The powers that be...
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Yes and apparently God uses disobedient people and people who don’t even care about Him such as here:
Judges 2:14,5
14And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers that spoiled them, and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies. 15Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: and they were greatly distressed.
And there are many other examples. From my perspective this is in perfect harmony with Proverbs 16:4 where God made all things for Himself including the wicked.
Judges 2:14,5
14And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers that spoiled them, and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies. 15Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: and they were greatly distressed.
And there are many other examples. From my perspective this is in perfect harmony with Proverbs 16:4 where God made all things for Himself including the wicked.
Hi, Runningman.
A couple of things...
First of all, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say things like "God made the wicked" (in a previous post) or "God created the wicked" (in this post), but I'll remind everyone here that when God had finished all of his creating, he looked upon "everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good" (Gen. 1:31), and not wicked. Wickedness entered into the equation after Satan and his angels rebelled against God, and, consequently, after man disobeyed God and obeyed Satan/demons instead.
Since the words of Solomon are being quoted in this thread, let's not forget what he said here:
Ecclesiastes chapter 7
[27] Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
[28] Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
[29] Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Apparently, Solomon took his own personal count or census while seeking one who was upright, and he only found one man among a thousand, but no women.
The reason?
Because God created the wicked, as in God originally created wicked people?
No.
Instead, God has made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions or gone astray from him of their own free will choices.
Anyhow, I'm NOT suggesting that you were saying that God originally created man in a wicked condition, but I wanted to clarify this just in case anybody reading this thread might come away with a wrong conclusion.
Secondly, God definitely uses the wicked to fulfill his desires.
For example, we read:
Isaiah chapter 10
[5] O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
[6] I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
[7] Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
[8] For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?
[9] Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
[10] As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
[11] Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
[12] Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
[13] For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
[14] And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
[15] Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
[16] Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
[17] And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
[18] And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.
[19] And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
God is the one who sent the King of Assyria against the nation of Israel while calling him "the rod of my anger" and "my indignation". Yes, the King of Assyria would ultimately perform God's whole work before ultimately being judged himself. And why would he ultimately be judged? Well, because he proudly thought that he was destroying in his own strength and wisdom when, in reality, God likened him to an axe that he was hewing with or a staff which he had lifted up.
Anyhow, there are many examples in scripture where God used Satan, demons, or ungodly men to do his bidding for him. That said, this still doesn't mean that God created any of them to be wicked. Instead, he merely uses their wickedness to fulfill his own plans and purposes.
A couple of things...
First of all, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say things like "God made the wicked" (in a previous post) or "God created the wicked" (in this post), but I'll remind everyone here that when God had finished all of his creating, he looked upon "everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good" (Gen. 1:31), and not wicked. Wickedness entered into the equation after Satan and his angels rebelled against God, and, consequently, after man disobeyed God and obeyed Satan/demons instead.
Since the words of Solomon are being quoted in this thread, let's not forget what he said here:
Ecclesiastes chapter 7
[27] Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
[28] Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
[29] Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Apparently, Solomon took his own personal count or census while seeking one who was upright, and he only found one man among a thousand, but no women.
The reason?
Because God created the wicked, as in God originally created wicked people?
No.
Instead, God has made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions or gone astray from him of their own free will choices.
Anyhow, I'm NOT suggesting that you were saying that God originally created man in a wicked condition, but I wanted to clarify this just in case anybody reading this thread might come away with a wrong conclusion.
Secondly, God definitely uses the wicked to fulfill his desires.
For example, we read:
Isaiah chapter 10
[5] O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
[6] I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
[7] Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
[8] For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?
[9] Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
[10] As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
[11] Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
[12] Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
[13] For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
[14] And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
[15] Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
[16] Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
[17] And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
[18] And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.
[19] And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
God is the one who sent the King of Assyria against the nation of Israel while calling him "the rod of my anger" and "my indignation". Yes, the King of Assyria would ultimately perform God's whole work before ultimately being judged himself. And why would he ultimately be judged? Well, because he proudly thought that he was destroying in his own strength and wisdom when, in reality, God likened him to an axe that he was hewing with or a staff which he had lifted up.
Anyhow, there are many examples in scripture where God used Satan, demons, or ungodly men to do his bidding for him. That said, this still doesn't mean that God created any of them to be wicked. Instead, he merely uses their wickedness to fulfill his own plans and purposes.
I hear you and I think all of that’s accurate, but I have a different perspective and it’s along the lines of Isaiah 45.
Isaiah 45:7
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The word plainly says God creates evil. I don’t shy away from that at.
From my perspective that aligns perfect with Proverbs 16:4.
Isaiah 45:7
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The word plainly says God creates evil. I don’t shy away from that at.
From my perspective that aligns perfect with Proverbs 16:4.
I think Romans is speaking to righteous rulers but, on the assertion regarding evil rulers, I'm not convinced that we are commanded to submit rather than more than less trust that God's word is being fulfilled.
Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
the ten horns and the beast will hate the woman riding on it, and will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire (Rev 17:16)
Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
the ten horns and the beast will hate the woman riding on it, and will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire (Rev 17:16)
I had a feeling that you, or somebody else, were/was going to quote Isaiah 45:7.
I'm not going to go into a long discourse on that verse (although I could), but I will simply say this...
That verse clearly contains two contrasts:
1. Light versus darkness.
2. Peace versus evil.
In other words, this "evil" is referring to calamities or that which disrupts a peaceful situation. It most definitely is not suggesting that God is the source of any type of "evil" as in the totally different contrast between "good and evil".
I'm not going to go into a long discourse on that verse (although I could), but I will simply say this...
That verse clearly contains two contrasts:
1. Light versus darkness.
2. Peace versus evil.
In other words, this "evil" is referring to calamities or that which disrupts a peaceful situation. It most definitely is not suggesting that God is the source of any type of "evil" as in the totally different contrast between "good and evil".
But "evil", in the sense of calamity or distress, is literally what he said.
How can we know for sure?
By looking at what it was contrasted with.
The underlying Hebrew word which is translated as "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 is "raʿ", and it could mean either "evil" or "calamity", depending upon its usage.
In Isaiah 45:7, the word appears in the form of a masculine noun, and here are its different meanings when used that way:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7451/kjv/wlc/0-1/
masculine noun
II. evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
A. evil, distress, adversity
B. evil, injury, wrong
C. evil (ethical)
As you can see, again, it could literally mean "evil", "distress", "misery", "injury", or "calamity", and I'm heavily suggesting to you that it literally means "distress", "misery", "injury", or "calamity" in Isaiah 45:7 because of the underlying Hebrew word that it is contrasted with.
For example, this same underlying Hebrew word of "ra'" appears in Genesis 2:9 in relation to "the tree of knowledge of good and evil (ra')".
"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil (ra')." (Genesis 2:9 - parentheses mine)
Here, "ra'" is contrasted with the underlying Hebrew word "ṭôḇ" which literally means "good", and you can verify this for yourself here:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h2896/kjv/wlc/0-1/
However, and this is a BIG HOWEVER, in Isaiah 45:7, this word "ra'" is contrasted with a totally different underlying Hebrew word or with "šālôm", which literally means "peace", as in Shalom, and you can verify this for yourself here:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7965/kjv/wlc/0-1/
It is precisely for this reason that most Bible translations translate "ra'" as "disaster", or "bad times", or "calamity" , or "sorrow", or "woe" in Isaiah 45:7 as can easily be verified here:
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm
New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.
English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Berean Study Bible
I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things.
King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’
New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.
NASB 1995
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
NASB 1977
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
Amplified Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.
Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things.”
American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For he formed light and he created darkness, he made peace and he created evil. I AM LORD JEHOVAH, I who have done all these things
Brenton Septuagint Translation
I am he that prepared light, and formed darkness; who make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord God, that does all these things.
Contemporary English Version
I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all this.
Douay-Rheims Bible
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
Good News Translation
I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the LORD, do all these things.
International Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.
JPS Tanakh 1917
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
Literal Standard Version
Forming light, and creating darkness, Making peace, and creating calamity, I [am] YHWH, doing all these things.
New American Bible
I form the light, and create the darkness, I make weal and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.
NET Bible
I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.
New Revised Standard Version
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.
New Heart English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am the LORD, who does all these things.
World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'
Anyhow, CONTEXT is extremely important when seeking to determine exactly what God said and meant...especially when a particular word has more than one meaning or application.
God definitely created the tree, but where did the "evil" part of "the knowledge of good and evil" come from?
Did God create that "evil" in the form of evil?
No, he did not.
I could quote you scripture to back this allegation that I'm about to make, but, hopefully, that won't even be necessary.
I'm assuming (Are there any safe assumptions on this forum?) that you believe that God initially created everything "very good" (Gen. 1:31), and that Satan and his angels ultimately rebelled against God, and that this is where "evil" came from. If I'm wrong in my assumption, then I'll provide scriptural support for my allegation in another response.
How can we know for sure?
By looking at what it was contrasted with.
The underlying Hebrew word which is translated as "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 is "raʿ", and it could mean either "evil" or "calamity", depending upon its usage.
In Isaiah 45:7, the word appears in the form of a masculine noun, and here are its different meanings when used that way:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7451/kjv/wlc/0-1/
masculine noun
II. evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
A. evil, distress, adversity
B. evil, injury, wrong
C. evil (ethical)
As you can see, again, it could literally mean "evil", "distress", "misery", "injury", or "calamity", and I'm heavily suggesting to you that it literally means "distress", "misery", "injury", or "calamity" in Isaiah 45:7 because of the underlying Hebrew word that it is contrasted with.
For example, this same underlying Hebrew word of "ra'" appears in Genesis 2:9 in relation to "the tree of knowledge of good and evil (ra')".
"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil (ra')." (Genesis 2:9 - parentheses mine)
Here, "ra'" is contrasted with the underlying Hebrew word "ṭôḇ" which literally means "good", and you can verify this for yourself here:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h2896/kjv/wlc/0-1/
However, and this is a BIG HOWEVER, in Isaiah 45:7, this word "ra'" is contrasted with a totally different underlying Hebrew word or with "šālôm", which literally means "peace", as in Shalom, and you can verify this for yourself here:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7965/kjv/wlc/0-1/
It is precisely for this reason that most Bible translations translate "ra'" as "disaster", or "bad times", or "calamity" , or "sorrow", or "woe" in Isaiah 45:7 as can easily be verified here:
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm
New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.
English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Berean Study Bible
I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things.
King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’
New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.
NASB 1995
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
NASB 1977
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
Amplified Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.
Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things.”
American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For he formed light and he created darkness, he made peace and he created evil. I AM LORD JEHOVAH, I who have done all these things
Brenton Septuagint Translation
I am he that prepared light, and formed darkness; who make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord God, that does all these things.
Contemporary English Version
I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all this.
Douay-Rheims Bible
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
Good News Translation
I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the LORD, do all these things.
International Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.
JPS Tanakh 1917
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
Literal Standard Version
Forming light, and creating darkness, Making peace, and creating calamity, I [am] YHWH, doing all these things.
New American Bible
I form the light, and create the darkness, I make weal and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.
NET Bible
I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.
New Revised Standard Version
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.
New Heart English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am the LORD, who does all these things.
World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'
Anyhow, CONTEXT is extremely important when seeking to determine exactly what God said and meant...especially when a particular word has more than one meaning or application.
God definitely created the tree, but where did the "evil" part of "the knowledge of good and evil" come from?
Did God create that "evil" in the form of evil?
No, he did not.
I could quote you scripture to back this allegation that I'm about to make, but, hopefully, that won't even be necessary.
I'm assuming (Are there any safe assumptions on this forum?) that you believe that God initially created everything "very good" (Gen. 1:31), and that Satan and his angels ultimately rebelled against God, and that this is where "evil" came from. If I'm wrong in my assumption, then I'll provide scriptural support for my allegation in another response.
I'm not disagreeing with you. God has a right to test any normal thinking person on earth. The idea that God wants anyone to rebel against him is not found in scripture. It's apparent from the passage you cited that the spoilers didn't need a whole lot to push them into the dark,
Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away. Isa.50:1
Goes perfectly with the passage you cited and everything I've been saying. Agreed?
Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away. Isa.50:1
Goes perfectly with the passage you cited and everything I've been saying. Agreed?
When the Lord caused king Sihon of Heshbon to rebel against Israel, Sihon was rebelling against God . . . and this is at the design and control of the Lord Himself.
Deuteronomy 2:30 NIV - "But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done."
Deuteronomy 2:30 NIV - "But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done."
Yes, just as God used Pharaohs prideful heart against him by sending his lowly servant Moses to him. Sihon is really no different. And here's something else,
And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: Deut.2:34
By the gospel of our Christ, it makes perfect sense for us to interpret "left none to remain" in a spiritual sense, where the flesh, that is, the evil inclination of the Amorites hearts, is what is put to death. 😊
And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: Deut.2:34
By the gospel of our Christ, it makes perfect sense for us to interpret "left none to remain" in a spiritual sense, where the flesh, that is, the evil inclination of the Amorites hearts, is what is put to death. 😊
I see. My Bibles tell me that God hardened Pharaoh's heart . . . not that it was initially prideful.
Exo 4:21 NLT - ",And the LORD told Moses, "When you arrive back in Egypt, go to Pharaoh and perform all the miracles I have empowered you to do. But I will harden his heart so he will refuse to let the people go."
Actually, God called to wipe out the Seven Nations multiple times, but ultimately God Himself made sure that a remnant of them remained. Thus, these were real deaths and slaughters of abominations.
Judges 3:1-2 NKJV - "Now these are the nations which the LORD left, that He might test Israel by them, that is, all who had not known any of the wars in Canaan (this was only so that the generations of the children of Israel might be taught to know war, at least those who had not formerly known it) . . ."
I don't mean to be argumentative . . . just sharing the information that I've cataloged about these Nations of abominations called to be completely wiped out.
Exo 4:21 NLT - ",And the LORD told Moses, "When you arrive back in Egypt, go to Pharaoh and perform all the miracles I have empowered you to do. But I will harden his heart so he will refuse to let the people go."
Actually, God called to wipe out the Seven Nations multiple times, but ultimately God Himself made sure that a remnant of them remained. Thus, these were real deaths and slaughters of abominations.
Judges 3:1-2 NKJV - "Now these are the nations which the LORD left, that He might test Israel by them, that is, all who had not known any of the wars in Canaan (this was only so that the generations of the children of Israel might be taught to know war, at least those who had not formerly known it) . . ."
I don't mean to be argumentative . . . just sharing the information that I've cataloged about these Nations of abominations called to be completely wiped out.
I can see where someone who was told he was god on earth, as Pharaol believed himself to be, would be "initially prideful" by the time Moses showed up. If you can't see it this way, I'm fine with it.
I have no problem with the texts you're citing. Younger believers are tested by the unloving who are left. That hasn't changed throughout history.
I understand what you're saying. I get that Israel went to war and killed people. I make sense of it by Jesus' gospel, which is the death of the flesh and new life in his Spirit.
I have no problem with the texts you're citing. Younger believers are tested by the unloving who are left. That hasn't changed throughout history.
I understand what you're saying. I get that Israel went to war and killed people. I make sense of it by Jesus' gospel, which is the death of the flesh and new life in his Spirit.
F.Y.I.
Romans 13:1
(excerpt)
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers
The apostle having finished his exhortations to this church, in relation to the several duties incumbent upon both officers and private Christians, as members of a church, and with reference to each other, and their moral conduct in the world; proceeds to advise, direct, and exhort them to such duties as were relative to them as members of a civil society; the former chapter contains his Christian Ethics, and this his Christian Politics.
Romans 13 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Expalins what "poweres" the Apostle was writing about......
Romans 13:1
(excerpt)
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers
The apostle having finished his exhortations to this church, in relation to the several duties incumbent upon both officers and private Christians, as members of a church, and with reference to each other, and their moral conduct in the world; proceeds to advise, direct, and exhort them to such duties as were relative to them as members of a civil society; the former chapter contains his Christian Ethics, and this his Christian Politics.
Romans 13 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Expalins what "poweres" the Apostle was writing about......