Hypocrites beware
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H
Nothing further need be added. Great point 
It is also true that many charasmatics are charlatans if they want money and lots of it. But many show the fruit of the spirit and have true joy and love and peace.
You cannot equate charasmatic with charlatan unless there is the selling of the Holy Spirit for money.
thanks hearer.
that's PAUL SPEAKING. not you. not VW. Paul.
Jesus personally selected His 12, personally discipled them and sent 11 as Apostles into the world. He selected Paul post Ascension. He did send others He Himself had taught, and they had authority to establish pastors and teachers.
many of those men and women were granted supernatural abilities (for a PURPOSE); were having God's Plan and Will revealed to them, and were the foundation of the Church.
all but John were brutally murdered and tortured. and John suffered immensely.
but some middle class comfy (but oh so PIOUS) charismatic evangelicals think God has made them Apostles and Prophets. they think its' about them. as ususal. let's see what PAUL says about men who make that claim.
READ PAUL'S WORDS IN 2 CORINTHIANS 11: Paul and the False Apostles
2 Corinthians 11
Paul and the False Apostles
1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. 6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.
7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God’s gospel to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and was in need, I did not burden anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied my need. So I refrained and will refrain from burdening you in any way. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. 11 And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Paul’s Sufferings as an Apostle
16 I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not with the Lord’s authority but as a fool. 18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24 Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
how many times have you or VW been lbeaten at the hands of the jews?
how many months have you or VW spent on a cold stone floor in prison?
how many churches did Jesus Christ PERSONALLY have you or VW establish?
how many authoritative epistles have you or VW written....may i see them?
that's PAUL SPEAKING. not you. not VW. Paul.
Jesus personally selected His 12, personally discipled them and sent 11 as Apostles into the world. He selected Paul post Ascension. He did send others He Himself had taught, and they had authority to establish pastors and teachers.
many of those men and women were granted supernatural abilities (for a PURPOSE); were having God's Plan and Will revealed to them, and were the foundation of the Church.
all but John were brutally murdered and tortured. and John suffered immensely.
but some middle class comfy (but oh so PIOUS) charismatic evangelicals think God has made them Apostles and Prophets. they think its' about them. as ususal. let's see what PAUL says about men who make that claim.
READ PAUL'S WORDS IN 2 CORINTHIANS 11: Paul and the False Apostles
2 Corinthians 11
Paul and the False Apostles
1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. 6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.
7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God’s gospel to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and was in need, I did not burden anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied my need. So I refrained and will refrain from burdening you in any way. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. 11 And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Paul’s Sufferings as an Apostle
16 I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not with the Lord’s authority but as a fool. 18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24 Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
how many times have you or VW been lbeaten at the hands of the jews?
how many months have you or VW spent on a cold stone floor in prison?
how many churches did Jesus Christ PERSONALLY have you or VW establish?
how many authoritative epistles have you or VW written....may i see them?
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H
the sign of a person born again is that they wait for the seed to sprout and the leaf to come and then the head of corn then the harvest comes. He does not know how it comes but it comes. So it is that those who are born again will be known by their fruits and the fruits are that the person has no malice, but has joy, contentment and love and peace and patience.
So I know you seek out the false apostles which I might be if I do not have faith as afruit and as a gift. But you also, have you not read:
Revelation 2
The Loveless Church
1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
Do you love?
do you love your enemy?
do you have deep warm and ongoing affection for Jesus in the adoration of your heart?
or do you have malice?
So I know you seek out the false apostles which I might be if I do not have faith as afruit and as a gift. But you also, have you not read:
Revelation 2
The Loveless Church
1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
Do you love?
do you love your enemy?
do you have deep warm and ongoing affection for Jesus in the adoration of your heart?
or do you have malice?
yes hearer. i do.
you don't see that though. i'm okay with that.
knowing and deliberate enemies of the Cross, people who LIE to the church in the name of Jesus , however, have a little less of my 'affection'.
in fact, they can expect resistence from me (but see dear friend you don't know what my prayers are....nor my motivations).
clear?
also: could you please go back and if possible address the chapter on Paul and THE FALSE APOSTLES?
thank you
love zone.
you don't see that though. i'm okay with that.
knowing and deliberate enemies of the Cross, people who LIE to the church in the name of Jesus , however, have a little less of my 'affection'.
in fact, they can expect resistence from me (but see dear friend you don't know what my prayers are....nor my motivations).
clear?
also: could you please go back and if possible address the chapter on Paul and THE FALSE APOSTLES?
thank you
love zone.
H
yes hearer. i do.
you don't see that though. i'm okay with that.
knowing and deliberate enemies of the Cross, people who LIE to the church in the name of Jesus , however, have a little less of my 'affection'.
in fact, they can expect resistence from me (but see dear friend you don't know what my prayers are....nor my motivations).
clear?
also: could you please go back and if possible address the chapter on Paul and THE FALSE APOSTLES?
thank you
love zone.
you don't see that though. i'm okay with that.
knowing and deliberate enemies of the Cross, people who LIE to the church in the name of Jesus , however, have a little less of my 'affection'.
in fact, they can expect resistence from me (but see dear friend you don't know what my prayers are....nor my motivations).
clear?
also: could you please go back and if possible address the chapter on Paul and THE FALSE APOSTLES?
thank you
love zone.
So I do boast. But I also suffer. I boast in and lay claim to the fact that:
- Psalm 9:18
the needy will not always be forgotten, nor the hope of the afflicted ever perish.
- Psalm 10:17
You hear, O LORD, the desire of the afflicted; you encourage them, and you listen to their cry,
Perhaps you are right and I am boastful super-apostle. Then I still know that I am not undercondemnation but that Jesus still jsutifies me because he loves me. I have thus the unassailable love of Jesus. It is a strong strong tower and i am permanently in it.
So I do boast. Therefore you might be right. But then I ask my question again, what about your first love?
T
First you accuse Ramon of pride now VW, maybe they are not proud, maybe you are the one who is just to blinded to accept the fact that you might be wrong sometimes... And please before you call somebody proud or just assume that their threads are full of pride. I think you should understand that the wrong things we notice or cirtisize people of are mostly things that we ourselves are guilty of.
LUKE 6:37.. JUDGE NOT AND YE SHALL NOT BE JUDGED. CONDEMN NOT AND YES SHALL NOT BE CONDEMNED, FORGIVE AND YE SHALL BE FORGIVEN
MATTHEW 3-5 : AND WHY BEHOLDEST THOU THE MOTE THAT IS THY BROTHER'S EYE (NOTICING THEIR PRIDE), BUT CONSIDEREST NOT THE BEAM THAT IS IN THINE OWN EYE?.
OR HOW WILL THOU SAY TO THY BROTHER, LET ME PULL OUT THE MOTE OUT OF THINE EYE AND BEHOLD A BEAM IS IN THINE OWN EYE?.
THOU HYPOCRITE, FIRST CAST OUT THE BEAM OUT OF THINE OWN EYE AND THEN SHALT THOU SEE CLEARLY TO CAST OUT THE MOTE OUT OF THY BROTHER'S EYE!
LUKE 6:37.. JUDGE NOT AND YE SHALL NOT BE JUDGED. CONDEMN NOT AND YES SHALL NOT BE CONDEMNED, FORGIVE AND YE SHALL BE FORGIVEN
MATTHEW 3-5 : AND WHY BEHOLDEST THOU THE MOTE THAT IS THY BROTHER'S EYE (NOTICING THEIR PRIDE), BUT CONSIDEREST NOT THE BEAM THAT IS IN THINE OWN EYE?.
OR HOW WILL THOU SAY TO THY BROTHER, LET ME PULL OUT THE MOTE OUT OF THINE EYE AND BEHOLD A BEAM IS IN THINE OWN EYE?.
THOU HYPOCRITE, FIRST CAST OUT THE BEAM OUT OF THINE OWN EYE AND THEN SHALT THOU SEE CLEARLY TO CAST OUT THE MOTE OUT OF THY BROTHER'S EYE!
my first love remains burning within me, dear friend. not to worry.
so, you are an Apostle, also, then?
i don't need all that proof of your humility and such, but thank you.
i was hoping for a specific answer to a very precise question that a man who understands the scriptures ought to be able to answer with authority:
is Jesus actually commissioning Apostles and Prophets as He did at the foundation of the church....are you one of them?
i suppose i would direct you back again to Paul's letter: would you be a false Apostle, not according to the world, but according to Paul?
love zone.
so, you are an Apostle, also, then?
i don't need all that proof of your humility and such, but thank you.
i was hoping for a specific answer to a very precise question that a man who understands the scriptures ought to be able to answer with authority:
is Jesus actually commissioning Apostles and Prophets as He did at the foundation of the church....are you one of them?
i suppose i would direct you back again to Paul's letter: would you be a false Apostle, not according to the world, but according to Paul?
love zone.
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H
the false apostles
1) preach a jesus other than the one in the gospels
2) received a different spirit
3) do not work free of charge and burden the taxes of the church or "sell the Spirit".
I do not do any of these things. Jesus is the Jesus who came in the flesh and died and rose again for our sins
The spirit of God is the Holy Spirit and is the creator of life which procedes from the father and the son.
I work for free and do not gain any funds from what I do nor do I place any tax burden on a church.
But I do not write epistles, nor do I feed the multiitudes nor do I heal anyone. But I am voice crying in the wilderness and I am not worthy to even tie the shoelaces of jesus.
1) preach a jesus other than the one in the gospels
2) received a different spirit
3) do not work free of charge and burden the taxes of the church or "sell the Spirit".
I do not do any of these things. Jesus is the Jesus who came in the flesh and died and rose again for our sins
The spirit of God is the Holy Spirit and is the creator of life which procedes from the father and the son.
I work for free and do not gain any funds from what I do nor do I place any tax burden on a church.
But I do not write epistles, nor do I feed the multiitudes nor do I heal anyone. But I am voice crying in the wilderness and I am not worthy to even tie the shoelaces of jesus.
hearer.
i have just ONE question:
is Jesus commissioning Apostles and Prophets as He did at the Foundation of the Church?
the answer is either YES or NO.
incidentally: please never again apply John the Baptist's words to yourself (this is blasphemy). Jesus said John was the greatest in the Kingdom: not YOU
thank you
love zone.
i have just ONE question:
is Jesus commissioning Apostles and Prophets as He did at the Foundation of the Church?
the answer is either YES or NO.
incidentally: please never again apply John the Baptist's words to yourself (this is blasphemy). Jesus said John was the greatest in the Kingdom: not YOU
thank you
love zone.
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U
I also profess that they are not modern day prophets as well Tobby. But knock yourself out with the extracurriculars if you so choose. Incidentally, if we are honest with ourselves, each of us would admit to the sin of pride to some extent. Some greater than others. If you find yourself in agreement with their proclamations of damnation against Christ's church and His beloved, perhaps you would do well to recognize that in doing so, you are sanctioning judgement upon those whom Christ has redeemed with His precious blood. Good luck with that Tobby
A
you know I was thinking of that parable the other day. how you are suppose to give everything to GOD and how HE gives you a burden to take care of. Most people don't know what that is, but I think it is your life, your thoughts your own mind you are suppose to plant the words of God inside yourself and bear fruit. however if you waste your life away by hiding what God has given you. then it will be taken away.
Sometimes God allows us to help care for the lives of others: children, friends, family, etc. But we should always remember they belong to God and cherish the time God allows us to spend together.
as for the hypocrites I do not concern myself with them except for be careful that I do not act in a manner that will make me among their number. For Jesus tells us that Satan likes to come as an angel of Light and his minions like to disguise themselves as preachers of righteousness.
The false religions do a better job at showing what works salvation is.
they do NOT reflect the true love and Light of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.
they do NOT reflect God's love but only show what fleshly men's eyes can see.
For how is telling the world a lie, reflecting God's love and Truth?
No VW I can not agree with you on that statement. I do believe we should take care that our light and lives shine before men so that God might be glorified but like I said I look to my Lord to light my steps and show me the way to live life. not towards comparing myself to others to see if I measure up according to the standards of goodness of this world.
Obedience to Christ that is what I strive for.
This is the first song I learn as a baby christian at the start of my walk and it is still the one that sings in my heart when I feel down and in despair:
YouTube - ‪Step by Step - Rich Mullins‬‏
"Oh God you are my God and I will ever praise you..
I will seek you in the morning, and I will learn to walk in Your ways
Step by step you will lead me and I will follow you all my days...."
Sometimes God allows us to help care for the lives of others: children, friends, family, etc. But we should always remember they belong to God and cherish the time God allows us to spend together.
as for the hypocrites I do not concern myself with them except for be careful that I do not act in a manner that will make me among their number. For Jesus tells us that Satan likes to come as an angel of Light and his minions like to disguise themselves as preachers of righteousness.
The false religions do a better job at showing what works salvation is.
they do NOT reflect the true love and Light of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.
they do NOT reflect God's love but only show what fleshly men's eyes can see.
For how is telling the world a lie, reflecting God's love and Truth?
No VW I can not agree with you on that statement. I do believe we should take care that our light and lives shine before men so that God might be glorified but like I said I look to my Lord to light my steps and show me the way to live life. not towards comparing myself to others to see if I measure up according to the standards of goodness of this world.
Obedience to Christ that is what I strive for.
This is the first song I learn as a baby christian at the start of my walk and it is still the one that sings in my heart when I feel down and in despair:
YouTube - ‪Step by Step - Rich Mullins‬‏
"Oh God you are my God and I will ever praise you..
I will seek you in the morning, and I will learn to walk in Your ways
Step by step you will lead me and I will follow you all my days...."
Romans 8:14-17
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba, Father!" The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Ghrist, if indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.
Suffer with Him.
Suffer with Him.
Suffer with Him.
Or not, just rejoice and forget suffering altogether.
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba, Father!" The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Ghrist, if indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.
Suffer with Him.
Suffer with Him.
Suffer with Him.
Or not, just rejoice and forget suffering altogether.
Then this word is not for you.
I strive to be found in Christ in all that I do. That I be obedient to His voice, in all that He convicts me of. That includes posting words just as the one above.
I know that those others do not reflect the light of God. What foolishness is this. They do not have the light of God, how can they reflect it? But they are not hypocrites. The Muslim will and does give his life for his beliefs. The Hindu does actually live by what he believes. And many others.
Do christians live by the Holy Spirit? Do they reflect Jesus Christ in the world?
You answer.
I strive to be found in Christ in all that I do. That I be obedient to His voice, in all that He convicts me of. That includes posting words just as the one above.
I know that those others do not reflect the light of God. What foolishness is this. They do not have the light of God, how can they reflect it? But they are not hypocrites. The Muslim will and does give his life for his beliefs. The Hindu does actually live by what he believes. And many others.
Do christians live by the Holy Spirit? Do they reflect Jesus Christ in the world?
You answer.