Who Justifieth the Ungodly

brightfame52 · Jun 19, 2022

Matthew 25 sure does have something to do with Rom 12:3 because Rom 12:3 states that God has given to every man ... not just every man among you (the church) ... God has given the measure of faith to every man, all mankind. All descendants of Adam have been given a measure of faith.

And then in Matthew 25, we read of the giving of talents. Of the three given talents, one of them went and buried his ... did nothing at all with it ... just as some do nothing with the faith God has given them but believe the lies of the adversary. So they take that faith which God gave them to believe in Him and waste it, just like the guy who buried his treasure in Matthew 25.

Of course you are going to ignore Scripture which shines a light on your erroneous dogma. Much better to ignore truth than bring your dogma into alignment with Scripture.

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Matt 25 has nothing to do with Rom 12:3

brightfame52 · Jun 19, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

You might as well keep the law to be Justified !

brightfame52 · Jun 19, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You can deny all you want ... your denial of Scripture does not affect the truth of Scripture. Your denial only affects you in your relationship with God.
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As long as you teach that Christ Jesus died for all mankind, you teach a false gospel !

brightfame52 · Jun 19, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

Romans 5:1 says absolutely nothing about Faith being required for Justification, again thats a false message. Sure Rom 5:1 says something about Justified by Faith, I agree with that, for the Justified will be given Faith to believe in Jesus.

brightfame52 · Jun 19, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

no, brightfame52, you have not addressed the issue. All you are doing is repeating your mantra while ignoring the issue I raised.

Again ... you stated in Post 1510:

This security from the wrath of God has nothing to do with mans faith, or repentance

keep in mind that you have stated that this security "has nothing to do with mans faith, or repentance"

Again ... my reply in Post 1516,:

According to Scripture, the above statement is not true ...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 2:38 and Acts 3:19 clearly state the believer receives the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), and is converted (Acts 3:19), upon repentance. To receive Holy Spirit equals being born again.

And Romans 5:1 clearly states the believer is justified by faith.

Bring your dogma into alignment with Scripture. Do not attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

At this point, I am uncertain whether you have a reading comprehension problem or whether you are being intentionally obtuse. Whichever is your problem, you have not addressed the truth found in Scripture.
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The issue is addressed, those Christ died for and Justified are saved from wrath. Rom 5:8-9

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

No one Christ died for need to fear Gods wrath, and God will give them Faith in His Blood !

FreeGrace2 · Jun 19, 2022

brightfame52 said:

john 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
2 Cor 5-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
1 Tim 2-
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Those who teach that Jesus Christ DIDN'T die for everyone teaches a false gospel.

Now, I've shown you mine, now you show me yours.

The single BEST and clearest verse that makes clear that He died ONLY for some.

Sipsey · Jun 19, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Romans 9:30
[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

[31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

[32] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

[33] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

brightfame52 · Jun 20, 2022

Sipsey said:

Romans 9:30
[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

[31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

[32] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

[33] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Why did you post that passage ? Those who Christ died for are still delivered from Gods Wrath and Justified !

FreeGrace2 · Jun 20, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Only the believers for whom Christ died. All the others will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Since NO time limit on "have not believed" was included, it means "have NEVER believed".

That's who will be condemned. Christ died for everyone, but those who "have not believed" (never believed) will be condemned.

That is the gospel truth.

Any deviation from this is FALSE DOCTRINE.

brightfame52 · Jun 21, 2022

Justification based upon an condition !

Those who teach that they are Justified before God, based on their act of faith, obedience or some kind of condition performed, they are in essence claiming more responsibility for their Justification than God had, for according to their reasoning, all that God did through Christ still left them in a unjustified state, but what they did in performing the condition and as an supplement, is what actually Justified them before God !
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Sipsey · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

I agree our role is simply to agree or disagree, believe or disbelieve. How man’s volition and God’s sovereignty coexist has been debated since the world came into existence. Your view amounts to your opinion. When you declare simple belief as a work, you are on slippery slope.

FreeGrace2 · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

No, in fact, they are FOLLOWING God's plan for their justification.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

FreeGrace2 · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:
Justification based upon an condition !

Those who teach that they are Justified before God, based on their act of faith, obedience or some kind of condition performed, they are in essence claiming more responsibility for their Justification than God had, for according to their reasoning, all that God did through Christ still left them in a unjustified state, but what they did in performing the condition and as an supplement, is what actually Justified them before God !
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Sipsey said:

And yet, it's so very simple and clear. God, in His absolute sovereignty, GAVE humans the freedom to choose, which is what free will actually is. Nothing more than that. But Calvinists must describe "free will" in a way that makes it "powerful" and "evil" etc.

Demonizing what they dont even understand.

So true!!

The other poster will probably fire back with John 6:29. However, since the Jews asked Jesus what work did God require for eternal life, Jesus used their own words in His answer. Sorta tongue-in-cheek.

The Greek didn't use quote marks, but that's basically what Jesus said. 'Work' in quote marks.

brightfame52 · Jun 21, 2022

Sipsey said:

You still using a condition. Thats sandy ground friend !

reneweddaybyday · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

nope ... the Object of "our Faith, Namely Christ, hath Justified us and made us Righteous."
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

I have shown you the correlation ... that you do not agree does not negate the correlation.
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

You disagree with Scripture. It is Scripture which teaches the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You can deny all you want ... your denial of Scripture does not affect the truth of Scripture. Your denial only affects you in your relationship with God.
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Your refusal to read the verse in the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed the verse does not negate the fact that God imputes righteousness to those who believe (have faith).

brightfame52 said:

seriously? 79 pages into this thread and you finally "agree" that "Rom 5:1 says something about Justified by Faith"?

Romans 5:1 says more than just "something about Justified by Faith", especially if you read the verse within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed the verse.

Why don't you just believe what is written? Instead of the mental gymnastics you go through to support your erroneous dogma, just believe what God tells us ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

No brightfame52. You have not addressed the issue and I do not believe you are capable of honestly addressing the issue.

I am not speaking of those who are "saved from wrath".

Again, I am speaking of your comment in your Post 1510 wherein you stated security has "nothing to do with mans faith or repentance".

And in Post 1516, I provided Scripture which clearly indicates that repentance and faith are required before a person receives the gift of Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38) and/or is converted (Acts 3:19). Conversion and receiving Holy Spirit = to be born again. The born again one is justified before God by faith (Romans 5:1)

Again, your intentional obtuseness is clearly on display in this conversation …

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reneweddaybyday · Jun 21, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Name the "those who teach" as you have claimed, brightfame52.

It appears to me that all who have posted on this thread are in agreement that it is God Who justifies based solely on His grace.

The fact that you claim faith is something that it is not does not make your claim accurate.

And if you believe you are automatically justified because you believe you're "elect", you are sadly mistaken. If the Lord Jesus Christ is not Lord in your life and if you have not believed in your heart that God raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead, you will find yourself in the same boat as those we read about in Rev 20:15.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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