Is The New Apostolic Reformation Heretical?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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What do you mean exactly by "2nd Great Awakening?" Do you mean the 2nd wave of the modern Charismatic movement?
What is your source for the image, and what is its source for the summary statements about the "gospels" allegedly "seen"?
Or to put it more bluntly, who is making these claims?
I don't care for the NOLR or the NAR.
Years ago, after understanding that the church needed all of the 5-fold ministry functioning today, I spent 8 years of looking for someone with an apostolic grace. I found one. In my youth I required evidence.
1. I was not interested in those who primarily promoted themselves as an apostle. There were many of those kinds.
2. I was not interested in congregations that promoted their group as "apostolic". A true apostle would not divide the body of Christ by congregations or giftings. The scriptures only permit a distinction by location.
3. I was not interested in those who sold their "revelations from God" for profit. A true apostle knows that what he receives from God is freely given and thus should be freely given to others.
4. His ministry should be accompanied by power. And the record of said power should be known by many.
5. He should be humble and have suffered much.
6. He should be approachable and he should be willing to be examined by anyone.
So, an acquaintance connected me with such a man. After some correspondence he connected me with two others. I invited those two to our house (they had to fly to where we lived). They came bearing gifts and they asked nothing in return for their time with us. One laid hands on my wife and confirmed the prophetic gift in her. She began to prophesy three days later. He also laid his hand on my side and prayed for healing (he did not know that I had had pain in that side for 18 months) he also spoke that "I would not die young" which was a fear of mine after my grandmother passed away from cancer. There was no way he could have known that. My side began to itch shortly after and was healed completely.
I arranged to meet the man who sent them. He offered to pay for our plane tickets. He put my wife and I up in his house. I asked him questions for days. My wife was the most aggressive in her questions. He answered every one of them and took time to be thorough. He even spoke into my wife's life freeing her from a mindset that she struggled with. There was no way he could have known details about us unless the Lord revealed them to him. If we went to a restaurant he paid. His wife was a lovely woman, too. They gave us all of their time.
Today, we (my wife and I) have walked closely with that man for many years, now. Early on, when we were learning to be godly spouses, we called him often. He would help us see the Lord in our circumstance and the direction He was leading us: often simply confirming what we already saw. Through our relationship to him we've grown in confidence in the Lord and in His provision. He, our spiritual father, shows us the Father in Heaven. Our house is a place of peace and good order that displays the characteristics of the Loving Father.
God is building His house but it's not getting done with three points and a poem on Sundays. It's getting done within relationships between fathers and sons in the Lord: like Paul with Timothy or Paul with Titus, like Jesus with the 11; like John with his children in the Lord and Peter with his children in the Lord. This is the pattern to which we are all reconciled in Christ: God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. God the Father is bringing us back to the original standard He intended for man: that we should walk as sons of God.
Be Blessed
Years ago, after understanding that the church needed all of the 5-fold ministry functioning today, I spent 8 years of looking for someone with an apostolic grace. I found one. In my youth I required evidence.
1. I was not interested in those who primarily promoted themselves as an apostle. There were many of those kinds.
2. I was not interested in congregations that promoted their group as "apostolic". A true apostle would not divide the body of Christ by congregations or giftings. The scriptures only permit a distinction by location.
3. I was not interested in those who sold their "revelations from God" for profit. A true apostle knows that what he receives from God is freely given and thus should be freely given to others.
4. His ministry should be accompanied by power. And the record of said power should be known by many.
5. He should be humble and have suffered much.
6. He should be approachable and he should be willing to be examined by anyone.
So, an acquaintance connected me with such a man. After some correspondence he connected me with two others. I invited those two to our house (they had to fly to where we lived). They came bearing gifts and they asked nothing in return for their time with us. One laid hands on my wife and confirmed the prophetic gift in her. She began to prophesy three days later. He also laid his hand on my side and prayed for healing (he did not know that I had had pain in that side for 18 months) he also spoke that "I would not die young" which was a fear of mine after my grandmother passed away from cancer. There was no way he could have known that. My side began to itch shortly after and was healed completely.
I arranged to meet the man who sent them. He offered to pay for our plane tickets. He put my wife and I up in his house. I asked him questions for days. My wife was the most aggressive in her questions. He answered every one of them and took time to be thorough. He even spoke into my wife's life freeing her from a mindset that she struggled with. There was no way he could have known details about us unless the Lord revealed them to him. If we went to a restaurant he paid. His wife was a lovely woman, too. They gave us all of their time.
Today, we (my wife and I) have walked closely with that man for many years, now. Early on, when we were learning to be godly spouses, we called him often. He would help us see the Lord in our circumstance and the direction He was leading us: often simply confirming what we already saw. Through our relationship to him we've grown in confidence in the Lord and in His provision. He, our spiritual father, shows us the Father in Heaven. Our house is a place of peace and good order that displays the characteristics of the Loving Father.
God is building His house but it's not getting done with three points and a poem on Sundays. It's getting done within relationships between fathers and sons in the Lord: like Paul with Timothy or Paul with Titus, like Jesus with the 11; like John with his children in the Lord and Peter with his children in the Lord. This is the pattern to which we are all reconciled in Christ: God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. God the Father is bringing us back to the original standard He intended for man: that we should walk as sons of God.
Be Blessed
I support the NAR's emphasis on Signs and Wonders. Essentially, the author of that image is arguing for Cessationism, the idea that Signs and Wonders (Healings, Miracles etc) have ceased, at least since the Apostolic age, and allegedly are no longer fitting or necessary, which imo contradicts the Bible. The Lord said in Mark 16: "
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."
And He gave no time limit for this. Therefore, Healings, Exorcisms, Miracles, Signs and Wonders etc will always exist till Christ returns at the end of time. In fact, in the Book of Revelation, it says miracles will be worked by true prophets against the anti-christ. Imo, that's a crystal clear disproof of Cessationism. Cessationism was first proposed by John Calvin.
See here for the source: "Cessationism versus continuationism involves a Christian theological dispute as to whether spiritual gifts remain available to the church, or whether their operation ceased with the Apostolic Age of the church (or soon thereafter). The cessationist doctrine arose in the Reformed theology, initially in response to claims of Roman Catholic miracles. Modern discussions focus more on the use of spiritual gifts in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, though this emphasis has been taught in traditions that arose earlier, such as Methodism."
Taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism
God Bless.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."
And He gave no time limit for this. Therefore, Healings, Exorcisms, Miracles, Signs and Wonders etc will always exist till Christ returns at the end of time. In fact, in the Book of Revelation, it says miracles will be worked by true prophets against the anti-christ. Imo, that's a crystal clear disproof of Cessationism. Cessationism was first proposed by John Calvin.
See here for the source: "Cessationism versus continuationism involves a Christian theological dispute as to whether spiritual gifts remain available to the church, or whether their operation ceased with the Apostolic Age of the church (or soon thereafter). The cessationist doctrine arose in the Reformed theology, initially in response to claims of Roman Catholic miracles. Modern discussions focus more on the use of spiritual gifts in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, though this emphasis has been taught in traditions that arose earlier, such as Methodism."
Taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism
God Bless.
Acts 1:
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
These verses set the tone and the definition for what is required to be an apostle.
There have never been any apostles outside of this requirement.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
These verses set the tone and the definition for what is required to be an apostle.
There have never been any apostles outside of this requirement.
One thing I do know: William Branham, faith healer and one of the early promoters of Latter Rain, was as phony as they come. He's been exposed many times over as a liar and conman. Branham is promoted by the NAR and Word of Faithers as this great man with spiritual powers; however, I'd have a hard time thinking of anything more laughable.
Have you all heard of Peter Popoff?
He was able to tell exactly what ailments particular people in the crowd had. It was 100 percent correct.
BUT... turns out his wife had interviewed these people before hand and was feeding information to him through a microphone.
So he got done for this.. out of ministry. You would think the people going to his events would know he is false. .
BUT.. later he goes about selling 'prayer hankerchiefs' supposedly blessed by God. Of course they were not. But he sucked in a whole lot of people again. They didn't learn from what he did.
He was able to tell exactly what ailments particular people in the crowd had. It was 100 percent correct.
BUT... turns out his wife had interviewed these people before hand and was feeding information to him through a microphone.
So he got done for this.. out of ministry. You would think the people going to his events would know he is false. .
BUT.. later he goes about selling 'prayer hankerchiefs' supposedly blessed by God. Of course they were not. But he sucked in a whole lot of people again. They didn't learn from what he did.
He's one of the biggest fraud$ posing as a pastor that there is. 76 years old with dyed jet black hair. Vanity.
Miracle water.
Free!
It's tap water.
When I see men pulling those scams in the name of God I see atheists who think the material world is all there is.
And that's why they think they can separate the desperate from their money.
He never preaches. Instead he sells snake oil cures in the name of God.
After he and his wife pass on it'll be too late to realize how wrong he was.
Miracle water.
Free!
It's tap water.
When I see men pulling those scams in the name of God I see atheists who think the material world is all there is.
And that's why they think they can separate the desperate from their money.
He never preaches. Instead he sells snake oil cures in the name of God.
After he and his wife pass on it'll be too late to realize how wrong he was.
The Church already has a Five-Fold Ministry. The apostles and prophets are to be found in Scripture alone. Then we have evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Unfortunately, too many of them have betrayed their trust and their calling. But the principle remains. As to the heretical "New Apostolic Reformation" (or any variation thereof) it should be simply ignored.
In my research, I found a blog. But I'm curious if anyone knows the history here.
https://studygrowknowblog.com/2017/11/22/new-order-of-latter-rain-begins-in-the-1940s/
I know more about the NAR than the NOLR. As far as the NAR is concerned I'd say that image is pretty factual. When you read the list of things in the right-hand column that the NOLR/NAR stand for it sounds pretty impressive; but when you understand what they mean by these things they don't always conform to the truth.
For example, the Gospel of the Kingdom. A lot of the apostles in the NAR teach that whatever is a reality in heaven is possible now. No disease in heaven? No disease now. No death in heaven? No death now. This leads to a lot of outlandish claims about raising the dead which can never be verified. The Gospel of Unity is another that stands out. They're big time ecumenists and dominionists. This is tied to their kingdom now teaching.
I do know Latter Rain gave birth to the Manifest Sons of God and the Serpent Seed doctrine. Both are racist.
For example, the Gospel of the Kingdom. A lot of the apostles in the NAR teach that whatever is a reality in heaven is possible now. No disease in heaven? No disease now. No death in heaven? No death now. This leads to a lot of outlandish claims about raising the dead which can never be verified. The Gospel of Unity is another that stands out. They're big time ecumenists and dominionists. This is tied to their kingdom now teaching.
I do know Latter Rain gave birth to the Manifest Sons of God and the Serpent Seed doctrine. Both are racist.
If their gospel does not line up with The Gospel, then they've got stormy weather up ahead.
Okay, but where and when did this happen, and who was preaching it?
If we are going to call other persons "heretical", we need to make very sure that our condemnation is justified by facts, not rumours, reports, and innuendos. It is not reasonable to tar the entire movement with the words of a single individual.
I don't see Apostles still active.
I don't see the need for the way the charismatics interpret the prophet.
But I believe all other gifts are still active but as God wills and miracles still occur.
So I am half a Cessationist.
Daniel Kolenda on the NAR: https://charismamag.com/spriritled-living/church-ministry/daniel-kolenda-exposes-the-nar-conspiracy/
Ok.
To be clear, I don't agree with NAR on everything. I do consider them Christian, though, and not a cult or something as some seem to consider for some reason. I agree with their emphasis on Miracles and Healings. And I've seen Good Fruits from some of those associated with the movement, like Daniel Kolenda. As I posted on another thread, his ministry CFAN (https://cfan.org.uk/) claims some 85 MN documented decisions for Christ over 40+ years, mainly in the African Continent.
God Bless.