Adam was not deceived but chose to eat of the forbidden tree. Why?

[posthuman]

I look at the contrast between her answered that, 'the serpent deceived me,' and his answer that, "the woman gave it to me," and
but he didn't answer, "he woman You gave me was deceived, and gave me it," and I wonder if Adam had known that Eve was deceived, or if this has any relevant correlation to the reason that he was not deceived.

I wonder whether he is blaming her and God
Or whether he is explaining why he made the choice to eat

As in, God gave her to be with him, so he chose to be with her

 

[Mem]

whose idea was it to stay away from the tree of life after they both had death in them?

when God kept the way to the tree of life, and cast them out of the garden to prevent them from eating of it -- is God doing this because it is a good thing to prevent them? i.e. is God being good?
or is God punishing them, withholding the 'medicine' that would save them? i.e. is God being vindictive?

IMO God did this to save them; eating from the tree of life in their death-state would mean eternal condemnation for them.
so God keeps the way to the tree of life, until the Son should come, and through His blood make a way for us to approach it, that we may have eternal life in Him instead of eternal death.
God is good -- everything He does is good.
it is good that God prevented them from 'eventually' going to the tree of life; it would be bad for them if they had - in the same way taking communion in an unworthy manner is damning ((1 Corinthians 11:27)).

i say 'eventually' because: how long did it take them to make fig-leaf garments? probably at least an hour, right? maybe quite a bit longer? possibly several hours? and how long would it take them to go eat from the tree of life? 5 minutes?
so whose idea was it to go occupy themselves with fig leaves instead of take the 'antidote' if the tree of life is an antidote for the poison they had taken?
seems to me someone was wise enough to know that eating from the tree of life would have been an incredibly bad idea. that they had a plan. i mean how much of an idiot do you have to be if you've got death in you and you've got a tree called 'life' but it doesn't occur to you to go get some life? no-brainer? unless you were smart enough to know that was actually the last thing you should do in that situation.

Given that the one tree is of the knowledge of good and evil, can we deduct (or is it induction?) that the tree of life is the tree of life and death? or is rather more proper that the tokogae to be regarded as the tree of death?

I wonder whether he is blaming her and God
Or whether he is explaining why he made the choice to eat

As in, God gave her to be with him, so he chose to be with her

or For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. something like, "the woman you gave me, in turn, she gave that to me... and so, I could/did not refuse either "gift'?

*explanation of the words in red... I was editing my post to add more thoughts and meant to shift or enter or something other than what is there (getting adjusted to a new computer's keyboard), which apparently was pasting text from somewhere else tho I don't know from where, but I decided to leave it seeing the eerily relevance the thought might have on this topic...
atm, I don't remember what additional thoughts I had now. I'll post them if and when they come back to me.

 

[Mem]

atm, I don't remember what additional thoughts I had now. I'll post them if and when they come back to m

I remember now, it had to do with examining the appropriateness of Adam's judgment. I'm going to let it simmer a bit now though (a couple of distractions have come up), before fleshing it out on here.

 

[posthuman]

or For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. something like, "the woman you gave me, in turn, she gave that to me... and so, I could/did not refuse either "gift'?

*explanation of the words in red... I was editing my post to add more thoughts and meant to shift or enter or something other than what is there (getting adjusted to a new computer's keyboard), which apparently was pasting text from somewhere else tho I don't know from where, but I decided to leave it seeing the eerily relevance the thought might have on this topic...
atm, I don't remember what additional thoughts I had now. I'll post them if and when they come back to me.

something like, 'the woman you gave with me ((hence i am responsible for, and to whom i am betrothed)), she gave me of the tree ((i saw she had fallen; she showed me what she had done)), and i ate ((i confess my sin))'

this to me seems much more plausible than 'the woman you gave with me ((this is your fault God; you are evil and caused my sin)), she gave me of the tree ((this is her fault God, she is evil & i didn't have anything to do with it)), and i ate ((i was deceived by you God and by the evil woman you forced on me))'



the plausibility isn't limited to God's reaction, but that reaction sure does corroborate it.
Satan is undoubtedly the chief Accuser; the one accusing God of evil.
does God treat Adam like Satan?

God doesn't even allow Satan to speak in the court. He curses him and prophesies his destruction.
does God curse Adam? no; He curses the ground for Adam's sake. does God prophesy Adam's destruction? no. He prophesies his salvation.

so how can we interpret Adam's words and actions as equivalent to the actions of Satan, with a straight face?

 

[Mem]

so how can we interpret Adam's words and actions as equivalent to the actions of Satan, with a straight face?

Whoever may laugh, I'm not ruling the interpretation out just yet. Afterall, there is an instance where Jesus equated Peter with Satan. Besides, how can we avoid repeating any mistakes if we haven't come to understand what it exactly is. God cursed the ground for Adam's sake so, this tells me that making Adam toil for the harvest is for his own good, as Eve's pain in childbirth is also most likely to teach her the value of something, and I my intent to zero in on that so I can determine a more accurate weight of it.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Ok, I figured this was where it came from, thank you. This is why I highlighted A-Sword's transcription? of that passage.



God's word is still in effect, yes always. His word never passes away according to scripture. However, you've represented his word as "God tells Eve to...." rather than the "God tells Eve that..." which is more perfect representation of what God tells of and also to Eve.
It complicates the effort in trying to keep the reading of scripture honest, but all too easy to alter the understanding entirely by adding just a little two letter word such as 'to' in a place it doesn't belong. i.e. "God tells Eve to obey her husband" and in this case, there is more than just a two letter word that doesn't fit in the exact transliteration of this particular passage, even though other words might. For example, God didn't tell Eve what you've claimed but told her that her husband would rule over her, or with the context of the statement, that btw was not a command, added...."Your desire will be for your husband and he will lord it over you."

It is a command, and an important one as well. You can actually measure how deeply into the service of Satan a woman is by how much she rebels against and worms around these commands of the Living God. You can measure how wicked the men are by how much they support and allow whoredom and feminism of the women. Woe and disaster and indescribable suffering to the shameful generations that did every single thing wrong in the eyes of God in defying the holy commands of God and tried to change the right ways into the ways that are wrong! Woe to them for the judgements of God be upon their fallen society already for these things!

 

[ChristianTonyB]

At the end of the day we can conjecture, assume, interpolate and extrapolate about who did what and when, and some of us might be right or partially right in our conclusions. But the reality is, that God passed judgement on Adam and Eve and sentenced both to hard labour and to eventually physically die. It is interesting to talk about it, but the fait accompli is that God drove both out of His presence.

Soooo, what now? We can’t change God’s order of things, so how do we live our God given separate gender roles and responsibilities out in our marriages, and in the present day church? These roles and responsibilities haven’t been changed by God since church day 1!

 

[Mem]

It is a command, and an important one as well. You can actually measure how deeply into the service of Satan a woman is by how much she rebels against and worms around these commands of the Living God. You can measure how wicked the men are by how much they support and allow whoredom and feminism of the women. Woe and disaster and indescribable suffering to the shameful generations that did every single thing wrong in the eyes of God in defying the holy commands of God and tried to change the right ways into the ways that are wrong! Woe to them for the judgements of God be upon their fallen society already for these things!

This is an obvious appeal to the stick based on faulty premises. You are effectively shaking your nubby stick at me and expect me to believe is is the Sword of God.

 

[Mem]

At the end of the day we can conjecture, assume, interpolate and extrapolate about who did what and when, and some of us might be right or partially right in our conclusions. But the reality is, that God passed judgement on Adam and Eve and sentenced both to hard labour and to eventually physically die. It is interesting to talk about it, but the fait accompli is that God drove both out of His presence.

Soooo, what now? We can’t change God’s order of things, so how do we live our God given separate gender roles and responsibilities out in our marriages, and in the present day church? These roles and responsibilities haven’t been changed by God since church day 1!

Suggestion that I am changing God's order of things doesn't prove that I am changing God's order of things.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

This is an obvious appeal to the stick based on faulty premises. You are effectively shaking your nubby stick at me and expect me to believe is is the Sword of God.

I don't care if you believe or not, God won't change his mind either way whether you do or not.

 

[Mem]

I don't care if you believe or not, God won't change his mind either way whether you do or not.

I've never even suggested that God would change His mind, only that you may not know God's mind as well as you might like to imagine that you do.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5:12

Also 1 Corinthians 15:21. In Romans 5 it may be prudent to read to verse 21

 

[posthuman]

Ok, I figured this was where it came from, thank you. This is why I highlighted A-Sword's transcription? of that passage.



God's word is still in effect, yes always. His word never passes away according to scripture. However, you've represented his word as "God tells Eve to...." rather than the "God tells Eve that..." which is more perfect representation of what God tells of and also to Eve.
It complicates the effort in trying to keep the reading of scripture honest, but all too easy to alter the understanding entirely by adding just a little two letter word such as 'to' in a place it doesn't belong. i.e. "God tells Eve to obey her husband" and in this case, there is more than just a two letter word that doesn't fit in the exact transliteration of this particular passage, even though other words might. For example, God didn't tell Eve what you've claimed but told her that her husband would rule over her, or with the context of the statement, that btw was not a command, added...."Your desire will be for your husband and he will lord it over you."

I agree the pronouncement of Adam & Eves chastisements are declarations, not commandments.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

I've never even suggested that God would change His mind, only that you may not know God's mind as well as you might like to imagine that you do.

My existence or nonexistence also will not change God's mind nor stop his Sore Judgements that he has started passing on this society for exactly these things.

 

[Mem]

My existence or nonexistence also will not change God's mind nor stop his Sore Judgements that he has started passing on this society for exactly these things.

Neither can any prevent God righting all wrongs.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Neither can any prevent God righting all wrongs.

Exactly. All God has asked is that these shameful generations that do everything wrong acknowledge that their ways are all totally wrong and that God has indeed been judging them. If they do that God will spare. If they do not do this then the next Sore Judgement comes.

 

[Mem]

Exactly. All God has asked is that these shameful generations that do everything wrong acknowledge that their ways are all totally wrong and that God has indeed been judging them. If they do that God will spare. If they do not do this then the next Sore Judgement comes.

You say "they," but the only real control anybody has over anyone is over "I."

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

You say "they," but the only real control anybody has over anyone is over "I."

It's not about control. If the society, which is "they", do not acknowledge their ways are extremely evil and also acknowledge that God has been judging them, then God will certainly pour out the next sore judgement, and after that judgement all that is left is the Sword and no civilization ever survives the Sword.

 

[Lanolin]

God did punish Adam, He cursed Adam by making him work cos Adam was lazy and had everything handed to him.

 

[Magenta]

God did punish Adam, He cursed Adam by making him work cos Adam was lazy and had everything handed to him.

Adam was to tend the garden even before the "fall of man."

The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. Gen. 2:15