Contradiction or Harmony?

[p_rehbein]

Maybe it's time to join a different forum since this one causes so much internal angst.

So, you are going to join another Forum? Or, did you mean Site? A Forum is just one part of the Site.....just saying

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

So, you are going to join another Forum? Or, did you mean Site? A Forum is just one part of the Site.....just saying

What I'm [not] going to do is play your silly games.

 

[montana123]

Is this a contradiction? Or in context do we have harmony?

Matthew 5:17-18 ESV
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.


Ephesians 2:15-16 ESV
15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

This is not a contradiction for the first scripture says the law has to be fulfilled which Jesus fulfilled the law by being a sinless man, a perfect saint, and fulfilled all the roles of Israel, King, High Priest, Prophet, and whatever else had to be fulfilled, and was the temple and sacrifice.

The second scripture is not talking about the law that Jesus had to fulfill which is the law of love, the moral laws, but the commandments of physical ordinances like meat, and drink, and holy days, which are abolished in the New Testament and have no bearing on salvation.

Jesus fulfilled the law that was spiritual, and the ordinances are physical.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus took away the physical ordinances of Israel because they have no bearing on salvation but only applied in the Old Testament.

These are 2 different laws in these 2 scriptures one spiritual and the other physical.

 

[GaryA]

What I'm [not] going to do is play your silly games.

It is not a silly game - he is correct - it is simply about using the correct terminology.

Site
Forum
Thread
Post

Each of these words is referring to a specific thing.

Using the correct term helps cut down confusion...

 

[Runningman]

Is this a contradiction? Or in context do we have harmony?

Matthew 5:17-18 ESV
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.


Ephesians 2:15-16 ESV
15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

The “Law or the Prophets” is a reference to the Old Testament. Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets because He kept the law perfectly and He fulfilled every prophecy about Himself.

Jesus said not an iota would pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Jesus fulfilled the Law which means that iotas and dots can pass from the Law now.

Therefore, Ephesians 2:15-16 is accurate. The Old Testament section known as the Law still exists, but the codified Law of Moses is irrelevant at this point.

From my perspective there isn’t any contradiction there.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It is not a silly game - he is correct - it is simply about using the correct terminology.

Site
Forum
Thread
Post

Each of these words is referring to a specific thing.

Using the correct term helps cut down confusion...

Oh . . . okie doke. Then perhaps you all ought to go to Christian Forums and straighten them out. "Christians" are the most picky, critical, judgmental people on the planet.

Christian Forums

 

[Isaskar]

God's inspired Word doesn't contradict.

Its just that the contradictions are completely okay as the covenants are different.

For example, what God told Noah contradicts what God told Moses. The dietary laws. What gives? Well, different covenant is what gives, and that explains the contradiction. No problem.

 

[GaryA]

Then perhaps you all ought to go to Christian Forums and straighten them out.

If you will carefully notice - in the name of the site - Christian Forums - it is plural - meaning - a collection of forums.

The site itself - as a whole - is not a 'forum' - it is a 'site'.

I do understand why people use the singular term 'forum' to describe the site as a whole.

It comes from trying to convey a representation of a physical world forum in the abstract of an internet site.

In this context, a forum is a gathering of people in an abstract place.

Unfortunately, in the abstract - the word has incorrectly been assigned to the medium for the forum. (such as, a website)

This is technically incorrect - and, is due to human laziness.

The site itself is not the forum - the forum is on the site.

It is confusion to call both the forum on the site and the site itself 'forum'.

In a few places Christian Forums incorrectly use the term 'forum' - assigning it to the site instead of a forum on the site.

Perhaps they do need a little correction...

 

[GaryA]

In a few places Christian Forums incorrectly use the term 'forum' - assigning it to the site instead of a forum on the site.

Perhaps they do need a little correction...

In such cases, where they are referring to the site, they should use the word 'site' and not the word 'forum'.

 

[TheLearner]

Are prophecies also laws?

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.

He came not to abolish the law or the Prophets, but to fulfill.

So Paul's abolish had to be speaking to the hostility between Jew, Gentile, and the inner human nature that could never keep the whole law.

I am refering to the books of Moses aka as the Torah which contains prophecies.

Genesis 3:15 comes to mind.

Genesis 3:15
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her [a]Offspring; He will bruise and tread your head underfoot, and you will lie in wait and bruise His heel.

44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled
Prophecies About Jesus Old Testament
Scripture
New Testament
Fulfillment
1 Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4
2 Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-6
3 Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31
4 Messiah would come from the line of Abraham.
Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18
Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5
5 Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac.
Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34
6 Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Numbers 24:17 Matthew 1:2
7 Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:14
8 Messiah would be heir to King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7
Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3
9 Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44
Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-12
10 Messiah would be called Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
11 Messiah would spend a season in Egypt. Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:14-15
12 A massacre of children would happen at
Messiah's birthplace. Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16-18
13 A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah Isaiah 40:3-5 Luke 3:3-6
14 Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3
John 1:11
John 7:5
15 Messiah would be a prophet. Deuteronomy
18:15 Acts 3:20-22
16 Messiah would be preceded by Elijah. Malachi 4:5-6 Matthew 11:13-14
17 Messiah would be declared the Son of God. Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:16-17
18 Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Isaiah 11:1 Matthew 2:23
19 Messiah would bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:13-16
20 Messiah would speak in parables.
Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10
Matthew 13:10-15,
34-35
21 Messiah would be sent to heal the
brokenhearted. Isaiah 61:1-2 Luke 4:18-19
22 Messiah would be a priest after the order of
Melchizedek.
Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6
23 Messiah would be called King. Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9
Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-11
24 Messiah would be praised by little children. Psalm 8:2 Matthew 21:16
25 Messiah would be betrayed.
Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-
13
Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-
16
26 Messiah's price money would be used to buy a
potter's field.
Zechariah 11:12-
13
Matthew 27:9-
10
27 Messiah would be falsely accused. Psalm 35:11 Mark 14:57-58
28 Messiah would be silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7 Mark 15:4-5
29 Messiah would be spat upon and struck. Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67
30 Messiah would be hated without cause. Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4 John 15:24-25
31 Messiah would be crucified with criminals. Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-28
32 Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-30
33 Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10 John 20:25-27
34 Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed. Psalm 22:7-8 Luke 23:35
35 Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments. Psalm 22:18
Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-
36
36 Messiah's bones would not be broken. Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20 John 19:33-36
37 Messiah would be forsaken by God. Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
38 Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34
39 Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side. Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34
40 Messiah would be buried with the rich. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-
60
41 Messiah would resurrect from the dead. Psalm 16:10
Psalm 49:15
Matthew 28:2-7
Acts 2:22-32
42 Messiah would ascend to heaven. Psalm 24:7-10 Mark 16:19
Luke 24:51
43 Messiah would be seated at God's right hand. Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1
Mark 16:19
Matthew 22:44
44 Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8
https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/swissco...4/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

 

[TheLearner]

rth

 

[p_rehbein]

What I'm [not] going to do is play your silly games.

.....um...but you want us to play your silly games?.....

 

[p_rehbein]

Oh . . . okie doke. Then perhaps you all ought to go to Christian Forums and straighten them out. "Christians" are the most picky, critical, judgmental people on the planet.

Christian Forums

Do you not claim to be a Christian? Or, are you suggesting that if I do not agree with you, I am not a christian? silly games seem to abound, huh?

 

[TheLearner]

rth

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

.....um...but you want us to play your silly games?.....

Not al all. I'm completely happy if you never respond to anything I write.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Do you not claim to be a Christian? Or, are you suggesting that if I do not agree with you, I am not a christian? silly games seem to abound, huh?

I am a Christian. Based upon your attitude and how you treat others, your sense of Christianity is definitely something that should be tested.

1 John 4:1 NKJV - "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

That said, I have no need to interact with you in the future, so I'd prefer it if you didn't respond.

 

[Blik]

Its just that the contradictions are completely okay as the covenants are different.

For example, what God told Noah contradicts what God told Moses. The dietary laws. What gives? Well, different covenant is what gives, and that explains the contradiction. No problem.

God is reliably always the same, God always speaks from truth, that truth never changes. The covenants are given to us from this unchanging God. Both covenants give the very same law. The only thing that changed was was the presentation of that law, from laws written in stone to those laws written in our hearts. The first covenant was materialistic, it spoke to man through the flesh, and rewarded man through the flesh. The new covenant was to our hearts and contained love, written to our spirit and the rewards are of the spirit.

Do not murder in stone was not to kill others, in our hearts that command was not to harm anyone. The dietary laws in stone was not to put anything in you that was not clean, in our hearts that law was not to put anything in us that is not holy as Phil. 4:8 explains--what is of good report.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Is this a contradiction? Or in context do we have harmony?

Matthew 5:17-18 ESV
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.


Ephesians 2:15-16 ESV
15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

him fulfilling the law and prophets meant that his word now replaced what the law of Moses said and that the people were no longer restricted to Abraham’s flesh descendants but Jesus’ word is for all people who believe from every nation

for instance see Jesus fuflilled this in the prophets

“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:4-

But first he fulfilled this in the law this means the law loses its authority over to Jesus and his word Moses wrote this prophetic statement of Jesus and his words in the law

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:15, 18-19‬

Moses is already giving Christ the authority over the law by the law itself Jesus fuflilled this prophecy

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this means that Moses word of mediation to israel exclusive of others ( the law of Moses ) has been changed to what Christ said when he came and fulfilled what Moses foretold of the Christ and his words

what I’m saying is Jesus fulfilling the law and prophets is the end of tbier purpose t he were to lead everyone in the world to thoer need for Christ and his atonement for our sins. The law and prophets were t meant to last past Christ fulfilling them , Moses words lasted until Jesus spoke d she’s his own blood then they were taken away from man as a requirement

because they can only condemn sinners and never can change or save sinners Jesus words saves sinners and doesn’t condemn us but converts us and saves us , gives us new life

there are two testaments in scriotire what Moses and the prophets said is one testsment then there’s what Jesus said which is the New Testament

Moses said an “eye for an eye “ Jesus said “ no turn the other cheek “ Moses said “ if your unhappily married get divorced and remarry “ Jesus said no only divorce for fornication when Someone breaks the marriage vow and don’t remarry “

the word is as doffere t as the blood of goats v the blood of Christ so
is the word of Christ to the word of Moses

Moses was a precursor that foretells Christ as we’re the prophets revealing more of Christ ……and then , he came forth in the gospel and spoke his word died for our sins and rose up glorified forever crowned with life eternal on his throne having provided the way of salvation for believers in him

you can’t live by the old law of Moses and by the gospel somone needs to be removed and the other accepted

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

I think perhaps the translation you are using is wrong. In my Bible it says this:

Ephesians 2:15
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

So then this would still be in harmony since Jesus is not abolishing the law, but rather fulfilling the law by abolishing the enmity in the law in his flesh (by being crucified, and thus being a perfect sacrifice to make atonement for the sins of the people.)

 

[Nehemiah6]

44 Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8

I wonder why this person switched from "Christ" to "Messiah". The whole world knows about Christ, Jesus Christ, or the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no need to revert back to "Messiah" (which occurs only twice in the KJB, in Daniel 9:25 and 26).