Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it !

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it and the Resurrection of Christ from the dead after having died for our sins proves it ! One of the biggect lies in antichrist false religion, it is the distortion of the Blessed Gospel Doctrine of Justification by Faith, not because its not true, but because the distorters of this Truth deceitfully neglect that there is a Justification of the sinners Christ died for before they are Justified by Faith, and has nothing to do with their faith or believing it; which Justification also imutes to them Righteousness,as it is stated here Rom 4:6

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Imputeth Righteousness without works ! That word works is the greek word ergon and means:


I.business, employment, that which any one is occupied

A.that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking



II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So this Righteousness was imputed to them without any act, deed, thing done by them, not even with their mind !

In fact this Righteousness is charged to the account of every sinner Christ died for Rom 5:8 before they are born into this world a sinner as well as before they repent and believe the Gospel; This is to say that this Righteousness / Justification had been applied to their account and persons even while they are in reality and actively being sinners, ungodly, and enemies ; and the reason why we know this to be True is because when Christ was raised from the dead, after having been delivered to death for their their sins laid to His charge, upon rising from the dead , it was because God reckoned THEM Justified before Him, Which scripture testifies to here Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The AMP reads :

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].

The NASB reads:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.


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that's according to the Law of creation, so you are obligated to do all the Law .

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God ...

Romans 4:

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect

Matt 23:23 shows us that natural man is required to have faith according to the Law. So if you appeal to natural mans faith, you are obligated to do the whole law, you forfeit grace my friend.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God ...

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The purpose of the law is to lead mankind to Messiah. The keeping of the law was never intended as a means of salvation ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith. That is clearly written in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus pointed out that the scribes and pharisees were trying to keep the law in an attempt to gain salvation and, in so doing, they missed the whole point of the law because the law pointed to their need for Him.

you insisting that faith = works does not change the Scriptural truth that faith ≠ works.
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human faith

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures ...

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

Jesus said it[human faith] was a weighty matter of the Law that you cant left undone

your "human faith" is just another vain imaginative reasoning on your part used to prop up your erroneous dogma.

As I told you ...

You want to make faith "required under the Law"? Have at it. At that point, you change Rom 4:4 and you do not receive the reward through grace ... you receive of debt. Have fun with that!
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faith is faith. There is only one faith.

The Faith God gave me points to Christ as my righteousness, thats the difference between you and I.

aaaahahahahahahaha ... you so silly!!!

There is only one faith:

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism


I'm sure in your mind your "faith" is soooo much better than the "faith" of all the rest of mankind cuz you so special.

nope ... your continual manipulation of Scripture in order to substantiate your erroneous belief that "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law" is nothing but balderdash.

its your manipulation of scripture

The one who manipulates Scripture is the one who claims "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law" when Scripture tells us

Romans 4:

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

...

16 Therefore it is of faith [the promise to Abraham in vs 13], that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all

You continue to insist faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law" and according to Rom 4:14 you have now made faith void and the promise of none effect. Way to go, brightfame52.

you want to say it means Abrahams Faith

Interesting you did not include Rom 4:16 which I included in the post to which you replied.

Romans 4:

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

...

16 Therefore it is of faith [the promise to Abraham in vs 13], that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all


It is clear the Author of Scripture is the One Who says the faith of Abraham.

Faith is required under the Law

You can believe that all the livelong day ... your faith in the law will get you nowhere:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Love God and your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 22:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You saying Jesus said "human faith is of the law" is wholly due to your manipulation of Scripture. Quit reading Scripture through the lens of your erroneous dogma.

Im witnessing to what Jesus said out of His own Mouth Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And Jesus uses the definite article, THE LAW, so He is definitely speaking of the Moral Law of God.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The sole purpose of the law is to bring mankind to Messiah because justification is, always has been, and always will be, through faith ....

The Law brings the regenerate/spiritual man to Faith in Christ

Again you've got the cart before the horse.

The "regenerate/spiritual man" is the one who is already born again.

In effect, what you're saying is "the law brings the born again one to Faith in Christ so he/she can be born again".

The natural man that Christ didnt die for

figment of your imagination. The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.



John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

in fact the Gospel is hidden from the natural man.

... says the high priest of the god of this world.
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John is saying in Jn 1:12-13 the reason for some receiving/believing on the Name of Jesus was that they had been born of God. He taught the same thing again in 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

intentionally obtuse.

1 John 5:1 does not support your claim that "a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ" any more than John 1:12-13 supports your claim.

Again, here is the sequence in which a person is born again ...

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

After you heard, you believed.

After you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (born again)
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you believe you are justified by God because of your human faith. Thats works

Your continual insistence that there are multiple types of faith when Scripture clearly tells us there is one faith indicates you do not believe Scripture.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

you dont base Justification on what the bible clearly states

Scripture clearly states we are justified by faith:

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Your continual insistence that faith is works when Scripture clearly tells us faith is not works indicates you do not believe Scripture.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

You can claim there are multiple types of faith and you can claim that "human faith" ... "thats works" all the livelong day. Your claim is not based on the truth of Scripture. Scripture is truth and we are to bring our thoughts into alignment with Scripture. We are not to attempt to bring Scripture into alignment with our thoughts.


2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
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Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

It had nothing to do with a person believing.

Of course you want to rip vs 7 from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed it so you can make your fallacious claims ...

Read Ephesians 1:1 to see to whom the letter was written:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus


The faithful in Christ Jesus have already believed.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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In Rom 4:3 what is the IT that Abraham believed

Abraham didn't believe an "IT".

Abraham believed a WHO and here's a hint:

Abraham believed God


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Rom 8:33-34 and Isa 53:6 applies to believers, and it applies to them as unbelievers, as well as any unbeliever for whom Christ died.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Acts 7 51 says nothing about God knocking on the dead sinners heart. It actually is proof that the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, it shows how the unregenerate natural heart and ears respond to the Gospel . They resist the Truth.

brightfame52, you really need to follow the discussion.

In Post #1830, The_Watchers_2017 stated:

"this has nothing to do when God knocks on the heart of natural man and he repents."​

You replied in Post #1832 and claimed:

"The old human heart is uncircumcised and is at enmity to the word of God Acts 7:51"​

I replied to your assertion in Post #1857:

if, as you claim, "God doesn’t knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart", then there would be no reason to "resist the Holy Ghost" as stated in Acts 7:51 because (according to you) the Holy Spirit "doesn't knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful, natural human heart".​

Let's read Acts 7:51:

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Clearly, God does "knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful, natural human heart". Otherwise, there would be no Holy Ghost for them to resist.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Christ didnt love, nor did He die for them, thats why they remain unchanged.

Your erroneous dogma has blinded you to the all encompassing love of the Lord Jesus Christ, which surpasses understanding.

The reason people "remain unchanged" is that they resist the Holy Spirit:

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
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2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He became the sinner

The Lord Jesus Christ did not become "the sinner".

2 Cor 5:21 tells us He hath made him to be sin ... the word "sin" is translated from the Greek word hamartia.

If the Author of Scripture wanted to say the Lord Jesus Christ became "the sinner" as you erroneously claim, God would have used the word "hamartōlos" instead of hamartia.

Your erroneous dogma is again (and still) found wanting.
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now you're making satan more powerful than the gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation – Rom 1:16).

satan works for God.

now you've got God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, doing the bidding of satan.

First, you claim the gospel which is revealed from Genesis to Revelation is really the hidden wisdom (1 Cor 2:7) and/or the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9).

When it was pointed out to you that the gospel is the gospel and the mystery is the mystery, you then pointed to 2 Cor 4:3 because your wholly inadequate Biblical research skills lack any accuracy.

You have now compounded your error because 2 Cor 4:4 states that it is the god of this world (i.e. satan) who blinds.

God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, has proclaimed the gospel in every Book in Scripture.

satan, the god of this world and the one who holds himself out as equal to God, is the one who hides the gospel.

So you've got God "hiding" the gospel, which is the very thing satan wants done! way to go, brightfame52!!!

And just fyi, 2 Cor 4:4 tells us why satan hides the gospel:lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Your dogma is wholly without merit.
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elect sinners

another concept made up in your feeble attempt to bring Scripture into alignment with your erroneous dogma ... right up there with "human faith" and the Lord Jesus Christ became "the sinner".
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No, those He died for do not have to believe it, accept it or do anything but continue being ungodly sinners

You're saying that those who reject God are "absolutely acquitted/absolved : to free from guilt or claim or their consequences". Your erroneous dogma has you believing the lies of the devil.

Yes, if Christ died for them. Christ died for their sinful rejection of God, it was nailed to His Cross, hence Christ died for and Justified the ungodly !

It is written

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: if if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

if they believe not its because they are not of the Sheep Christ died for,

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html​

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The gospel is not hid.

The scripture says 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Now who should I believe ?

your whole premise is so ludicrous.

First you claim that the gospel is the hidden wisdom of God and, therefore, God "hides" the gospel from some and only "reveals" the gospel to the "elect".

Because you conflate the gospel with the mystery of God (i.e. the hidden wisdom – 1 Cor 2:7), you claim that "satan works for God" when satan blinds the minds of those who do not believe.

However, in all actuality you've got God working for satan when you claim God "hides" the gospel.

Your whole dilemma stems from the fact that you refuse to believe what is written in Scripture.

The gospel is the gospel and the gospel is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

The mystery is the mystery which was hid in God from the foundation of the world until God revealed it to Paul.

In fact, 1 Cor 2:8 tells us that if satan had known the mystery, he would not have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 2:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


I will again spell these truths out to you and, hopefully, you can begin to understand so you quit arguing about things of which it is obvious you know nothing.

The gospel is revealed in all of Scripture. The gospel is not hidden. Even satan knows the gospel and, according to 2 Cor 4:4, it is satan who blinds the minds of those who do not believe the gospel ... which means it is not God Who hides the gospel.

The mystery was hidden in God until God revealed the mystery to Paul. satan did not know the mystery and had satan known the mystery he would not have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Romans 1:17 does not say the gospel of Christ must be revealed

It says it is revealed to Faith !

Rom 1:17

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Gospel of Christ and the Righteousness it reveals, is not something men can know naturally.

Again, Romans 1:17 says the righteousness of God is revealed.

You refuse to read what is written in Scripture.

When you continue to insist that the gospel of Christ "is not something men can know", you're teaching satan's lies.
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Yeah He did, after He opened up their understanding Lk 24:44-46

There you go again ... conflating Scripture because you have to support your erroneous dogma.

Luke 24:44-46 was not the same incident as Luke 24:27.
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Job was one of Gods Elect and was given Faith in Christ, Like Moses or David or any other Believer in the OT

You're again missing the point because you have to support your erroneous dogma.

If, as you claim, the gospel is the same as the mystery which was kept secret in God from the foundation of the world until God revealed it to Paul as stated in Ephesians 3:9, then Job could not have known the gospel.

Just get over the fact that the gospel and the mystery are not the same thing.
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As far as the gospel, God did not hide, does not hide, will not hide the gospel. If God were to hide it, it would stay hidden ... just as the hidden wisdom of God stayed hid until God revealed it to His holy apostles and prophets

Yes God does hide the Gospel from men Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

sigh read the record in Luke 10 in order to understand what "things" were referred to in Matt 11:25.

Quit assuming that when Scripture indicates something was "hid", or "revealed", Scripture is automatically referring to the gospel.

Read the next verse, brightfame52:

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

all men naturally are under the control/power of satan

Like I said, now you're making satan more powerful than the gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation – Rom 1:16).

Christ in Paul is not the gospel. Christ in the believer is the riches of the glory of the mystery:

Colossians 1:

26 Even the mystery [not "gospel"] which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

Your confused.

The one who is confused is the one who insists that there is no difference between the gospel, the mystery, and the riches of the glory of the mystery.

And we all understand why you cannot differentiate between the gospel and the mystery. Your erroneous dogma has to believe the gospel is the mystery and that God has to "reveal" the gospel to the "elect". What a crock!!!

Just read Scripture as written.


Here is the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures


Here is the mystery:

Ephesians 3:

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel


Here is the riches of the glory of the mystery:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory


Now, you want to say the gospel is the mystery and the mystery is the gospel and God "hides" the gospel? Have at it.

I will read the truth of Scripture and believe what is written just as the Author of Scripture intended.

The gospel is the gospel and is not the mystery, nor is the gospel the riches of the glory of the mystery.

The mystery is the mystery and is not the gospel and in addition to the mystery the born again one has Christ within him/her (which is the riches of the glory of the mystery).

The riches of the glory of the mystery is Christ in the born again one, the hope of glory.


To acknowledge the difference between the gospel and the mystery is to rightly divide the word of truth as instructed in 2 Timothy 2:15:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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