The 'good old days' of well-loved hymns are gone? What's your take on this?

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M

MalcolmP

New member
#1
Oct 3, 2022
20
11
3
#1
Hi All
I grew up in a Baptist church playing the piano for traditional hymns, mostly (around 1970s - 1980s). I owe this experience to my musical skill development and confidence. However, as I got into secular gigs (I was forced to do this to pay off debts) I found myself using more secular styles of playing, but I had the insight to always keep my playing as 'clean' as possible, staying close to the original chord structures in the hymns. So then I stopped playing in church because I went overseas (Asia) and played pro mostly, at hotels etc. Fast forward to contemporary church 'worship' music today, and I believe that the original essence of what is needed to create an atmosphere of worship is lost in many ways. Today's mega-churches have mega-bands/dancers/lighting etc not much unlike regular pop concerts. Although I haven't had the opportunity to play regularly in a long while, I still miss those classic hymns accompanied by a solo piano. Sorry for sounding like I'm venting! I probably am! Over to you guys....
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
29,581
113
#2
Some people complain about modern praise and worship, saying it is too cloying and meant to
stir up the emotions etc which is kind of the opposite of what you are saying. Or even that is is
lacking in doctrine which I find kind of funny/peculiar because one does not need to recite
doctrine in sing-song to praise and/or worship God. People have different tastes and varying
reasons for what they prefer. You like the old-time hymns, and some do not care for them as much
as other forms of worship. Is there not room enough in this world and in the family of God for both?
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#3
Jul 7, 2022
10,300
4,349
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#3
Hi Malcom,

I see that you are a new member. Welcome aboard.

I like the old hymns too.
Here's a list of songs posted by some Baptist churches that you might enjoy. If you want any more, I have a few good YouTube channels bookmarked that I can share the links to. They are mostly congregationals and solos. There's over a hundred selections for piano and one good orchestral from a christian school that is exceptionally talented.
Bookmark:
https://www.allthepreaching.com

It's a huge website, so I would go to the menu. Then scroll down to the very bottom and you will see "Music."
There's lots of good preaching too if you like Independent Baptist preaching. The section labeled "Other" has a variety posted according to topics. The other sections are by preachers. Let me know if you have any questions.
Have a great day!

☕🙂👍
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#4
Sep 17, 2018
4,061
3,175
113
#4
Really I always found most forms of mainstream accepted worship uninteresting. Whether modern or hymns.
To me it's all bland and uninspired.
I grew up going to Baptist churches and found trying to sing along to outdated versions of English, while distracted by a flurry of musical notes above to bland organ/piano too difficult to focus on What I was singing. And the overall sound not too pleasant.
But neither am I a fan of modern pop worship. I find the music trite and uninspired and cheesy.
I find when it comes to Christians and music creativity is a bit of a forbidden fruit. Playing what is deemed safe is what's accepted and expected.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#5
#5
Subhumanoidal said:
Really I always found most forms of mainstream accepted worship uninteresting. Whether modern or hymns.
To me it's all bland and uninspired.
I grew up going to Baptist churches and found trying to sing along to outdated versions of English, while distracted by a flurry of musical notes above to bland organ/piano too difficult to focus on What I was singing. And the overall sound not too pleasant.
But neither am I a fan of modern pop worship. I find the music trite and uninspired and cheesy.
I find when it comes to Christians and music creativity is a bit of a forbidden fruit. Playing what is deemed safe is what's accepted and expected.
Click to expand...
19th century phenom Charles Spurgeon was reluctant to have music at 'worship'. Maybe it interfered with his preaching? Sounds like you see it that way too?
 
A

Amanuensis

Well-known member
#6
Jun 12, 2021
1,457
460
83
#6
I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are being used by modern worship ministers to write and produce better Hymns today.

I find the lyrics better than many of the old Hymns that some claim are deeper. I did a comparison and found that to not be true at all. The older Hymns are often light and fluffy or trying too hard to be poetic and not really communicating doctrine as they claim they were.

I found that there is a sincere and intense reality of the Spirit Filled songs coming out of the Spirit Filled Churches that have that sense of the Spirit of God behind them and that the old Hymns just don't cut it, unless you redo them with some new expression and change the lyrics to communicate a clearer doctrine as they often don't do that great a job.

We do sing old hymns but we have made them more "singable" and given them a touch of intimacy. To express your love for the Lord in sincerity and truth comes across more real with the modern hymns than with the older ones played in a religious tone where people sing it like zombies with no feeling.

That's my take on it.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#7
Jul 7, 2022
10,300
4,349
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#7
Everybody was raised differently and exposed to various music styles. Some songs are very Scriptural and full of doctrine. Others are more emotive.
Malcolm likes traditional hymns and I respect that. I do too and always will. Not ALL of them, but many of them. I can read lyrics and determine easily the complexity and content of a song because I sang all of my life. I've read hundreds of songs and still don't consider myself expert. Others here are likewise experienced more or less.

There are other styles of Christian music that I was into that my former pastor did not. I liked some of the classical music, like Bach. I don't know how much it bothered him, but it didn't bother me that he didn't like Bach or that he thought it sinful. He couldn't show me from the Bible, so whatever.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#8
Jun 24, 2020
1,610
807
113
#8
Amanuensis said:
I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are being used by modern worship ministers to write and produce better Hymns today.

I find the lyrics better than many of the old Hymns that some claim are deeper. I did a comparison and found that to not be true at all. The older Hymns are often light and fluffy or trying too hard to be poetic and not really communicating doctrine as they claim they were.

I found that there is a sincere and intense reality of the Spirit Filled songs coming out of the Spirit Filled Churches that have that sense of the Spirit of God behind them and that the old Hymns just don't cut it, unless you redo them with some new expression and change the lyrics to communicate a clearer doctrine as they often don't do that great a job.

We do sing old hymns but we have made them more "singable" and given them a touch of intimacy. To express your love for the Lord in sincerity and truth comes across more real with the modern hymns than with the older ones played in a religious tone where people sing it like zombies with no feeling.

That's my take on it.
Click to expand...
One line of a contemporary worship piece, played in soft-rock style with a strong drum line is: "I AM WHO I AM BECAUSE THE I AM TELLS ME WHO I AM" repeated 9 or 10 times. Catchy, but not my style. Gimme "It is WELL with my soul" any day.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#9
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#9
MalcolmP said:
Hi All
I grew up in a Baptist church playing the piano for traditional hymns, mostly (around 1970s - 1980s). I owe this experience to my musical skill development and confidence. However, as I got into secular gigs (I was forced to do this to pay off debts) I found myself using more secular styles of playing, but I had the insight to always keep my playing as 'clean' as possible, staying close to the original chord structures in the hymns. So then I stopped playing in church because I went overseas (Asia) and played pro mostly, at hotels etc. Fast forward to contemporary church 'worship' music today, and I believe that the original essence of what is needed to create an atmosphere of worship is lost in many ways. Today's mega-churches have mega-bands/dancers/lighting etc not much unlike regular pop concerts. Although I haven't had the opportunity to play regularly in a long while, I still miss those classic hymns accompanied by a solo piano. Sorry for sounding like I'm venting! I probably am! Over to you guys....
Click to expand...
When I went overseas (Asia) I met someone who had gone there for that reason, too. He moved there from Ukraine and played guitar in a band. I didn't realize that was a thing.

As far as the hymns go, I like old hymns just fine, but I also like the kind of music from my generation and I'm 36. I think people just tend to prefer the music they're raised with most of the time. By the time I was listening to Christian music, I believe I recall DC Talk, Toby Mac, and Newsboys. There may be others I'm not thinking of.
 
M

MalcolmP

New member
#12
Oct 3, 2022
20
11
3
#12
Magenta said:
Some people complain about modern praise and worship, saying it is too cloying and meant to
stir up the emotions etc which is kind of the opposite of what you are saying. Or even that is is
lacking in doctrine which I find kind of funny/peculiar because one does not need to recite
doctrine in sing-song to praise and/or worship God. People have different tastes and varying
reasons for what they prefer. You like the old-time hymns, and some do not care for them as much
as other forms of worship. Is there not room enough in this world and in the family of God for both?
Click to expand...
I totally agree, but what I didn't mention clearly enough in my original post is that a lot of the 'cool' church worship 'bands' use this stage (literally and figuratively) as a platform to show off their chops i.e. who can play the fastest using 'off-chords' and strange-sounding derivatives of the root chord they were supposed to play in the first place. I totally get this because when I used to play solo piano every day at hotels, I tried to find as many different ways of playing standard lobby muzak mostly to overcome my boredom! However, I think there's a big difference between improvising naturally and trying to consciously/deliberately come up with weird chords to show that you have 'the chops!'. On this note - pun intended - playing 'in the spirit' during worship is totally natural, but when this is done as the spirit leads, I believe that the result will be more tonal than atonal.
 
M

MalcolmP

New member
#13
Oct 3, 2022
20
11
3
#13
HealthAndHappiness said:
Everybody was raised differently and exposed to various music styles. Some songs are very Scriptural and full of doctrine. Others are more emotive.
Malcolm likes traditional hymns and I respect that. I do too and always will. Not ALL of them, but many of them. I can read lyrics and determine easily the complexity and content of a song because I sang all of my life. I've read hundreds of songs and still don't consider myself expert. Others here are likewise experienced more or less.

There are other styles of Christian music that I was into that my former pastor did not. I liked some of the classical music, like Bach. I don't know how much it bothered him, but it didn't bother me that he didn't like Bach or that he thought it sinful. He couldn't show me from the Bible, so whatever.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get you! Actually, as I am replying to responses to my original post, I just came up with this : What will music in Heaven really sound like? I'm sure it'll be like nothing we construe as earthly music!
 
M

MalcolmP

New member
#14
Oct 3, 2022
20
11
3
#14
Amanuensis said:
I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are being used by modern worship ministers to write and produce better Hymns today.

I find the lyrics better than many of the old Hymns that some claim are deeper. I did a comparison and found that to not be true at all. The older Hymns are often light and fluffy or trying too hard to be poetic and not really communicating doctrine as they claim they were.

I found that there is a sincere and intense reality of the Spirit Filled songs coming out of the Spirit Filled Churches that have that sense of the Spirit of God behind them and that the old Hymns just don't cut it, unless you redo them with some new expression and change the lyrics to communicate a clearer doctrine as they often don't do that great a job.

We do sing old hymns but we have made them more "singable" and given them a touch of intimacy. To express your love for the Lord in sincerity and truth comes across more real with the modern hymns than with the older ones played in a religious tone where people sing it like zombies with no feeling.

That's my take on it.
Click to expand...
Yes, I suppose there are elements of both simplicity and complexity in traditional as well as contemporary hymns/worship songs. I guess I decided to post my thoughts on this based on the fact that there are more 'tuneful' traditional hymns than contemporary worship songs. I was thinking more along the lines of the melodies than the lyrics, to be honest.
 
M

MalcolmP

New member
#15
Oct 3, 2022
20
11
3
#15
persistent said:
19th century phenom Charles Spurgeon was reluctant to have music at 'worship'. Maybe it interfered with his preaching? Sounds like you see it that way too?
Click to expand...
Let me raise this : What will music in Heaven sound like?
 
M

MalcolmP

New member
#16
Oct 3, 2022
20
11
3
#16
HealthAndHappiness said:
Hi Malcom,

I see that you are a new member. Welcome aboard.

I like the old hymns too.
Here's a list of songs posted by some Baptist churches that you might enjoy. If you want any more, I have a few good YouTube channels bookmarked that I can share the links to. They are mostly congregationals and solos. There's over a hundred selections for piano and one good orchestral from a christian school that is exceptionally talented.
Bookmark:
https://www.allthepreaching.com

It's a huge website, so I would go to the menu. Then scroll down to the very bottom and you will see "Music."
There's lots of good preaching too if you like Independent Baptist preaching. The section labeled "Other" has a variety posted according to topics. The other sections are by preachers. Let me know if you have any questions.
Have a great day!

☕🙂👍
Click to expand...
Hi H&H! Thanks for the warm welcome! I'll definitely have a look at the link! Stay blessed!
 
P

persistent

Guest
#18
#18
MalcolmP said:
Let me raise this : What will music in Heaven sound like?
Click to expand...
I never gave it much thought. But I did come across a site where it was claimed that at this time there is no music in Heaven. I don't recall the reasoning or the site. Now I get the sense from the Scriptures that some of you musicians first performance will be in The New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven.
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Banned
#20
Sep 15, 2019
9,991
5,546
113
#20
MalcolmP said:
Hi All
I grew up in a Baptist church playing the piano for traditional hymns, mostly (around 1970s - 1980s). I owe this experience to my musical skill development and confidence. However, as I got into secular gigs (I was forced to do this to pay off debts) I found myself using more secular styles of playing, but I had the insight to always keep my playing as 'clean' as possible, staying close to the original chord structures in the hymns. So then I stopped playing in church because I went overseas (Asia) and played pro mostly, at hotels etc. Fast forward to contemporary church 'worship' music today, and I believe that the original essence of what is needed to create an atmosphere of worship is lost in many ways. Today's mega-churches have mega-bands/dancers/lighting etc not much unlike regular pop concerts. Although I haven't had the opportunity to play regularly in a long while, I still miss those classic hymns accompanied by a solo piano. Sorry for sounding like I'm venting! I probably am! Over to you guys....
Click to expand...
Yeah. I agree. You're not venting. A lot of modern music does not properly worship God. Either through the words, or through the music itself.

There are some good modern Christian hymns/music, but these are vastly outweighed by inferior music. The solution, in my opinion, is to discard what is bad, and keep what is good. Let the world sing the songs that could be sung about Allah, or Budda, or by a lover to his beloved. Let the world keep the music that doesn't give God the respect He deserves. Christian music for worshiping God should be different (i.e. holy or set apart), and is different, and always will be different. All you are seeing at the moment is the Church becoming polluted with the world. Music is not the only example, but it is a significant part.
 
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