Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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brightfame52

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renewed

Nope.


You have clearly stated "Faith is required under the Law":
Yes human faith is required, it ought to be done, I didnt say it, Jesus did Matt 23:23 isnt me talking but Jesus speaking :

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So you put yourself under the law friend !
 

brightfame52

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The "it" referred to in Romans 4:16 is the promise to Abraham which is through the righteousness of faith (Rom 4:13):
There you go again, making human faith to be righteousness. So you advocate Justification by doing what is required by law. I told you what the It was and is, you ignored it.
 

brightfame52

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For you to conclude that faith = law, you are stating righteousness comes through the law and if righteousness comes through the law, then faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect (Rom 4:14).
I didnt conclude that, Jesus said human faith is of the Law you ought to have done Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So since you say all men by nature have been given faith in adam, then they are required to do it. Thats law. Man naturally is in Adam and therefore required to obey God perfectly.
 

brightfame52

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Those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" are given power to become the sons of God.
Receiving is activity, activity requires life, so spiritual life was present in order for the person to receive . Prior to life a person is dead to God. So John is saying that those who received/believed on Christ had been born of God. Man naturally is spiritually dead to God and no spiritual action can emanate from him. And again Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
 

brightfame52

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"giving men a reason to boast" would be the one who holds to the erroneous dogma that he/she "elect".

Proclaiming the truth that all mankind has faith does not give anyone "a reason to boast".

"Oh look, I have a belly button. I'm going to boast because I have a belly button ... oh wait, so do you."

:rolleyes: your ludicrous claims border on the ridiculous.
Yes you are giving men a reason to boast on their human faith.
 

brightfame52

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Read the verse again, brightfame52:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

The verse clearly states believing is not works.

Yet you claim that I am saying I "base justification on ... works".

Furthermore, the verse clearly states righteousness is imputed to those who believe on Him that justifieth.

Since it is God Who justifies, and I believe in Him, clearly I am not believing in "my works".

Since I base justification on that which God clearly states is not works, and I believe in God Who justifies, then it is you who needs to seek out from God what God means when He tells us faith is not works and what God means when He tells us to believe on Him Who justifies and He will impute righteousness to those who believe.
Yes you base Justification before God on your works, your human faith, yet scripture doesnt teach that.
 

brightfame52

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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,
which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Thats the saved Justified world of the Elect.
 

brightfame52

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nope. According to Scripture, righteousness is imputed when a person believes:

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Scripture does not state "before Abraham believe God it was counted unto him for righteousness".
Sins are forgiven before a person believes based upon the shed blood of Christ. So you are teaching forgiveness of sins based upon what a person does, thats works, and denial of forgiveness based on Christs blood alone.
 

ForestGreenCook

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we were born as natural man and now after repenting we are spiritual men. you can't have it any other way. you were not born any different than anyone else.
According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man, before he has been born again, will not, and indeed, can not repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.
 
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According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man, before he has been born again, will not, and indeed, can not repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.
this has nothing to do when God knocks on the heart of natural man and he repents.
 

brightfame52

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Acquitted by the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all !2

Those of Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Listen, none of the Us all here, the same Us all in Rom 8:32-33

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Nothing can be Laid to their charge, which are God's Elect.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

That word charged is the greek word egkaleō and means to accuse, to call into account.

Now to accuse or charge someone with something is to be able to legally and legitimately find fault, wrongdoing , transgression.

For instance, if in light of Christ having the Elect's iniquity laid upon Him, if they after that could still be charged with unbelief, then as unbelievers Rom 8:33 cannot apply to them, and if that is so, Isa 53:6 cannot apply neither, because unbelief is a iniquity, a wrongdoing, a wicked evil doing, this we know by Heb 3:12

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Unbelief is morally and ethically wrong ! Its iniquity a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.

Now if Unbelief is Evil, its iniquitous, and if it was not layed on Christ as Per Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Then all of those of Isa 53:6, the Us all, did not have all their iniquties layed upon Him, which makes a False Gospel to proclaim, and it makes the evil of unbelief a charge that can be laid upon them in Isa 53:6 and also Rom 8:32-33, which would destroy their credibility !
 

brightfame52

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this has nothing to do when God knocks on the heart of natural man and he repents.
God doesnt knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart, because that heart is dead to God and hardened to Him. God must give a new heart first Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The old human heart is uncircumcised and is at enmity to the word of God Acts 7:51

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

So God gives a new heart that submits to Him.

Unless you believe this, you have much confidence in the flesh !
 
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God doesnt knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart, because that heart is dead to God and hardened to Him. God must give a new heart first Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The old human heart is uncircumcised and is at enmity to the word of God Acts 7:51

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

So God gives a new heart that submits to Him.

Unless you believe this, you have much confidence in the flesh !
Titus 3:
3 For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deluded, enslaved to various desires and pleasures, spending our lives in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared—
5 not by deeds of righteousness which we had done ourselves, but because of His mercy— He saved us through the mikveh of rebirth and renewing of the Ruach ha-Kodesh,

shows us that God changes the heart by rebirth/renewal. regeneration at the time of Salvation. so it does not matter how bad natural man is. when God comes to him, natural man will be fixed during the process of being lost to becoming saved in Christ Jesus.
 

brightfame52

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Titus 3:
3 For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deluded, enslaved to various desires and pleasures, spending our lives in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared—
5 not by deeds of righteousness which we had done ourselves, but because of His mercy— He saved us through the mikveh of rebirth and renewing of the Ruach ha-Kodesh,

shows us that God changes the heart by rebirth/renewal. regeneration at the time of Salvation. so it does not matter how bad natural man is. when God comes to him, natural man will be fixed during the process of being lost to becoming saved in Christ Jesus.
Like I said, God doesnt knock on the Spiritually dead wicked heart, and you havent showed one verse to prove it.
 

brightfame52

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the watchers
Titus 3
shows us that God changes the heart by rebirth/renewal. regeneration at the time of Salvation. so it does not matter how bad natural man is. when God comes to him, natural man will be fixed during the process of being lost to becoming saved in Christ Jesus.
False teaching friend. 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know/understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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Like I said, God doesnt knock on the Spiritually dead wicked heart, and you havent showed one verse to prove it.
READ THIS CAREFULLY because you tend to twist meaning.

Ephesians 2:
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins.
2 At that time, you walked in the way of this world, in conformity to the ruler of the domain of the air—the ruler of the spirit who is now operating in the sons of disobedience.
3 We too all lived among them in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind. By nature we were children of wrath, just like the others.
4 But God was rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us.
5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

NOTICE VERSE 5
5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

Verses 1-3 explain how we are the Dead Natural Man

Verse 5 says WE WERE DEAD...THEN GOD MADE US ALIVE.

so God does indeed knock on the hearts of the spiritually dead and then He makes them ALIVE!

that proves this portion of your post WRONG [and you havent showed one verse to prove it]...no I HAVE SHOWN 5 VERSES TO PROVE IT!
 

brightfame52

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p have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Then all of those of Isa 53:6, the Us all, did not have all their iniquties layed upon Him, which makes a False Gospel to proclaim, and it makes the evil of unbelief a charge that can be laid upon them in Isa 53:6 and also Rom 8:32-33, which would destroy their credibility !

Also, If Unbelief was not laid to the charge of Christ when the the Lord Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That word iniquity avon :

I.perversity, depravity, iniquity, guilt or punishment of iniquity
A.
iniquity

B.
guilt of iniquity, guilt (as great), guilt (of condition)

C.
consequence of or punishment for iniquity

That word peversity means:


willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.

2.
characterized by or proceeding from such a determination or disposition:
"a perverse mood."

3.
wayward or cantankerous.

4.
persistent or obstinate in what is wrong.

5.
turned away from or rejecting what is right, good, or proper; wicked or corrupt.

Thats actually what happened in Adam, man went into perversity,he turned away as in Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Which constitutes Unbelief. Now if Unbelief was not laid upon Christ as an Iniquity, that means the very first sin of Adam Christ did not die for, again the very first sin was an Act of Apostacy.

Peter quotes this verse here 1 Pet 2:25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Gone astray planaō :

I.
to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the right way
A.
to go astray, wander, roam about


II.
metaph.
A.
to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive

B.
to be led into error

C.
to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin

D.
to sever or fall away from the truth
i.
of heretics


E.
to be led away into error and sin
Click to expand...​
And the Unbelief of Heb 3:12

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


This is basically the sin that Eve committed, being led astray by the devil into unbelief See 2 Cor 11:3 !

Now if Laying our iniquties on Christ did not include the initial sin of unbelief, then Christ did not die for it, and it can be Justly charged to God's Elect that He did die for, and it made Adams sin unpardonable by the death of Christ, which contradicts the teachings of Paul here Rom 5:15-17

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ )

Finally, If Christ's Death did not deal with unbelief, then that means that the one sin He did not die for, man must overcome it by his freewill and secure his own Salvation, something he did and not what Christ did, since as its falsely taught, Christ did not die for it !

12
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Acquitted by the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all !3

Now if Unbelief is Evil, its iniquitous, and if it was not layed on Christ as Per Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Then all of those of Isa 53:6, the Us all, did not have all their iniquties layed upon Him, which makes a False Gospel to proclaim, and it makes the evil of unbelief a charge that can be laid upon them in Isa 53:6 and also Rom 8:32-33, which would destroy their credibility !

Also, If Unbelief was not laid to the charge of Christ when the the Lord Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That word iniquity avon :

I.perversity, depravity, iniquity, guilt or punishment of iniquity
A.
iniquity

B.
guilt of iniquity, guilt (as great), guilt (of condition)

C.
consequence of or punishment for iniquity

That word peversity means:


willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.

2.
characterized by or proceeding from such a determination or disposition:
"a perverse mood."

3.
wayward or cantankerous.

4.
persistent or obstinate in what is wrong.

5.
turned away from or rejecting what is right, good, or proper; wicked or corrupt.

Thats actually what happened in Adam, man went into perversity,he turned away as in Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Which constitutes Unbelief. Now if Unbelief was not laid upon Christ as an Iniquity, that means the very first sin of Adam Christ did not die for, again the very first sin was an Act of Apostacy.

Peter quotes this verse here 1 Pet 2:25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Gone astray planaō :

I.
to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the right way
A.
to go astray, wander, roam about


II.
metaph.
A.
to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive

B.
to be led into error

C.
to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin

D.
to sever or fall away from the truth
i.
of heretics


E.
to be led away into error and sin
Click to expand...​
And the Unbelief of Heb 3:12

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


This is basically the sin that Eve committed, being led astray by the devil into unbelief See 2 Cor 11:3 !

Now if Laying our iniquities on Christ did not include the initial sin of unbelief, then Christ did not die for it, and it can be Justly charged to God's Elect that He did die for, and it made Adams sin unpardonable by the death of Christ, which contradicts the teachings of Paul here Rom 5:15-17

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ )

Finally, If Christ's Death did not deal with unbelief, then that means that the one sin He did not die for, man must overcome it by his freewill and secure his own Salvation, something he did and not what Christ did, since as its falsely taught, Christ did not die for it !12
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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READ THIS CAREFULLY because you tend to twist meaning.

Ephesians 2:
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins.
2 At that time, you walked in the way of this world, in conformity to the ruler of the domain of the air—the ruler of the spirit who is now operating in the sons of disobedience.
3 We too all lived among them in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind. By nature we were children of wrath, just like the others.
4 But God was rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us.
5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

NOTICE VERSE 5
5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

Verses 1-3 explain how we are the Dead Natural Man

Verse 5 says WE WERE DEAD...THEN GOD MADE US ALIVE.

so God does indeed knock on the hearts of the spiritually dead and then He makes them ALIVE!

that proves this portion of your post WRONG [and you havent showed one verse to prove it]...no I HAVE SHOWN 5 VERSES TO PROVE IT!
Nothing here about God knocking on the heart of the dead in sin, nothing at all. Thats your unwise zealous imposition !
 
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Nothing here about God knocking on the heart of the dead in sin, nothing at all. Thats your unwise zealous imposition !
you are in denial!
what else is being DEAD to the world and God making us alive but the knocking on our hearts and awakening us?

5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

even when you're wrong you refuse to admit to it. PRIDE goeth before the FALL!