Dispensationalism...

[Everlasting-Grace]

No more chosen nation for Christ is all and in all (Col. 3:11)
No one has said that the church has replaced Israel. Stop making things up. You sound desperate.
Read Romans 9-11... S-L-O-W-LY

The following scriptures are from Romans 11, something that you failed to read because you don't know how to read God's word in the given context:

Romans 11:7–10 (CSB) "What then? Israel did not find what it was looking for, but the elect did find it. The rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear, to this day., 9 And David says, Let their table become a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a retribution to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and their backs be bent continually."

The "elect" were those who chose to open their hearts to Christ, the rest were hardened because they hated Christ the Lord.

Do you get it now?

1. Your attitude sux my friend. Humble yourself..
2. Do I get it now? Get what? That you have taken the promises which were given to ISREAL ONLY< and now tried to say it goes to the church (replacement theology)
3. You can say you have not replaced anything all you want. YOU HAVE

as for romans 11:

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own ]opinion,

This is written to you, in fact all of us gentiles!!!. He is telling US to stop considering yourself wise because you have been grafted in. and you think you are there now!!

that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Israel will remain BLIND UNTIL the fullness of the gentile has come!

then what???

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

ALL ISREAL (blind or not blind, the natural branches as compaired to the unnatural branches (saved gentiles)

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

JACOB. NOT GENTILES!!!

27 For this is My covenant with them,

Notice here, He says his covenant is with THEM (NOT YOU - Saved Gentiles)!!!

When I take away their sins.”

Ezek 37:
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.


28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake,

They are enemies of the gospel, because they still to this day as a nation reject it.

but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

This is a special election. Given to them as a NATION. through the fathers. the election STILL STANDS!!

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

When God says I will, or I give. He means it. He does not renig on his promises. they are irrevocable.. They are punished for their sins. But that does not mean they lost their gift..


In your own words. DO YOU GET IT NOW!!!!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So you then agree that Christians can be heirs of the land promise? And that an everlasting covenant has continuity through Christians? And that if we follow Lev 26's requirement for repentence that only Christians can be heirs to that promise?

No. I do not agree with that.

Because most of the people who recieved that land promise were never saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Are you suggesting that salvation is not conditional? Are you suggesting OSAS?

Thank you. You just made another point for me.

You do not believe in eternal security.. So you. like the jews. Believe you must earn your salvation.

You do not believe in Gods eternal promises.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Is Christ needed for repentence?

lol. My friend. If your going to keepo asking these same questions I have answered multiple times. I can not help you

There is no repentance without christ.

Now please. listen to what I say. set your preconcieved notions about me aside. and listen.

 

[Ethan1942]

Your making a common mistake all amil/preterists do. Your making this a salvation issue,

its not about who is saved, or who is not saved.

it’s about God doing what he Said he would do

when you make this a salvation issue, you misrepresent prophecy and the people your trying to argue against,

I notice you evaded the challenge and proceeded to duck the issue. You class me with "amil/preterists", which I am NOT, and claim I am making this about a salvation issue. You are making a false statement about what I wrote. I did not mention "salvation", but I referred to Jude 1:3, "the faith" once for all delivered to the saints. You have exhibited so clearly what it took me 30 years to see, having been so long blinded by dispensationalist "truisms". You side-stepped the challenge by making unfounded and silly claims trying to disprove what I meant by quoting Jude 1:3.

What did I mean by referring to "the faith" in Jude 1:3? I'll quote the verse and explain my understanding:

"Beloved, while eagerly preparing to write to you about the salvation we share, I find it necessary to write and appeal to you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints." (Jude 1:3, NRSV)

I find the first clause explained Jude's original intention of subject matter, "salvation"; but he found it necessary to expand it to cover "the faith" that was once for all entrusted to the saints. I find Scriptures show that phrase to be broader than the more narrow gospel of salvation by grace throgh faith. It covers all of life lived by the true disciples of Jesus Christ.

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will renounce the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, provided it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by God’s word and by prayer." (1Tim 4:1-5, NRSV)

"But he answered, 'It is written, ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” (Matt 4:4, NRSV)

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved by him, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly explaining the word of truth. Avoid profane chatter, for it will lead people into more and more impiety, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth by claiming that the resurrection has already taken place. They are upsetting the faith of some." (2Tim 2:15-18, NRSV)

There we have "the faith" concerning the timing of the resurrection, an eschatological issue!

I am in line with men of God, two of which are out of the past, on my understanding of what "the faith" means here, a couple of whom are dispensationalists themselves.

Joseph Benson, 18th C Methodist on Jude 3
"Hence it is evident that the faith for which Christians are to contend strenuously, is that alone which is contained in the writings of the evangelists, apostles, and Jewish prophets."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rbc/jude-1.html

Dr.Thomas L Constable, 20th C Dispensationalist
"The faith delivered to the saints is the special revelation of God that Scripture contains and the apostles preached (cf. Galatians 1:23; 1 Timothy 4:1)."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/dcc/jude-1.html

Arno C. Gaebelein, Born 1861, Dispensationalist
"What faith is meant? Not a creed or confession of faith as formulated by a denomination, sect or party, but the faith, which has been delivered once for all unto the saints. It is the same faith concerning which our Lord asked the question, “Nevertheless when the Son of Man cometh, shall He find the faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8 ) It is the faith revealed in the Word of God. The heart of that faith is the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the apostles’ doctrine made known by the Holy Spirit; it is therefore the whole body of revealed truth." https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/gab/jude-1.html

We are still waiting for your answer to my challenge in the OP or be shown as incapable of doing so!

 

[Ethan1942]

aion is age. They are talking about the end of the age that will be completed when christ returns, not the end of the world

the OT prophesied of this mystery age that Jesus spoke of, thats what they are asking

Since the disciples so often had misunderstood Jesus, we cannot read the disciples' mind on what they meant by "the end of the world/age". They possibly considered that the destruction of the temple would be the end of time, world or age. The same Greek word had been used previously in Matthew to refer to the end of time when judgment takes place, so it would be natural for them to take the word the same in Matt 24, whether the word is translated "world" or "age". The 1828 Webster's Dictionary gives 22 meanings for the word "world", so it is hardly a precise word in English. Whatever the disciples understood or did not understand, after Jesus gave the signs that gave the time of the destruction of the temple, He then said:

He had given signs to "this generation", but as to the end of the world he said:

“But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt 24:36, NRSV)

Charles Haddon Spurgeon had a great comment on this:


There is a manifest change in our Lord’s words here, which clearly indicates that they refer to his last great coming to judgment: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man .” Some would be prophets have wrested this verse from its evident meaning by saying, “Though we do not know the day and the hour of Christ’s coming, we may know the year, the month, and even the week.” If this method of “renting the words of Jesus is not blasphemous, it is certainly foolish, and betrays disloyalty to the King.



He added that, not only does no man know of that day and hour, but it is hidden from angelic beings also: “No, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. ” We need not therefore be troubled by idle prophecies of hair-brained fanatics, even if they claim to interpret the Scriptures; for what the angels do not know has not been revealed to them. Even Christ, in his human nature, so voluntarily limited his own capacities that he knew not the time of his Second Advent ( Mark 13:32). It is enough for us to know that he will surely come; our great concern should be to be ready for his appearing whenever he shall return. 37-39. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
http://www.godrules.net/library/spurgeon/45spurgeon27.htm

It is certain we are living in a day of "hair-brained fanatics"!

 

[chess-player]

1. Your attitude sux my friend. Humble yourself..
2. Do I get it now? Get what? That you have taken the promises which were given to ISREAL ONLY< and now tried to say it goes to the church (replacement theology)
3. You can say you have not replaced anything all you want. YOU HAVE

as for romans 11:

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own ]opinion,

This is written to you, in fact all of us gentiles!!!. He is telling US to stop considering yourself wise because you have been grafted in. and you think you are there now!!

that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Israel will remain BLIND UNTIL the fullness of the gentile has come!

then what???

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

ALL ISREAL (blind or not blind, the natural branches as compaired to the unnatural branches (saved gentiles)

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

JACOB. NOT GENTILES!!!

27 For this is My covenant with them,

Notice here, He says his covenant is with THEM (NOT YOU - Saved Gentiles)!!!

When I take away their sins.”

Ezek 37:
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.


28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake,

They are enemies of the gospel, because they still to this day as a nation reject it.

but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

This is a special election. Given to them as a NATION. through the fathers. the election STILL STANDS!!

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

When God says I will, or I give. He means it. He does not renig on his promises. they are irrevocable.. They are punished for their sins. But that does not mean they lost their gift..


In your own words. DO YOU GET IT NOW!!!!

Did you read Romans 9:6-8, and chapter 11 from verse one? Try it, and you will come to a different conclusion. All Israel means all the people that had previously come to Christ up to the destruction of the temple.

 

[Ethan1942]

Great points, I just wanted to add:

Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity. They aren't quite Jewish and they aren't quite Christian in the same sense that Mormons and Moslems aren't quite Christian. It's part of the reason we see so much fighting about exegesis. In their mind their exegetics are true to their source material. And well... they are right, but only because they aren't using the same source material as Christians.

Dispensationalists reject Rom 9 and Gal 3, they reject that a Jew could be a Christian, in their source material all Christians are gentiles and no Christian has Jewish heritage. In their source material, even if a Jew called themselves a Christian, they are still considered a Jew first (this is contrary to Christian scripture but completely consistent with modern Talmudic teachings, which Dispensationalism follows after). The Dispensationalist tie to Talmudism creates a bit of a conundrum. If they reveal the fact that they are taking notes from an antiChrist doctrine, it ruins their chances of proselytising. It's part of the reason that they all eventually become vicious when you point out that their beliefs are contrary to Christian scripture. Even if you suggest that their interpretation is possibly wrong, they will become vicious if they feel they have lost traction. Scam artists react in the same way when their sham is being called out. Anyone can look back and see, their complaints and accusations are never based on anything factual, and they often accuse others of the things that they do.

Basically, if you want to understand Dispensationalism better, all you need to do is read the Talmud and other modern Judaic material. If you want to understand why they are so gung ho about the 1000 year kingdom and the interpretation that the church would be "raptured away" prior to that point, it is because it allows some consistency with the Talmudic Judaic 1000 year kingdom where Jews enslave the world with their messiah.

1) Dispensationalists reject the parts of scripture that talk about there being no difference between Jews and Gentiles and especially the parts that state that elect Gentiles became God's people too and heirs to the Abraham promises through Christ.

2) In Talmudic Judaism, the heaven/hell situation is a bit different. There is Shoel, which is basically like purgatory, and there is "hypergrace" for all Jews. This also part of the reason that Dispensationalists recognize a hypergrace for all physical Jews.

3) Talmudic Jews also believe that only Talmudic Jews will fulfil the land promise to Abraham and that only Talmudic Jews (or those with the potential to join as a Talmudic Jew) count as Jews. This is part of the reason that Dispensationalists refuse to acknowledge that Jews could be Christian, or that any historical Jew could have given up their Jewish identity. Dispensationalists have a hard time talking about Biblical figures such as Paul and Christ and how they fit into the promise dynamic.

When you're arguing against the falsehoods of Dispensationalism, it's fruitful to remember the Talmudic influence in their beliefs.

I'm always surprised by the new tricks they develop in order to avoid the clear contradiction they have with Christian scripture. The latest one I've seen here was the claim that when Gal 3:16 is talking about promises to Abraham's seed, that it apparently wasn't actually talking about promises to Abraham's seed. And that out of the three seed promises made to Abraham, that apparently there was a hidden additional "salvation seed promise" or two that Gal 3:16 would refer to.

The answer is clearly placed in front of them, they just appear blind to it, hardened to it, or otherwise unreceptive. It's a practice in patience. And like tantruming teenagers, the hope is that eventually they will wake up out of it.

Stand strong against their lies. 1+1=2 and Dispensationalism is just another false religion.

Brother, having been in Scofield dispensationalism when young, I began to see something very serious. It is about "pride". As a dispensationalist, when I visited another church, my first inclination was to check to see what Study Bible they used. If the congregation wasn't using the Scofield, they just weren't accomplished students of the Scriptures as we dispensationalists were. My younger days was before so many of the dispensationalist study bibles of today, it was mainly Scofield then. I later found it laughable to remember my Pastor informing us that churches that taught a general resurrection and a general judgment were Bible denying modernists! hahahaha.... Yet the key points of dispensationalism can't be found in the writings of Bible scholars prior to the 1800s. Dispensationalism is the true modernism.

 

[chess-player]

1. Your attitude sux my friend. Humble yourself..
2. Do I get it now? Get what? That you have taken the promises which were given to ISREAL ONLY< and now tried to say it goes to the church (replacement theology)
3. You can say you have not replaced anything all you want. YOU HAVE

as for romans 11:

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own ]opinion,

This is written to you, in fact all of us gentiles!!!. He is telling US to stop considering yourself wise because you have been grafted in. and you think you are there now!!

that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Israel will remain BLIND UNTIL the fullness of the gentile has come!

then what???

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

ALL ISREAL (blind or not blind, the natural branches as compaired to the unnatural branches (saved gentiles)

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

JACOB. NOT GENTILES!!!

27 For this is My covenant with them,

Notice here, He says his covenant is with THEM (NOT YOU - Saved Gentiles)!!!

When I take away their sins.”

Ezek 37:
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.


28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake,

They are enemies of the gospel, because they still to this day as a nation reject it.

but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

This is a special election. Given to them as a NATION. through the fathers. the election STILL STANDS!!

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

When God says I will, or I give. He means it. He does not renig on his promises. they are irrevocable.. They are punished for their sins. But that does not mean they lost their gift..


In your own words. DO YOU GET IT NOW!!!!

The day you put Christ first in your life, and worship Him with all your heart, it will be the day you'll understand what I'm saying. Reading isolated verses out of the scriptures does not help anyone to understand what the scriptures are truly saying. You must read the whole book first before you can concentrate on a particular verse. Context is king.

The promise to Israel was Christ because not all Israel was Israel (Rom. 9:6). You are concentrating on the children of the flesh, NOT on the children of the PROMISE. There were two different kinds of people inside the same nation.

Rom. 9:6-8 "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants shall be named.”
8 That is, it is NOT the children of the flesh who are children of God, BUT the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."

 

[Evmur]

Joshua 21:45 "Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; everything came to pass."

Joshua 23:14 (NASB 2020) “Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the Lord your God spoke concerning you has failed; they all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed."

1 Kings 8:56 (NASB 2020) “Blessed be the Lord, who has given rest to His people Israel in accordance with everything that He promised; not one word has failed of all His good promise, which He promised through Moses His servant."

The land was God's, not theirs. Remember that the next time you post.

2 Chronicles 7:20 (NASB 2020) "Then I will uproot you from My land which I have given you, and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight; and I will make it a proverb and an object of scorn among all peoples."

Jeremiah 2:7 (NASB 2020) “I brought you into the fruitful land to eat its fruit and its good things. But you came and defiled My land, and you made My inheritance an abomination."

Jeremiah 16:18 (NASB 2020) "I will first repay them double for their wrongdoing and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable idols and their abominations.”

half truths, God promised them the ends of the earth and He promised that He would bring them home to their land in the latter days. He promised that Israel would be the GREATEST nation and that Jerusalem would be the GREATEST city.

 

[Ethan1942]

I don't know what they are, but I know what I am. You find what you're looking for, your bias will blind you to anything else. Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional and eternal. Eternal, I'm pretty sure, is past the NT

The promise of the land was only for Israel's obedience and they lost it, after having FULL possession of it. What is eternal, everlasting, is salvation through faith in God. I cannot understand why people will not believe the clear words of Scripture in the following:

"Now, as you see, I am going the way of all mortals. You know in your heart of hearts, all of you, that nothing the Lord your God promised you has failed to come true, not one word of it. But the same Lord God who has kept his word to you to such good effect can equally bring every kind of evil on you, until he has rooted you out from this good land which he has given you. If you violate the covenant which the Lord your God has laid upon you and go and serve other gods and worship them, then the Lord’s anger will be roused against you and the good land he has given you will soon see you no more." (Josh 23:14-16, REB)

It is clear you have not done a word study of "for ever" and "everlasting", the Hebrew H5769 עוֹלָם `owlam (o-lawm') n-m.

The word has many meanings and uses, and dispensationalists pick the one that will fit their erroneous theology while ignoring the fact the word does not always mean what they insist upon. Especially when the Scriptures as in the above deny their claims.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I notice you evaded the challenge and proceeded to duck the issue. You class me with "amil/preterists", which I am NOT,

May I ask what you are? If your not one of them, you would be the first in whatever group you fall under.

and claim I am making this about a salvation issue. You are making a false statement about what I wrote. I did not mention "salvation", but I referred to Jude 1:3, "the faith" once for all delivered to the saints.

The faith once and for all delivered is the gospel. Which concerns salvation.

Thank you for prety much confirming what I said

You have exhibited so clearly what it took me 30 years to see, having been so long blinded by dispensationalist "truisms". You side-stepped the challenge by making unfounded and silly claims trying to disprove what I meant by quoting Jude 1:3.

What did I mean by referring to "the faith" in Jude 1:3? I'll quote the verse and explain my understanding:

"Beloved, while eagerly preparing to write to you about the salvation we share, I find it necessary to write and appeal to you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints." (Jude 1:3, NRSV)

I find the first clause explained Jude's original intention of subject matter, "salvation"; but he found it necessary to expand it to cover "the faith" that was once for all entrusted to the saints. I find Scriptures show that phrase to be broader than the more narrow gospel of salvation by grace throgh faith. It covers all of life lived by the true disciples of Jesus Christ.

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will renounce the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, provided it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by God’s word and by prayer." (1Tim 4:1-5, NRSV)

"But he answered, 'It is written, ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” (Matt 4:4, NRSV)

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved by him, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly explaining the word of truth. Avoid profane chatter, for it will lead people into more and more impiety, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth by claiming that the resurrection has already taken place. They are upsetting the faith of some." (2Tim 2:15-18, NRSV)

There we have "the faith" concerning the timing of the resurrection, an eschatological issue!

I am in line with men of God, two of which are out of the past, on my understanding of what "the faith" means here, a couple of whom are dispensationalists themselves.

Joseph Benson, 18th C Methodist on Jude 3
"Hence it is evident that the faith for which Christians are to contend strenuously, is that alone which is contained in the writings of the evangelists, apostles, and Jewish prophets."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rbc/jude-1.html

Dr.Thomas L Constable, 20th C Dispensationalist
"The faith delivered to the saints is the special revelation of God that Scripture contains and the apostles preached (cf. Galatians 1:23; 1 Timothy 4:1)."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/dcc/jude-1.html

Arno C. Gaebelein, Born 1861, Dispensationalist
"What faith is meant? Not a creed or confession of faith as formulated by a denomination, sect or party, but the faith, which has been delivered once for all unto the saints. It is the same faith concerning which our Lord asked the question, “Nevertheless when the Son of Man cometh, shall He find the faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8 ) It is the faith revealed in the Word of God. The heart of that faith is the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the apostles’ doctrine made known by the Holy Spirit; it is therefore the whole body of revealed truth." https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/gab/jude-1.html

We are still waiting for your answer to my challenge in the OP or be shown as incapable of doing so!

I am not sure what the above has to do with out conversation.

It does not prove that God is done with the jews and what they are prophesied to do in the end, at Christs return.

 

[Evmur]

Yet God tells us this
Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom_10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
Col 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world dispensationalist want His kingdom to be of this world. The Scriptures say
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Some folks are looking for signs and wonders.

We know all that and yet China was not reached, or even all Europe. Paul obviously means the Greco/Roman world

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Since the disciples so often had misunderstood Jesus, we cannot read the disciples' mind on what they meant by "the end of the world/age". They possibly considered that the destruction of the temple would be the end of time, world or age. The same Greek word had been used previously in Matthew to refer to the end of time when judgment takes place, so it would be natural for them to take the word the same in Matt 24, whether the word is translated "world" or "age". The 1828 Webster's Dictionary gives 22 meanings for the word "world", so it is hardly a precise word in English. Whatever the disciples understood or did not understand, after Jesus gave the signs that gave the time of the destruction of the temple, He then said:

He had given signs to "this generation", but as to the end of the world he said:

“But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt 24:36, NRSV)

Charles Haddon Spurgeon had a great comment on this:


There is a manifest change in our Lord’s words here, which clearly indicates that they refer to his last great coming to judgment: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man .” Some would be prophets have wrested this verse from its evident meaning by saying, “Though we do not know the day and the hour of Christ’s coming, we may know the year, the month, and even the week.” If this method of “renting the words of Jesus is not blasphemous, it is certainly foolish, and betrays disloyalty to the King.



He added that, not only does no man know of that day and hour, but it is hidden from angelic beings also: “No, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. ” We need not therefore be troubled by idle prophecies of hair-brained fanatics, even if they claim to interpret the Scriptures; for what the angels do not know has not been revealed to them. Even Christ, in his human nature, so voluntarily limited his own capacities that he knew not the time of his Second Advent ( Mark 13:32). It is enough for us to know that he will surely come; our great concern should be to be ready for his appearing whenever he shall return. 37-39. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
http://www.godrules.net/library/spurgeon/45spurgeon27.htm

It is certain we are living in a day of "hair-brained fanatics"!

Matt 24: 3 NKJV
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Matt 24: 3 NET
3 As[a] he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, his disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things[b] happen? And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Matt 24: 3 NASB
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Matt 24: 3 NIV
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Matt 24: 3 HCSB
3 While He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached Him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

Matt 24: 3 LEB
3 And as[a] he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came up to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Matt 24: 3 ESV
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

can you please tell me where you get the term end of the world?

 

[Evmur]

Are Dispensationalists Judaizers? I do believe they come close to that.

Read the article in the Jewish Magazine:
http://www.jewishmag.com/157mag/israel_returns_to_promised_land/israel_returns_to_promised_land.htm

The last paragraph of that article reads:

"The Twelve Israelite Tribes will have become one People again, the Kingdom of priests, the light to the World. Through this unified and redeemed nation of Israel all the Divine Blessings of the Bible will come to pass into this world. It will be their Divinely ordained task and destiny to teach and guide the nations to worship one God of the Universe, God of Israel, by demonstrating righteousness, holiness, kindness and God’s love to all inhabitants of the earth in order to merit together the Messianic Era and life in the World to Come."

The New Testament tells us otherwise:

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." (1Pet 1:10-11, KJV)

Read the OT prophecies applied to the New Covenant believers, the true Israel of God:

Joel 2:28 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acts 2:16, 17
2 Sam 7:12, Psa 132:11 >>>>>> Acts 2:30, 31
Zech 12:9, 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 19:36, 37
Amos 9:11, 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Acts 15:13-16
Jer. 31:31, 33 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heb 8:1, 4, 6-8
Mal 4:5, 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke 1:17; Matt 11:13, 14

I find nothing anywhere in the New Testament that indicates Jews return to Palestine again, after the 1st century.

In the NT testament they hadn't yet left the land. But in the OT God had warned them that they would be chucked out ... but He promised their return in the latter days. To quote the warning and it's fulfilment but not the promise is tantamount to a wicked lie.

 

[Beckie]

We know all that and yet China was not reached, or even all Europe. Paul obviously means the Greco/Roman world

you said this.....The good news of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations

Well if as you say , he was speaking of the Greco/Roman world then it was preached to all he was speaking of .

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Did you read Romans 9:6-8, and chapter 11 from verse one? Try it, and you will come to a different conclusion. All Israel means all the people that had previously come to Christ up to the destruction of the temple.

Rom 9 concerns salvation. According to salvation, there is no jew or gentile

so no, I will not come up to a different conclusion

Rom 11 asks the question. Is God done with Isreal

His answer is NO (thats why there is still a remnant

Once again. If you would get of the salvation issue, and look to the land issue. You would see

 

[Beckie]

In the NT testament they hadn't yet left the land. But in the OT God had warned them that they would be chucked out ... but He promised their return in the latter days. To quote the warning and it's fulfilment but not the promise is tantamount to a wicked lie.

Did they have all the land God showed to Abraham? They were not in control of the land they had Roam was. Christ is the promise so dispy to want the land instead of Jesus .

 

[Ethan1942]

We do not believe Jews are saved aprt from repentance and belief in Christ just like we are.

If Jesus was the final and true sacrifice by being slain in the last days, how can dispensationalists adhere to the following in their idea of a future 1000 year kingdom where Christ rules in Jerusalem?

"There were also four tables of hewn stone for the burnt offering, a cubit and a half long, and one cubit and a half wide, and one cubit high, on which the instruments were to be laid with which the burnt offerings and the sacrifices were slaughtered." (Ezek 40:42, NRSV)

That is the point I find most blasphemous in dispensationalism. It was also a point never emphasized from the pulpit, yet most people in the pews of dispensationalist churches are not aware that is taught because of a nutty literalism of Ezekiel.

How can you have faith in the sacrifice of Christ when you are going to repeat it over and over in your idea of the millennium? It can't be seen as merely a memorial because Christ is there with you so you don't need to memorialize!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The day you put Christ first in your life, and worship Him with all your heart, it will be the day you'll understand what I'm saying.

You still being proud my friend. I have done this. And I still can not BELIEVE what you are saying

ps. I understand what you are saying quite clear.. That is not the question. I disagree with it..

Reading isolated verses out of the scriptures does not help anyone to understand what the scriptures are truly saying. You must read the whole book first before you can concentrate on a particular verse. Context is king.

The promise to Israel was Christ because not all Israel was Israel (Rom. 9:6). You are concentrating on the children of the flesh, NOT on the children of the PROMISE. There were two different kinds of people inside the same nation.

Rom. 9:6-8 "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants shall be named.”
8 That is, it is NOT the children of the flesh who are children of God, BUT the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."

Your isolating romans 9, then telling me not to isolate verses..

Read chapter 11. Read Gen 12 15 and 17.

read ez 37 and so much more..

these passage do not allow me to believe in your view.