than what the Bible says.

The position Magenta stated where Christ died for the world, but only those who have faith can access the benefits of His sacrifice, and anyone can potentially have faith is accurate.
No. Its not different than what the bible says.

Its different than your understanding of what the bible says.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
No, the text does NOT say that. You are trying to make hearing and following a condition for receiving eternal life.

In v.27 Jesus describes what His sheep DO. v.28 tells us the result of being given eternal life.

Those who disagree with this are basically admitting that they can't read so well.


No, I do not agree. Jesus began v.27 with the words "My sheep". That means they are already saved. The rest of v.27 describes what saved people DO, or OUGHT TO DO.

The point of v.28 is about recipients of eternal life. Jesus says He gives His sheep eternal life. He didn' say those sheep who hear and follow. It's about believing, which John 3:15, 16 and 5:24 clearly says.

Those who believe possess eternal life. And they shall never perish.

Why don't you believe this?
LOL - You wrote "Those who believe possess eternal life. And they shall never perish. Why don't you believe this?"
-- of course I believe that - a solid Biblical truth! What I don't believe is those that are not sheep have eternal life.

On John 10:27,28 I said: "The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
You said: "No, the text does NOT say that."

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

OK - What about this: "Jesus' sheep hearing his voice, and following him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
Do you agree that the text says this?

You are trying to make hearing and following a condition for receiving eternal life.
No, I am just trying to say that vs. 27 says that Jesus' sheep hear and follow.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
LOL - You wrote "Those who believe possess eternal life. And they shall never perish. Why don't you believe this?"
-- of course I believe that - a solid Biblical truth! What I don't believe is those that are not sheep have eternal life.

On John 10:27,28 I said: "The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
You said: "No, the text does NOT say that."

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

OK - What about this: "Jesus' sheep hearing his voice, and following him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
Do you agree that the text says this?



No, I am just trying to say that vs. 27 says that Jesus' sheep hear and follow.
Is hearing and following a condition of being a sheep or is being a sheep a result of hearing and following?
Or does hearing and following indicate the state of being as a sheep?
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
So let's discuss the doctrine/issue of so-called Conditional Security vs Eternal Security. Do you believe in Once Saved, Always Saved? I believe Salvation is a Combination of the Grace of Justification+the Grace of Perseverance i.e. Salvation=Justification+Perseverance. So, after Justification, we must pray for perseverance, otherwise we risk being cut off or falling away, as the Bible records that some have done. By God's Grace, we can persevere to the end.

The famous saying of Our Lord is: "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." (Mat 24:13)

Three or four passages to start off the discussion below:

1. John 15: "2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit ... 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Seems to be echoed in Romans 11:22: "22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

2. Heb 6:4-6:
"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

3. 2 Pet 2:20-22:

"20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

These verses very clearly seem to teach that Justification!=(not equal to)Salvation. Initial Justification+Final Perseverance = Full Salvation. Thoughts?

God Bless,
Xavier.



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9



Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:3-4





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
Every year or so it's important to post these 101 reasons why once you are a born again child of God, you forever remain a child of God:

101 BIBLE REASONS PROVING
ETERNAL SECURITY


1. The believer has everlasting or eternal life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

2. The believer is born of God.

John 1:12-13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

3. Christ will raise every believer up at the last day.

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

4. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

5. The believer is not the object of God’s wrath.

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

6. Believer are God’s sheep.

John 10:2-4: “But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.”

7. The believer will not listen to nor follow a stranger, but will flee from him.

John 10:5: “And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (The stranger here is Satan and his false teachers.)

8. The believer is known of God.

John 10:14: “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

9. The believer listens to the voice of the shepherd.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

10. The believer is in Christ’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

11. The believer is in the Father’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:29: “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

12. The shepherd is charged with the responsibility of keeping the sheep.

John 10:11-14: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

13. The believer is not condemned.

John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

14. The believer shall never thirst.

John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

15. The believer will keep Christ’s commandments.

John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

16. The believer is secure because of Christ’s prayer.

John 17:9-12: “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee, Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

17. The believer shall never die.

John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

18. The believer to be kept from the evil.

John 17:15: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”

Jesus prays that the believer may be kept from the Devil. Was this prayer answered?

19. The believer to be with Christ in glory.

John 17:24: “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

20. The believer shall never hunger.

John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

21. The believer will in no wise be cast out (Not under any circumstance).

John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

22. Christ will not lose a single believer.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

23. Christ will raise up the believer at the last day.

John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

24. Whosoever eats the bread of life shall never die.

John 6:51: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

25. Because the Holy Spirit abides in the believer forever.

John 14:16-17: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”

26. Because it is the Father’s will that Christ should lose nothing.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

27. Because one cannot be unborn.

John 3:5: “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

28. The believer will follow Christ.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Following Christ, can one be lost? Have we any right to add to God’s Word by inserting if” to the passage?

29. The believers continue with God.

1 John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

30. Because it is the believer’s faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”

Believe in the original means obey.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JPT
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,312
3,618
113
"Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."—Acts 26:19-20

Why did Paul teach people they should perform deeds in keeping with repentance if it didn't matter? If it's impossible for someone genuinely born again to to not perform deeds in keeping with repentance, why even mention it?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,103
113
Believe in the original means obey.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JPT
Even IF, and it doesn't, but even IF it meant "obey", it would mean obey the Gospel, which means "believe". And certainly NOT obey in the sense of works or "following" Jesus to attain salvation.

Here is THE definition of "believe" in those verses:

4100. pisteuó
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust​
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.


 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
"Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."—Acts 26:19-20

Why did Paul teach people they should perform deeds in keeping with repentance if it didn't matter? If it's impossible for someone genuinely born again to to not perform deeds in keeping with repentance, why even mention it?
Agreed!

We are not saved by doing good works rather we do good works because we are saved and have God working in us, compelling and empowering us to do good works.



JPT
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,103
113
Amen!


I agree we must obey the Gospel to be saved. I will take being in agreement with you any day of the week.


JPT
Boy that's great!

Now let's make sure we're talking about the SAME Gospel unto Salvation. Because Paul tells us that ANYONE who preaches a DIFFERENT Gospel is cursed:


1 Corinthians 15:3-8

New King James Version

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.


Romans 10:9-10

New King James Version

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


THIS gospel is the ONLY Gospel that saves.

If we are in accord with that, Great!

Just don't add or subtract anything from that please.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
No. Its not different than what the bible says.

Its different than your understanding of what the bible says.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Ordained doesn’t imply predestination or election. Someone can not be God’s elect the first time they hear the gospel and then years later suddenly believe and then become God’s elect.

It’s entirely a choice to believe or reject the gospel otherwise there’d be no point to preach the gospel which Jesus commanded. When we test the scripture and test the spirits of what you’re saying, it doesn’t pass the smell test. 💩
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
No, the text does NOT say that. You are trying to make hearing and following a condition for receiving eternal life.

In v.27 Jesus describes what His sheep DO. v.28 tells us the result of being given eternal life.

Those who disagree with this are basically admitting that they can't read so well.

No, I do not agree. Jesus began v.27 with the words "My sheep". That means they are already saved. The rest of v.27 describes what saved people DO, or OUGHT TO DO.

The point of v.28 is about recipients of eternal life. Jesus says He gives His sheep eternal life. He didn' say those sheep who hear and follow. It's about believing, which John 3:15, 16 and 5:24 clearly says.

Those who believe possess eternal life. And they shall never perish.
LOL - You wrote "Those who believe possess eternal life. And they shall never perish. Why don't you believe this?"
-- of course I believe that - a solid Biblical truth! What I don't believe is those that are not sheep have eternal life.
I've never said or suggested that sheep that are not His have eternal life. I've been consistent throughout: ONLY His sheep are given eternal life. If you thought I claimed that those not His can have eternal life, you are not reading well at all.

On John 10:27,28 I said: "The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
You said: "No, the text does NOT say that."
Because it doesn't say that.

v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO, NOT what His sheep MUST DO to receive eternal life.

You are reading these verses very poorly.

v.27 is a statement about what His sheep DO.
v.28 is a statement about the FACT that receiving eternal life results in never perishing.

If you are curious about how to receive eternal life, read John 3:15,16, 18, 36, 5:24, 6:47. All based on believing on Him for it.

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

OK - What about this: "Jesus' sheep hearing his voice, and following him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
Do you agree that the text says this?
Since neither verse says what you have stated and bolded here, NO I don't agree that the text says that.

No, I am just trying to say that vs. 27 says that Jesus' sheep hear and follow.
That's what I've been pointing out. v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO, but NOT a statement about HOW to receive eternal life, which you claimed it did above in your post.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Is hearing and following a condition of being a sheep or is being a sheep a result of hearing and following?
Or does hearing and following indicate the state of being as a sheep?
Please don't make this difficult. v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO, or ought to do. That's all.

Nothing in v.27 is what His sheep MUST DO to receive eternal life. See John 3:15,16,18, 36, 5:24, 6:47 for HOW to receive eternal life.