Once saved always saved?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#61
Not one Christian in the audience, only Jews. Jewish living in the physical kingdom. This is not doctrine for the body of Christ.
Is there an Old Testament precedent for that doctrine being only for Jews? I mean, when were they told to just forgive others to get sin forgiveness?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,759
3,562
113
#62
Is there an Old Testament precedent for that doctrine being only for Jews? I mean, when were they told to just forgive others to get sin forgiveness?
Who's we? Who's the audience? Doctrine applies to the audience. Jesus was born and lived under the OT law. Paul, speaking to the body of Christ about God's righteousness through Jesus Christ, did not place the mandate of forgiving others for forgiveness of sins.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#63
Who's we? Who's the audience? Doctrine applies to the audience. Jesus was born and lived under the OT law. Paul, speaking to the body of Christ about God's righteousness through Jesus Christ, did not place the mandate of forgiving others for forgiveness of sins.
Then who does this apply to and is it required?

Ephesians 4:32
32Be kind and tenderhearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,759
3,562
113
#64
Then who does this apply to and is it required?

Ephesians 4:32
32Be kind and tenderhearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you.
Yes, we are to forgive one another, but our salvation and forgiveness of sins is contingent on it. Jesus is speaking to the Jews concerning kingdom living.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#65
FreeGrace2 said:
Do you realize that to "fully submit" requires effort on your part? Are you RCC? They believe that they must "cooperate" with God in their salvation. iow, Jesus does some things, and YOU must do certain things.

Do you believe that? It appears so. Change my mind.
No I'm not RC. But I fully submit. My life to Christ and put effort into walking with Christ every single day. I'll be honest somedays I fail miserably.. But we have a loving father.
Those who believe that they must submit in order to be saved, are not following the biblical way to be saved. It is all about trusting what Jesus did on the cross for them. When someone ADDS their own efforts to the deal, it's a NO DEAL.

All believers are commanded to submit. But believers are already saved.

I cooperate with God in my sanctification and so should all believers. But yet even that Co operation is a gift.
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?

But thats different from synergistic justification. I think you have it wards.. You want synergystic justification and monergistic sanctification.
No, I only want the truth. No one is saved by cooperating with God by their own efforts.

Justification is a one time act.. That is believe.. Have faith.
Correct.

Sanctification is an ongoing process that requires us to do good works that have already been prepared for us eph 2:10.
Correct.

Is it not one of your main arguments that's we are elected to serve. How do you serve if you don't submit?
You can't, obviously. But your previous comment implied that submission is required for salvation.

But to be clear works are not meritorious in contrast to the righteousness of faith.
I think you have it backwards. Works are the basis for our eternal rewards. God's crediting righteousness to us is a gift, which means it cannot be earned.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#66
good and honest take. salvation is not easy believism nor is it maintained by works.
Then how is one saved, if not by faith alone or maintained by works?
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#67
Why do you suppose the Lord called the ground of their heart…stony or rocky… NOT good ground?

The seed only is truly planted in good ground.

According to Jesus, plants grew in 3 of the 4 soils. That would indicate salvation. Living plants. However, 2 of the 3 living plants in the soils didn't mature. That speaks of failure to grow up spiritually, which is a real problem in today's churches.


The TRUE believers are good ground… they bring forth a harvest. The other grounds are NOT True Believers.
This would suggest that true believers WILL produce fruit, but the Bible does not teach this. In fact, the Bible commands believers to produce fruit. There are many failures among believers. They ARE saved, but failed to grow up in their salvation. 1 Pet 2:2 - Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#68
Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure?
The sole issue is this: do YOU believe Jesus when He said that recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN they believe, John 5:24) shall never perish?

Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him.
This is true, AND, Jesus gave NO exceptions in John 10:28 about recipients of eteranl life actually perishing, as you are claiming.

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.
Please read the WHOLE context. The "end" refers to the end of the Great Tribulation. Not your life, and NOT any other time frame.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#69
What does OSAS do with this passage? Just curious.

Matthew 6:14,15
14For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

According to Matthew 6:14,15, forgiveness of sins is conditional upon forgiving those who sin against you. Do people who don’t have their sins forgiven for not forgiving someone else go to heaven?

Honestly not trying to argue. Just would love to know how this fits into the scheme of things.
Basically the same thing as Psa 66:18 - If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

iow, failure to forgive others is a sin. And God doesn't forgive the sins that aren't confessed. 1 John 1:9.

So, as long as a believer doesn't forgive others, he/she remains out of fellowship with the Lord, is grieving/quenching the Holy Spirit and cannot grow up spiritually.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#71
I used to believe you can walk away and forfeit salvation, but Jesus speaks quite clearly about going out to find lost sheep, so maybe walking away isn’t possible once you’ve been saved.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
#72
Free Grace said:
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?
This one.

1 Cor 15:10 "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#73
Yes, we are to forgive one another, but our salvation and forgiveness of sins is contingent on it. Jesus is speaking to the Jews concerning kingdom living.
Ephesians 4:32 is written to practicing Christians:

Ephesians 1:1
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

It echos the same kind of command Jesus gave in Matt. 6:14,15

Matthew 6:14,15
14For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#74
Those who believe that they must submit in order to be saved, are not following the biblical way to be saved. It is all about trusting what Jesus did on the cross for them. When someone ADDS their own efforts to the deal, it's a NO DEAL.

Hi free grace, I think you need to re read my post.

Do you not submit to Jesus as your Lord🤔
Do you not serve your Lord and Master🤔

Do you not serve your brothers and sisters🤔


If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#75
Christ is Lord full stop. You either submit fully or your lost.
One can argue that faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. So if you’re not moving mountains then you’re not fully submitted, thus subsequently lost.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#76
I used to believe you can walk away and forfeit salvation, but Jesus speaks quite clearly about going out to find lost sheep, so maybe walking away isn’t possible once you’ve been saved.
Correct. Jesus was real clear in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

However, the "other side" of eternal security is God's painful discipline, per Heb 12:11. No one gets away with anything.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#77
One can argue that faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. So if you’re not moving mountains then you’re not fully submitted, thus subsequently lost.

One could argue that but one would be wrong.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#78
Free Grace said:
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?
This one.

1 Cor 15:10 "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
There is no mention of our cooperation being a gift. I do read that Paul's efforts were under the grace of God. What does that mean? It means the gift of the Holy Spirit is also a gift of God.

However, since Paul also commands believers to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, it should be obvious that believers may not produce fruit. But they are commanded to produce fruit.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#79
Hi free grace, I think you need to re read my post.

Do you not submit to Jesus as your Lord🤔
Do you not serve your Lord and Master🤔

Do you not serve your brothers and sisters🤔
Is this your imagination, or what? Where do you get your material.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#80
No I'm not RC. But I fully submit. My life to Christ and put effort into walking with Christ every single day. I'll be honest somedays I fail miserably.. But we have a loving father.
I’m not coming at you with daggers so forgive me if it seems like I’m doing so, but one minute you’re proclaiming you need to fully submit to Christ otherwise you’re lost, and the next minute you’re saying that you fail miserably yet you take comfort in God’s grace.