And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[kleronomos]

That refers to the immortal bodies of believers.

REALLY? Where IS THAT WRITTEN?

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 10:25~ When the whirlwind passes, the wicked is no more, but the righteous has an everlasting foundation.

 

[kleronomos]

You are trying in vain to equate physical punishment with soul punishment. And you have no basis for saying anything about the soul.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Mark 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


being able both soul and body to destroy in hell


Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.




Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons....


Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[kleronomos]

I believe what the Bible says. Unbelievers will be tormented (more or less tolerable than others) eternally.

THEN SHOW THE BIBLE SAYING IT.

 

[kleronomos]

Tell that to God, who gave us His plan for unbelievers. Again, what you are expressing here is just your maudlin sentiments. It is YOU who can't stand what God will do to all unbelievers.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE 2ND DEATH.

DEATH does not equal ETERNAL conscious torment.

Consciousness REQUIRES ON TO BE LIVING, NOT DEAD. It isn't the 2nd TORMENTED LIVING they are cast into.

Death. The SMOKE of the torment rising up

Death. Body and soul CONSUMED

Death. The dead KNOW NOTHING.

 

[kleronomos]

Proverbs 10:25~ When the whirlwind passes, the wicked is no more, but the righteous has an everlasting foundation.

I agree. And I thank you

 

[Magenta]

I agree. And I thank you

Romans 6:23~ The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You are welcome

 

[kleronomos]

I doubt you will answer this question, because it proves your theory wrong.

I am not the one saying SOMETHING is written that isn't.


YOU are saying PUNISHMENT must be consciousness therefore eternal consciousness.

You have yet to PROVE that is what GOD IS SAYING 'DEATH' is and that is the problem because GOD DOESNT say that. GOD SAYS


Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


DEATH. The PENALTY FOR SIN IS DEATH. The punishment for sin is death. The 2nd death is FOREVER. no 'rising' up ever again.


What is the OPPOSITE of living and breathing and thinking and feeling? DEATH, not living not breathing not thinking not feeling THE PUNISHMENT is the loss of life, forever and ever.

New heaven and New earth NOT GOING TO BE AROUND TO SEE IT AS they got PUNISHED by losing their lives forever. Such a shame.

 

[Jackson123]

You are taking issue with the wrong person. It is THE LORD you need to speak with, not me.


YOU ARE TEACHING the EXACT opposite of WHAT IS WRITTEN and what is written in more than a couple of places.


WHAT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING
the old earth may passed away but not all former thing passed away



It makes me sad, but I am going to have to put you on ignore so as I don't get into trouble with the Lord myself as I can see this will only come from praying to Him for the answers you seek. AGAIN, I have given you what is written and I have shown you that what you thought was written wasn't. That is all I can do. Believe it or not. I have done my best.

PRAYER is the answer. Prayer is always the answer.




Maybe this Psalm will help. If not I hope you find someone who will.






Psalm 37:1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

Psalm 37:2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

Psalm 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

Psalm 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Psalm 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

Psalm 37:6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

Psalm 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Psalm 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

Psalm 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psalm 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

Psalm 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psalm 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

Psalm 37:13 The LORD shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

Psalm 37:14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

Psalm 37:15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

Psalm 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.

Psalm 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.

Psalm 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

Psalm 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Psalm 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.

Psalm 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Psalm 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Psalm 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Psalm 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Psalm 37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.

Psalm 37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.

Psalm 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalm 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Psalm 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

Psalm 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

Psalm 37:32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.

Psalm 37:33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

Psalm 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

Psalm 37:35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.

Psalm 37:36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.

Psalm 37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.

Psalm 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.


8045. shamad ►
Strong's Concordance
shamad: to be exterminated or destroyed
Original Word: שָׁמַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamad
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mad')
Definition: to be exterminated or destroyed
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to be exterminated or destroyed
NASB Translation
completely (1), demolish (2), destroy (36), destroyed (41), destruction (2), eradicated (1), exterminate (2), totally destroy (1), utterly destroyed (1), wipe (1).

destruction, bring to nothing, overthrow, perish, pluck down, utterly
A primitive root; to desolate -- destory(- uction), bring to nought, overthrow, perish, pluck down, X utterly.


3772. karath ►
Strong's Concordance
karath: to cut off, cut down
Original Word: כָּרַת
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: karath
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-rath')
Definition: to cut off, cut down



Psalm 37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.

Psalm 37:40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.


The Lord is my Rock.

I only response 2 point
1 you interpretation God wipe all tear from their eyes out of context
God wipe all tears from believer not to unbeliever
the word all refer to tears not all human, twisted or wrong information

2. perish do not mean cease to exist
This is online dictionary definition of perish

suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.

 

[Magenta]

Apollumi: Strongs Concordance # 622

 

[Jackson123]

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Matthew 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Matthew 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


INTO the everlasting fire, to be consumed, turned into nothing more than a puff of smoke, ascending into nothingness, not a thought not a breath, not a feeling, not a pain, DEATH OF BODY AND SOUL COMPLETE, blotted out. Twice DEAD.

You change everlasting punishment into everlasting fire

fire and punishment are 2 different word that have 2 different meaning
to make bible fit to your false doctrine

 

[Magenta]

You change everlasting punishment into everlasting fire

Both are used, and both were given:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Despite your false accusation.

 

[Jackson123]

Both are used, and both were given:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Despite your false accusation.

Than we must make conclusion
is everlasting fire contradict everlasting punishment?

if you interpreted everlasting fire make goat only suffer a minute than cease to exist than verse 41 contradict verse 46

jesus not contradict Himself

so eternal fire in verse 41 make to do eternal punishment on 46

 

[Runningman]

Please rephrase your confusing sentence. An eternal punishment is punishment that lasts for an eternity. You don't like that.

That narrative exists nowhere in the Bible. The eternal punishment is death. How many more pages do you need to be told this?

 

[Runningman]

You've been continually attacking the whole church. See above. You have become arrogant.
Perhaps promotion of a false doctrine does that to a person.

Now, I'm ignoring you.

I don’t think any honest person would say any of those comments you quoted are attacks. Saying the church is deceived isn’t an attack. The word deceive just means causing someone to believe something that isn’t true. While that isn’t satisfying, it’s just the reality. Your feelings don’t negate the reality of this.

Ignore me if you wish. I have work to do trying to help the church out of a ditch.

 

[Runningman]

Than we must make conclusion
is everlasting fire contradict everlasting punishment?

if you interpreted everlasting fire make goat only suffer a minute than cease to exist than verse 41 contradict verse 46

jesus not contradict Himself

so eternal fire in verse 41 make to do eternal punishment on 46

Let’s believe the Bible is in complete harmony because that’s necessary. If Matt 25:46 says everlasting punishment and the rest of the Old Testament and New Testament says the wicked are destroyed, or perish, or have death then what’s the eternal punishment exactly? This isn’t a trick question. The Bible lacks the verses to show eternal torment for all of the unsaved.

 

[Jackson123]

Let’s believe the Bible is in complete harmony because that’s necessary. If Matt 25:46 says everlasting punishment and the rest of the Old Testament and New Testament says the wicked are destroyed, or perish, or have death then what’s the eternal punishment exactly? This isn’t a trick question. The Bible lacks the verses to show eternal torment for all of the unsaved.

Let’s believe the Bible is in complete harmony because that’s necessary. If Matt 25:46 says everlasting punishment and the rest of the Old Testament and New Testament says the wicked are destroyed, or perish, or have death then what’s the eternal punishment exactly? This isn’t a trick question. The Bible lacks the verses to show eternal torment for all of the unsaved.

definition of torment

severe physical or mental suffering.
"their deaths have left both families in torment"
is there a verse use term torment for hell, I think so

reve 20
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night ...

After I compare with Matt 25:46 to me it mean eternal or non stop

 

[Runningman]

definition of torment

severe physical or mental suffering.
"their deaths have left both families in torment"
is there a verse use term torment for hell, I think so

reve 20
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night ...

After I compare with Matt 25:46 to me it mean eternal or non stop

That verse says it’s only three people and it isn’t literal.

Study Isaiah 34:

Isaiah 34:9,10
9Edom’s streams will be turned to tar,
and her soil to sulfur;
her land will become a blazing pitch.
10It will not be quenched—day or night.
Its smoke will ascend forever.
From generation to generation it will lie desolate;
no one will ever again pass through it.

Edom isn’t burning forever. Fact. But now you take the same language in Revelation 20:10 and say it’s literal. That’s not how the Bible is correctly interpreted.

 

[Jackson123]

That verse says it’s only three people and it isn’t literal.

Study Isaiah 34:

Isaiah 34:9,10
9Edom’s streams will be turned to tar,
and her soil to sulfur;
her land will become a blazing pitch.
10It will not be quenched—day or night.
Its smoke will ascend forever.
From generation to generation it will lie desolate;
no one will ever again pass through it.

Edom isn’t burning forever. Fact. But now you take the same language in Revelation 20:10 and say it’s literal. That’s not how the Bible is correctly interpreted.

In Matt 25 Lord Jesus separate all human into 2 category
1. sheep or believer, people ,with love help the needy
2. goat or non believer, shown no love to the needy

sheep go to eternal heaven
goat go to eternal punishment

what do you mean by only 3

 

[Runningman]

In Matt 25 Lord Jesus separate all human into 2 category
1. sheep or believer, people ,with love help the needy
2. goat or non believer, shown no love to the needy

sheep go to eternal heaven
goat go to eternal punishment

what do you mean by only 3

The righteous get eternal life. The unrighteous don’t get eternal life, they get eternal punishment. Revelation 20 says the punishment is the 2nd death. It’s the 2nd death because they are resurrected then die again.

Revelation 20:10 only names 3 people: devil, beast, false prophet.

What isn’t clear about this?