Do not teach my people to fly to save their souls

[Thewatchman]

DO NOT TEACH MY PEOPLE​

TO FLY TO SAVE THEIR​

SOULS​

Ezekiel 13: 17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them.



Yes woman can be prophets, they was one woman that was a Judge and led the troops into battle. In the New Testament Acts 21:8&9 Philip had 4 virgin daughters that did prophesy.



Verse 18: And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?



This is the Lord God speaking here; we need to take head and listen. Woe to the woman (prophets) that sew pillows: Hold your arms out and thank about having pillows sown from the shoulder down to the wrist. Just how much use would your arms be to you then thank of having that kerchief woven in between your fingers then warped around your hand and wrist along with the pillows just how useful would your arms and hands; that is what these false prophets are doing by teaching and preaching there lies.



Verse 19. And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?



Will you: the false prophets, teachers preachers; pollute ME (God): make me dirty just so you can get money into your offering plates? By polluting Me by telling lies about me you kill the souls (the eternal life) of them that should not die then you turn right around and try and save the the lives of those I say should die with you lies. Question: Do you want to be in a place like this?



Verse 20. Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go,even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.



I am against your pillows: your lies. What are the lies that you are using to hunt and kill those souls? I (God) am going to send Jesus to fly you away before the coming of the Antichrist. I am going to rapture you away before the 7th trump when Jesus returns to set up the Millennial Kingdom.



Verse 21. Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.



I am going to remove the coverings you have put on my hands and deliver MY PEOPLE out of your hands and they shall be free and no longer hunted ; And you will know I am The Lord.



Verses 22&23. Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: 23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.



These lies you tell make the hearts of the righteous sad: They do make me sad, I am sad every time I here people proclaim the rapture as the Gospel Truth; it is a lie from Satan himself. There are those that will hear this truth and be delivered.



Lets look at some other scripture on this same subject.

Matthew 13.

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Note that the tares are gathered first and then the wheat.



Jesus gives us the answer to this parable latter in this chapter. Verses 36-43.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



Do you have an ear to hear? He that sowed the good seed is Jesus. The field is the world. Good seed = children of the Kingdom Tares= children of the wicked one(Satan) The Harvest is the end of the world. There are only 2 type people; Children of God or Children of Satan. The tares the children of Satan are taken first and cast into the furnace of fire. Then the wheat the children of God are gathered and shall shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

 

[kleronomos]

Do you have an ear to hear? He that sowed the good seed is Jesus. The field is the world. Good seed = children of the Kingdom Tares= children of the wicked one(Satan) The Harvest is the end of the world. There are only 2 type people; Children of God or Children of Satan. The tares the children of Satan are taken first and cast into the furnace of fire. Then the wheat the children of God are gathered and shall shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

So far, there is only 1 doctrine that has 'the church' flying away to heaven to save the souls of those who are looking to save their lives (no picking up their crosses and following Him) and leaving behind those who will endure to the end, and that is the PRE TRIB RAPTURE THEORY DOCTRINE.

Do you know of any other doctrine that has ever even come close to the fly away doctrine? WHAT else could God be warning us against? AND knowing it was started by a woman....

 

[Thewatchman]

So far, there is only 1 doctrine that has 'the church' flying away to heaven to save the souls of those who are looking to save their lives (no picking up their crosses and following Him) and leaving behind those who will endure to the end, and that is the PRE TRIB RAPTURE THEORY DOCTRINE.

Do you know of any other doctrine that has ever even come close to the fly away doctrine? WHAT else could God be warning us against? AND knowing it was started by a woman....

Yes I know that the rapture doctrine was started my Margaret Mac Donald. God was giving Ezekiel a prophetic message so it could very well be for us today.


Jesus told us in Mark 13:23 I have foretold you all things. It should be no surprise that this verse comes in a chapter that tells us what will happen at the end times.


Paul had to write his second letter to the Thessalonians to set them straight about there misunderstanding coming from the his first letter (chapter 4:13-18) He writes about the second coming in chapter 1 and continues into chapter 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


So it seams that there has been a misunderstanding about this for a LONG time. One thing that they all have in common is that God did not say anything about a rapture. He did say in Matthew 24:22 and Mark 13:20 that for the sake of the elect those days have been shortened.


The long and short of it is that there is no place in the bible that says Jesus is making a secret return to rapture the “saints” away before the 7th Trump sounds.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

interesting thread.
are you familiar with the 3 harvest theory like ancient israel used to do?

1st harvest = wheat and barley = festival unleaven bread
2nd harvest = fruits = festival of pentecost
3rd harvest = wine = feast of tabernacles

but the wheat harvest is the key to this theory. it has 3 stages to it.
1. sheaves
2. threshing grain (tribulum)
3. chaff

since wheat is referred to as Believers of God, and there's 3 harvesting's to gather all of the wheat, some believe there are 3 gatherings.
1. pre-trib
2. mid-trib
3. when Christ returns

I am not claiming to buy this theory but i find it interesting. those who do follow it use Matthew 24 and Mark/Luke that discusses the olivet discourse.

 

[p_rehbein]

........um...............hmm...........

Guess the Apostle Paul was smoking some serious stuff when he wrote his Epistles, huh............hmm...........

1 Corinthians, Chapter 15....

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[p_rehbein]

(continued)

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

....pretty sure this says the Apostle Paul FIRST taught of the "rapture."

...but, y'all go on n have your wee discussion...

 

[Evmur]

(continued)

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

....pretty sure this says the Apostle Paul FIRST taught of the "rapture."

...but, y'all go on n have your wee discussion...

... but Paul did not preach a pre tribulation rapture ... there will be a rapture but Jesus said it will be "after the tribulation of those days ..."

 

[Thewatchman]

(continued)


...but, y'all go on n have your wee discussion...

........um...............hmm...........

Guess the Apostle Paul was smoking some serious stuff when he wrote his Epistles, huh............hmm...........

What is that about?










Verses copied from Biblehub.com

Unity in the Church Chapter 1

(Psalm 133:1-3; Ephesians 4:1-16)

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

There should only be one Gospel there should not be contentions among you. That is not the case today if we were all of one mind and one spirit there would not be 4 churches on every street corner saying come to my church we have the true Jesus; No that church on the other side of the street does not have the true Jesus we do, and so it goes on and on. Look at verse 14 Paul said I am glad I did not baptize any of you. He did not want any part of what was going on. Did He care about the people? YES HE DID ! I do not want to turn this into a verse by verse study. It would be a good one.



Chapter 3

1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?



Paul is saying there is a problem here in the church it was then and it still is today. People are not taught the meat of the word. Staying with Paul's teaching verse 2. I fed you with milk before and not meat and you still are not ready for the meat of the word verse 3. You are still carnal flesh minded with envy, strife, division you walk as men (of the flesh). We could keep going but lets go to chapter 15 which you posted.



Chapter 15.

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Do you believe the Gospel Paul preached?



The Resurrection Body 35But some man,will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Good question do you know the answer. Is it flesh, is it spirit, is it mortal or is it immortal?

36.Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Strong's:fool !
ἄφρων (aphrōn)
Adjective - Vocative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 878: Senseless, foolish, inconsiderate. Properly, mindless, i.e. Stupid, ignorant, egotistic, rash, or unbelieving.
That which thou sowest: You have to have some knowledge of gardening or farming. You sow a seed in the ground. That seed is like the mothers embryo sack it holds the new creation. When planted the seed protects the plant and feeds the plant until it starts to grow. The outer shall dies off and a new plant, corn, wheat, barley, ect.

Paul is saying that if you do not understand this you are in trouble' but he will go on and explain it.

Verse 38. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Verse 39.All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

All bodies no matter what they are. No two snow flakes are alike. It is amazing how God does things. Unless you are an identical twin no to DNA's are alike, finger prints, we could go on and on.

 

[Nehemiah6]

AND knowing it was started by a woman....

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church was first revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ just before His crucifixion. So kindly get your facts straight.

 

[Thewatchman]

interesting thread.
are you familiar with the 3 harvest theory like ancient israel used to do?

1st harvest = wheat and barley = festival unleaven bread
2nd harvest = fruits = festival of pentecost
3rd harvest = wine = feast of tabernacles

but the wheat harvest is the key to this theory. it has 3 stages to it.
1. sheaves
2. threshing grain (tribulum)
3. chaff

since wheat is referred to as Believers of God, and there's 3 harvesting's to gather all of the wheat, some believe there are 3 gatherings.
1. pre-trib
2. mid-trib
3. when Christ returns

I am not claiming to buy this theory but i find it interesting. those who do follow it use Matthew 24 and Mark/Luke that discusses the olivet discourse.

There is no truth to that.

 

[Thewatchman]

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church was first revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ just before His crucifixion. So kindly get your facts straight.

Prove that statement from the bible for me please.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

There is no truth to that.

a preacher friend of mine told me about a friend of his who visited israel and witnessed the 3 steps to gathering wheat at harvest and wondered if it was a possibility how the rapture would be. said everything we see in ancient israel has meaning to it and wondered if this was a possibility. like i mentioned already i did not buy into it but i am searching Scripture to see if there's any merit to it. and since you made this thread i asked what your views toward it was.

 

[kleronomos]

interesting thread.
are you familiar with the 3 harvest theory like ancient israel used to do?

1st harvest = wheat and barley = festival unleaven bread
2nd harvest = fruits = festival of pentecost
3rd harvest = wine = feast of tabernacles

but the wheat harvest is the key to this theory. it has 3 stages to it.
1. sheaves
2. threshing grain (tribulum)
3. chaff

since wheat is referred to as Believers of God, and there's 3 harvesting's to gather all of the wheat, some believe there are 3 gatherings.
1. pre-trib
2. mid-trib
3. when Christ returns

I am not claiming to buy this theory but i find it interesting. those who do follow it use Matthew 24 and Mark/Luke that discusses the olivet discourse.

And all of that is ABOUT HARVESTING FOOD, nothing about the end times though we do hear from the MOUTH OF JESUS about the final HARVEST and I would think that ANYONE who read just this one verse, would look at a pre trib rapture and run from it as fast as they could.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

BUT then again, if I were the one trying do deceive I WOULD be putting in as many road blocks as possible and making people question things they would never question by bringing in things that have NOTHING to do with the subject but could be made to look like it. Like the JEWISH wedding traditions for the NOT A JEWISH pre trib rapture but the GENTILE one. SEE how take this and apply it to that even though THERE IS NO RELATION from one to the other. If any of this were of another subject, these arguments would have come and gone long ago....


Or if they read THE FIRST THING JESUS SAYS when asked about the end of the world

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

And then read the 1ST thing the SEALED book reveals when being unsealed by the Lamb slain when He gets to heaven

Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Add to that Jesus saying things like

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

The Lord and Saviour gave messages to the churches TO GIVE TO those seeking and WHAT do all the messages contain? Not a 'GENTILE CHURCH' pre trib rapture, but 7 messages stating that INDIVIDUALS must OVERCOME and endure to the end.

TO THE CHURCHES....the Spirit tells the churches IT IS GOING TO BE ABOUT THE INDIVIDUALS, and the INDIVIDUALS must overcome and ENDURE TO THE END

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.



It is up to THE INDIVIDUAL to HEAR the messages given to the churches

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

That is a MAN that receives the stone, A MAN who is given a new name. NOT A GROUP of believers, NOT a group 'taken' before they can overcome the one set out to overcome them.


There is one who is coming to steal, kill and destroy and what he is looking to steal is your soul. Not a war of flesh and blood....

Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.


READ the messages to the churches and SEE WHAT THEY ARE supposed to be teaching and SEE if in fact they are teaching that or IF THEY ARE TEACHING AGAINST IT.




Those who do TEACH a pre trib rapture, are always saying that 'THE GENTILE CHURCH' is in heaven (won't say how or when they got there) BY CLAIMING this is the GENTILE CHURCH

Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.


WHAT you never hear them say or point out is according to the way it is written

THE CHURCH WOULD be in heaven BEFORE THE LAMB WAS SLAIN

because the ONE WORTHY to open the book isn't even FOUND until AFTER
Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

 

[kleronomos]

(continued)



....pretty sure this says the Apostle Paul FIRST taught of the "rapture."

...but, y'all go on n have your wee discussion...

How do you see any of that to be PRE TRIB RAPTURE?

 

[kleronomos]

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church was first revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ just before His crucifixion. So kindly get your facts straight.

Seriously, JESUS never said a single word about returning or coming or LEAVING THE right hand side of GOD to do some side work before the 2nd Advent.

Do you think He will be ABLE to just 'shut off' HIS BRIGHTNESS for the 'secret' trip? What part of that BRIGHTNESS do you not get?

 

[kleronomos]

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church was first revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ just before His crucifixion. So kindly get your facts straight.

I'll go head to head with you any day. I'll even let you start with THE FIRST VERSE THAT STATES THERE IS A PRE TRIB RAPTURE. THEN we'll see WHAT IS WRITTEN and WHAT IS MADE UP, through their own doctrine through private interpretation saying 'HATH GOD SAID', when GOD DIDN'T SAY.

Conclusions and assumptions is all it is. NOT ONE VERSE about Jesus coming for the church except at the 2nd Advent and that is those who are alive and REMAINING. NOT ONE VERSE about Jesus coming PRE TRIB for anything. NOT ONE VERSE about Jesus 'gathering' before He returns. NOT ONE VERSE about the church ARRIVING in heaven. NOT ONE VERSE about where the church goes once it gets there. NOT ONE VERSE about WHY God would do such a thing that goes AGAINST WHO HE IS, WHAT HE WANTS, HOW HE WORKS, HOW WE ARE TAUGHT, the list goes on and on and on.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Seriously, JESUS never said a single word about returning or coming or LEAVING THE right hand side of GOD to do some side work before the 2nd Advent.

Do you think He will be ABLE to just 'shut off' HIS BRIGHTNESS for the 'secret' trip? What part of that BRIGHTNESS do you not get?

Matthew 24:
40 Then two men will be in the field, one taken and one left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill, one taken and one left

do you think during the Tribulation, the time when you need the Mark of the Beast, Believers will be in the field with unbelievers at the Second Coming?

i don't see how Christians will be out in the open with the Beast trying to kill them or working at a job, or shopping without the MOB.
clearly these people are removed before the Beast takes power.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Matthew 24 are the "Words" right out of the mouth of Jesus.
working in the field or the mill is the same at a warehouse, farming, machine shop, manufacturing, retail, food, medical, etc.

Jesus said in the Verses 40 and 41 Believer and non believer will be working together and one of them is taken away.

we know the circumstances about the Tribulation. to work, get medical, bank, shop you need Mark of the Beast. if you take the Mark of the Beast you spend eternity burning forever. so Verses 40 and 41 have to happen BEFORE the Mark of the Beast.

the mathematics are easy here. people will be removed before Tribulation begins and there will be more removed at the Second Coming (the beheaded in between).

Verses 40 and 41 are straight forward and Common Sense. if you use Common Sense, you know this happens before Tribulation begins.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Prove that statement from the bible for me please.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14:3).

Does that verse say "I will come again AFTER THE TRIBULATION and receive you unto myself"? The apostolic churches expected the Rapture at any time. They regarded it as IMMINENT based upon several statements of Christ even prior to this revelation. Now if that is not solid evidence for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then you do not know how to discern Bible truth.

 

[Evmur]

Matthew 24:
40 Then two men will be in the field, one taken and one left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill, one taken and one left

do you think during the Tribulation, the time when you need the Mark of the Beast, Believers will be in the field with unbelievers at the Second Coming?

i don't see how Christians will be out in the open with the Beast trying to kill them or working at a job, or shopping without the MOB.
clearly these people are removed before the Beast takes power.

When Jesus comes in the clouds of glory to gather His people He will also destroy Antichrist as he sits in the temple declaring that he is God. 2. Thess. 2.

But that is the END of Ac's career not the beginning.

Paul said when Ac comes he opposeth everything called god or that is worshipped as God. That means YOU, he will oppose YOU.

Everybody agrees [I hope we all agree] we are saved from God's wrath. But Tribulation is not God's wrath.

Whenever tribulation [trouble] is mentioned in the bible it relates to the world, "in the world you will have tribulation ..." "through great tribulation must we enter the kingdom of God" Tribulation is persecution, the Great Tribulation is the great end - times persecution which we are warned will come.

"After the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great glory and power and He shall send forth His angels to gather His elect." Matt. 24. 2 Thess. 2.