Should We Imitate the Catholic, Orthodox Saints and Protestant “Esteemed” Christians?

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ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#1

It is certain that and Christianity began long before Luther and did not spring up when He was a monk of the Catholic Church. It had existed for 1500 years before then. He may have corrected the completely ridiculous idea of selling indulgences. There is very much contained in the hearts and deeds of the saints of the historical church before Luther

We are told as protestants not to pray to the saints, that we ARE saints. Maybe so. But in the path of sanctification could we gain anything from these “Saints” without becoming alarmed that we will be corrupted and are convinced we are not loyal to Luther and Protestantism? Could we be convinced that the most important thing is loyalty to the One God (Father, Son and Spirit)? Could we learn to Love our God more and to Love our brothers and sisters (any everyone else too!) as we imitate the saints?

From my reading of the Saints is very evident there is a lot to be gained from reading what the saints have written. For example, the two big commandments: Love God and love others as ourselves in the writings of the saints. We can even read what the saints in the scripture DID. (Don’t loose focus here, I am not saying that DOING the right thing saves you, and I am not saying you should pray to the saints).

The word of God is written on my heart, and I trust Him to keep me from error, so I am unafraid of reading the saints writings and the writings of Christians from other denominations and have found them to be worth imitating.

In my readings there are several Catholic, Orthodox Saints, and Protestant authors (of different denominations) that have written about their love of God and of Others that are worth imitating:



Catholic Church

St. John of the Cross

John of the Cross is considered one of the foremost poets in Spanish. Although his complete poems add up to fewer than 2500 verses, two of them, the Spiritual Canticle and the Dark Night of the Soul, are widely considered masterpieces of Spanish poetry, both for their formal style and their rich symbolism and imagery.

From reading his poetry you can gather he was complete lost in the love for God and he pointed many and counselled many on to develop a loving relationship to God.

St. Therese Of Lisieux

She is popularly known as “The Little Flower of Jesus” or simply “The Little Flower”. Thérèse has been a highly influential model of sanctity for Catholics and for others because of the simplicity and practicality of her approach to the spiritual life. Known for the little way: Instead of focusing on large actions, we should bring God into our smallest ones. St. Thérèse even wrote about how much care she put into folding napkins at the dinner table. She completed the task with as much love and attention as if Jesus Himself was coming to dine with her.



St. Therese of Avila

Teresa was a woman “for God,” a woman of prayer, discipline, and compassion. Her heart belonged to God. Her ongoing conversion was an arduous lifelong struggle, involving ongoing purification and suffering. She was misunderstood, misjudged, and opposed in her efforts at reform. Yet she struggled on, courageous and faithful; she struggled with her own mediocrity, her illness, her opposition. And in the midst of all this she clung to God in life and in prayer. Her writings on prayer and contemplation are drawn from her experience: powerful, practical, and graceful. She was a woman of prayer; a woman for God. While I was beseeching Our Lord today...I began to think of the soul as if it were a castle made of a single diamond or of very clear crystal, in which there are many rooms, just as in Heaven there are many mansions. — St. Teresa of Avila
A masterpiece of spiritual literature, this sixteenth-century work was inspired by a mystical vision that came upon the revered St. Teresa of Avila, one of the most gifted and beloved religious figures in history. St. Teresa's vision was of a luminous crystal castle composed of seven chambers, or "mansions," each representing a different stage in the development of the soul.
In her most important and widely read book, St. Teresa describes how, upon entering the castle through prayer and meditation, the human spirit experiences humility, detachment, suffering, and, ultimately, self-knowledge, as it roams from room to room. As the soul progresses further toward the center of the castle, it comes closer to achieving ineffable and perfect peace, and, finally, a divine communion with God.
A set of rare and beautiful teachings for people of all faiths desirous of divine guidance.





Orthodox Church

St. John Maximovich,



Bishop of San Francisco (d. 1966). The book “John the Wonderworker“documents 100 miracles through John’s prayers and actions, showing his great love for people and close relationship with God. He rescued about 1500 orphans from Shanghai and brought them to San Francisco in the early 50’s.



St. Herman of Alaska



Wonderworker of all America (d. 1837). Converted thousands of Aleuts, built many churches. Asked his congregation “Should we not love God above everything, desire Him more than anything, and search Him out, the Very Lord, our Jesus Christ, who created us, adorned us with such ideals, gave life to all, sustains everything, nurtures and loves all, who is Himself Love and most beautiful of all men?” ‘Certainly, we love God’, they all answered. “And I a sinner,” he answered, “have been trying for more than forty years to love God, yet I cannot say that I love Him completely. Let us at least promise ourselves that from this very minute we will try to love God more than anything and to fulfill His holy commandments”.









Esteemed Protestants (different denominations)

James Haddon Spurgeon

As I read Spurgeon’s works, I was struck with the realization that he loved God. God was real to him and not just a theory. The work I remember the most was The Secret to the love of God. In his works he says we should love God and not be ashamed to say we love God.

Elisabeth Elliot

She was one of the most inspiring Christian women of the 20th century. Elisabeth Elliot was a Christian author and speaker. Her first husband, Jim Elliot, was killed in 1956 while attempting to make missionary contact with the Auca people of eastern Ecuador. She later spent two years as a missionary to the tribe members who killed her husband. She emphasized commitment to God, doing his will whatever it costs, and being owned by Him. I remember her saying “Don’t say you love God, show me!” She is a hero to me.



Dr. R. C. Sproul

I owe a lot to Dr. R. C. Sproul. His thoughtful and logical presentation of many, many Christian topics and discussions have helped me greatly. He has written a vast number of books. Ligonier’s Ligoinier Connect allows you to play streaming video presentations many authors including himself

He is known for emphasis on Holiness, consciousness that we are Living before the face of God. Founder of Ligonier which now features many scholarly and imitable men of God.



C. S. Louis

Clive Staples Lewis (1898–1963) was one of the intellectual giants of the twentieth century and arguably one of the most influential writers of his day. He was a Fellow and Tutor in English Literature at Oxford University until 1954, when he was unanimously elected to the Chair of Medieval and Renaissance Literature at Cambridge University, a position he held until his retirement.

Lewis wrote more than thirty books, allowing him to reach a vast audience, and his works continue to attract thousands of new readers every year. C. S. Lewis’s most distinguished and popular accomplishments include Mere Christianity, Out of the Silent Planet, The Great Divorce, The Screwtape Letters, and the universally acknowledged classics in The Chronicles of Narnia. To date, the Narnia books have sold over 100 million copies and been transformed into three major motion pictures.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
4,066
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#2
If you're coming here pushing Catholic ideas be ready for a fight.
If the sauts you're reading about are just rehashing the bible, then what are you learning from them?
For me, Catholicism is wrong (as is the sites official stance and that of many users here) so spending time reading books by people They sainted would not be something I'd be interested it. If I am going to read a book by someone it's going to be because I value what they say, not because a false religion elevated them.
And if Catholic saints are pushing Catholic values and ideas then I've no interest in reading them.
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#3
Please point me to the site policy that forbids “Catholic ideas”

There can be Catholics that truly love God as individuals.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
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#4
To answer the thread title: No.

Please point me to the site policy that forbids “Catholic ideas”

There can be Catholics that truly love God as individuals.
He didn't say it was against the rules. He said you gonna get a lot of flak if you try it.

You're free to preach anything you want here, as long as it doesn't break one of the posted rules. But some things are going to draw a lot more argument and criticism than others.

You're still free to say it though, if you think you can take the flak it will cause. :eek::sneaky:
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#5
There are probably things I have to say, because its right to say, even if it causes flak. But I don't want to say things just to get flak.

Its right to say there are some very Godly Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestant denomination people out there. Its not right to rage against an individual because they belong to a particular strain of Christianity.

If you read the Saints I am pointing out you find that they indeed loved God. I take the good and spit out the bones. I have the word of God written in me and I have His spirit....I'm not afraid of being corrupted, or feel I have to rage against anyones particular flavor of Christianity.
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#6
To answer the thread title: No.


He didn't say it was against the rules. He said you gonna get a lot of flak if you try it.

You're free to preach anything you want here, as long as it doesn't break one of the posted rules. But some things are going to draw a lot more argument and criticism than others.

You're still free to say it though, if you think you can take the flak it will cause. :eek::sneaky:
I just love the moniker at the end "Yes I sing at church, and I sing at work,....definitely a spirit of praise (all the time) is what I want to have too!
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#7
There are probably things I have to say, because its right to say, even if it causes flak. But I don't want to say things just to get flak.

Its right to say there are some very Godly Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestant denomination people out there. Its not right to rage against an individual because they belong to a particular strain of Christianity.

If you read the Saints I am pointing out you find that they indeed loved God. I take the good and spit out the bones. I have the word of God written in me and I have His spirit....I'm not afraid of being corrupted, or feel I have to rage against anyones particular flavor of Christianity.
Personally, I agree with you. I like the idea of taking the good and spitting the bones out, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I think all of the denominations have something good. That doesn’t mean I 100% or even 1% agree with all they say or do, but they have something that can help the body of Christ.

Sometimes it may be individuals who were/are particularly godly, a doctrine that is accurate, a practice that is good for the church, etc.

People get into kind of a mindset where if you praise anything about Catholics or other non-Protestant groups then it’s tantamount to praising the devil, thus drawing the ire and suspicion of many.

Don’t forget about the witch hunts of days of yore. That mentality still hasn’t completely faded away.
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
976
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#8
Personally, I agree with you. I like the idea of taking the good and spitting the bones out, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I think all of the denominations have something good. That doesn’t mean I 100% or even 1% agree with all they say or do, but they have something that can help the body of Christ.

Sometimes it may be individuals who were/are particularly godly, a doctrine that is accurate, a practice that is good for the church, etc.

People get into kind of a mindset where if you praise anything about Catholics or other non-Protestant groups then it’s tantamount to praising the devil, thus drawing the ire and suspicion of many.

Don’t forget about the witch hunts of days of yore. That mentality still hasn’t completely faded away.
Personally, I agree with you. I like the idea of taking the good and spitting the bones out, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I think all of the denominations have something good. That doesn’t mean I 100% or even 1% agree with all they say or do, but they have something that can help the body of Christ.

Sometimes it may be individuals who were/are particularly godly, a doctrine that is accurate, a practice that is good for the church, etc.

People get into kind of a mindset where if you praise anything about Catholics or other non-Protestant groups then it’s tantamount to praising the devil, thus drawing the ire and suspicion of many.

Don’t forget about the witch hunts of days of yore. That mentality still hasn’t completely faded away.
I am just looking at the individuals and have an idea by what they say or write if they love God. People that love God say things in a certain way. But, i am not infalible in that!

Thanks, I guess I am not alone after all! But if I have to be I will. Its part of our calling to say what is right and to do whats right.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#9
Thanks, I guess I am not alone after all! But if I have to be I will. Its part of our calling to say what is right and to do whats right.
Absolutely. Saying and doing what is right if often a lonely path compared to the beaten path taken by those who say and do what they want to be right. There is a difference, but it takes discernment. Just keep spitting those bones out and you’ll be fine.
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#10
Good way to put it… distinction between saying it because its right and saying it because you want to be right. Has to done with the proper attitude.
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#11
If you're coming here pushing Catholic ideas be ready for a fight.
If the sauts you're reading about are just rehashing the bible, then what are you learning from them?
For me, Catholicism is wrong (as is the sites official stance and that of many users here) so spending time reading books by people They sainted would not be something I'd be interested it. If I am going to read a book by someone it's going to be because I value what they say, not because a false religion elevated them.
And if Catholic saints are pushing Catholic values and ideas then I've no interest in reading them.

Orthodox St Hermon of Akaska modified slightly by me, what he says is good for me!

Should we not love God above everything, desire Him more than anything, and search Him out, the Very Lord, our Jesus Christ, who created us, adorned us with such ideals, gave life to all, sustains everything, nurtures and loves all, who is Himself Love and most beautiful of all men?” ‘Certainly, we love God’, ……..“And I cannot say that I love Him completely. Let us at least promise ourselves that from this very minute we will try to love God more than anything and to fulfill His holy commandments”.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#12
Although all denominations which are under the umbrella called Christianity disagree in doctrine on various points, yet they all claim to believe the Bible is the Word of God, they are all missing the mark, not teaching the Word in Spirit and Truth.

Notwithstanding there are many believers, children of God in most of these misguided denominations, perhaps within all of them. These believers are temporarily deceived, but our Father will call them out of her in His time. Until then be content with following Jesus Yeshua by means of the Holy Spirit. No one man commands all of this resource except our Savior, hwoever these resources contain more than sufficient to remove all deceit.

In these times it is imperative that all who claim the Lord, Jesus Yeshua, adhere to Him only and pray for the valor of God to get us all through, for all is to His glory.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#13
Yes we should live like them and imitate them.

They were imitating Christ which is the goal of life. Our Church honors and respects all saints because they gave up all their earthly things to love God while suffering and dying most of the time.

Living like Christ is not easy because you have to give up your ego, which is a very very difficult thing to do for most people and then give up your body in terms of food deprivation and physical hardship which is also difficult to do.

Very few people in this forum show a Christ-like radiance and are like these saints.
@CharliRenee is one of them.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#14
Please point me to the site policy that forbids “Catholic ideas”
It's not "against the law" to post Catholic ideas here. But the official policy of this forum is Catholicism is heresy. I think what Subhumanoid was getting at is that criticism of Catholicism is permitted and you will get pushback from other members.

See this: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/catholic-heresy-for-the-record.41911/

I assume by: "It [the church] had existed for 1500 years before then" you mean the Catholic church. I don't recognize the Catholic church as a true Christian church, so anything you have to say pretty much ends right there for me.

If someone belongs to a heretical sect they might be true part of the time but still false the rest of the time. If I quote them, or encourage others to listen to them, I'm leading them down a crooked road.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#15
I too respect the traditional Saints, like say, Great Theologian, St. Augustine, Great Missionary St. Patrick (who won millions to Christ and Baptism), etc. I also respect Great modern missionaries/Pastors from all denominations, like especially Reinhard Bonnke (for winning millions to Christ -Pentecostal Pastor), Rick Warren(for reverse tithing 90%, being so focused on finishing Great Commission, by 2030/2033 if possible), Billy Graham (for being a great Evangelist, faithful steward who did the Lord's Work, promoted Christian Unity, and reached millions for the Gospel) and others like them.

We become like those who we respect, those who we strive to imitate. The Bible speaks of honoring those who fear the Lord as a good thing. It also commends those who have love for the Saints, or for saintly Christians who did Great Things for God's Glory. I'm on my phone now, so citations later if asked. GOD bless.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#16
Another thing I’ve found amazing from these saints is that once they‘ve let go of their ego and truly follow Christ, the physical hardship is basically a breeze.

When Jesus was tempted by food by the Devil He said that ”Man will not live by food alone”

So scientifically speaking is simply amazing to me that these saints that live on a loaf of bread a day or nothing for a few days, don’t have any ulcers or other diseases. They are more healthy than us.

It’s truly amazing !
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#17
Please point me to the site policy that forbids “Catholic ideas”

There can be Catholics that truly love God as individuals.
As an ex catholic i am thankful for the day when a friend gave me a Bible to read and i read it and became a Christian.. I thank God he moved me out of that catholic religon and caused me to know the truth that set me free from bondage deception that is the works salvation catholic religon..

And yes it is against this site to push catholic dogma on here..
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#18
There can be Catholics that truly love God as individuals.
Yes, there are a lot of Catholics who say they love God and Jesus. But the question is: Which God, and which Jesus? It's not enough to say you love Jesus; a lot of people say they love Jesus. You have to love the true Jesus, not a wafer Jesus.

"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." Romans 10:2
 

ebdesroches

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2022
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#19
As an ex catholic i am thankful for the day when a friend gave me a Bible to read and i read it and became a Christian.. I thank God he moved me out of that catholic religon and caused me to know the truth that set me free from bondage deception that is the works salvation catholic religon..

And yes it is against this site to push catholic dogma on here..
A
Yes, there are a lot of Catholics who say they love God and Jesus. But the question is: Which God, and which Jesus? It's not enough to say you love Jesus; a lot of people say they love Jesus. You have to love the true Jesus, not a wafer Jesus.

"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." Romans 10:2
Its not hard to know what Jesus they worship, at least in the formal documents. The fundamentals of the Catholic faith is based on the same thing likely as you believe.

If you heard Bishop Robert Barron you would think he was an undercover protestant. Check it out on youtube. Can you find some of his sermons you would disagree with? Of course...retain the good, spit out the bad.

I am seeing the church as much larger and has more believers that are lovers of God. I am seeing that no matter where you look you can't find the perfect church that believes everything 100 percent correctly. . Thats because we see things through a glass darkly. I am seeing that the Christian church did not begin with Luther, it has a history! I want to welcome and love my brothers and sisters....all of them.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
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#20
The answer is an unequivocal yes, we should imitate esteemed Christians from the past, saints or what ever you prefer to call them.

Scripture tells us to do so. The apostle Paul wrote in the book of 1 Corinthians 4:16 calling the Corinthian believers to be followers or imitator of him. Again Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:1 saying, “imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ”

Of course, the main reason we should imitate the holy ones who came before us is that they all became holy/saintly by imitating Christ. It is Christ, first and foremost, whom they help us imitate, by showing how a life centered on Christ is possible anywhere in the world at any time in history.