WHAT IS SIN AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF SIN???????????

arthurfleminger · Oct 30, 2022

What is sin? Many on this board no longer believe in the 10 Commandments, the Law. So, what do we set our moral compasses to when it comes to determining what sin is?

Are there any consequesces to sin, since Jesus forgives us our sins?

Is sin of any importance to us as Christians, since we've already been saved?

Dino246 · Oct 30, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

Many on this board understand that Christians are not under the 10 Commandments or the Law. That is completely distinct from "no longer believing" in them.

Most of the commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, which makes clear those actions are still sinful. The difference is that the Law can only itemize a limited number of actions, while the Holy Spirit can speak to the Christian about any action.

The Holy Spirit speaks to the Christian internally, bringing conviction of sin. He also speaks through a variety of other means, including other people. So, to answer your opening question directly, sin is what the Holy Spirit says it is.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 30, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

Righteousness should be the focus of Christians, not sin. And I seriously doubt whether any genuine Christians thinks that the Ten Commandments are irrelevant. The Gospel cannot be divorced from the consequences of sin.

Grace911 · Oct 30, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

Jesus came for sinners. True
Jesus said "Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH (the LORD God) divorced the House of Israel. They were MARRIED to YHWH. YHWH (the LORD God) says that He never changes.

Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The RULES FOR DIVORCE - YHWH (the LORD God) cannot go against or break His own rules because we and He will not add or diminish from the commands and laws. The Laws Concerning Divorce:

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Even Jeremiah did not understand how YHWH could remarry (recovenant) with the divorced House of Israel who committed adultery - ie went after other gods.

Jer 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

And Paul in the New Testament understood how YHWH could remarry (recovenant) with the House of Israel. He says in Romans 7
Released from the Law OF DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom_11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom_11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom_11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom_11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Jesus (YHWH in the flesh/Immanuel-God with us) came so that He could obey His own law regarding divorce and remarriage, and take back the harlot and remarry (recovenant) with her.

Now to answer your first questions: What is sin?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Joh_10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
(workers of lawlessness).

We have a king. We have a land. We have rules. Who is your king and what rules has he set down? Ten including the fourth commandment. Leviticus 23 - convocation are REHEARSALS and if you ignore the Feasts of YHWH will He know you? Leviticus 11 - dietary rules. Leviticus 25 - the shmittah and jubilee years. New moon sighted to know when the months begin?

Beware - Satan wants to be your king and His rule is "Do as thou wilt". Have no rules and this pleases Satan. Do not be counted as lawless, because you will not be admitted into The Kingdom of God/The Kingdom of Heaven. You will be living outside the gates/and the camps of our resurrected Messiah.

Grace911 · Oct 30, 2022

Dino246 said:

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Isa_42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Isa_51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings

1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Dino246 · Oct 30, 2022

Grace911 said:

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Isa_42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Isa_51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings

1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

And? Flesh out your position with your own words.

studentoftheword · Oct 30, 2022

interesting read -----On Sin

ivingwordin3d.com/discovery/2018/03/31/the-mystery-in-chata-and-pesha-hebrew-words-for-sin/

The Mystery in Chata and Pesha: Hebrew Words for Sin

(46 Ratings)
Posted by STEVE PHILLIPS on MARCH 31, 2018

Two of the words used for sin in Hebrew are Chata and Pesha. Why is there more than one word to describe sin? What makes Chata different from Pesha? How would we know if we have committed these offenses? Is there anything in the pictographic letters that would help us understand more and will they point to Messiah? Let’s find out.

In the Ancient Scriptures, there are at least five different Hebrew words used to describe sin. Only two of them are found in the book written by Joshua that we have been following.

In Chapter 24, which is the last chapter of his biblical narrative, Joshua gives his farewell address to the nation of Israel. The Israelites declare their allegiance to Yahweh in verse 18 saying:

Therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God.

By claiming that Yahweh is their Elohim we could conclude they have truly chosen to follow and worship the one true God, but Joshua follows with an ominous reply in verse 19:

And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD; for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

Both of the words for sin that can be found in the writings of Joshua are here in one verse. The word sin that Joshua uses is the word Chata. The word that is translated transgressions is the other Hebrew word for sin found in Joshua’s writings. That word is Pesha. Let’s investigate the information hidden in both of these words to see what the nation of Israel is guilty of doing.

In the conventional Hebrew, Chata means to sin by missing the goal or by missing the mark. Chata is spelled Chet Tet Aleph.

Chet is the picture of a fence and means private and can mean to separate or to be cut off.

Tet is the picture of the snake and means to surround, to ensnare, or to encircle and can mean in either a good or a bad way.

Aleph is the picture of the Ox and stands for the strong leader or the head of the family and can mean God the Father.

So the first mystery we see in Chata is that Joshua’s people are surrounded and cut off from God the Father even though they missed the goal or missed the mark unintentionally.

Chet is also the number 8, which when it is found in Scripture refers to a new beginning. Tet is the number 9 which is used to point to an evaluation of man resulting in judgment. Aleph is the number 1 which points to God the Father. So the judgment resulting from our missing the goal stands between God the Father and the new beginning He wants to offer us.

But remember that Tet can also mean to surround in a good way. God the Father in His evaluation has always had a plan to encircle the people He loves and provides a way for them to experience that new beginning. That plan would be revealed in Messiah.

As bad as Chata seems, the transgressions that Joshua mentioned is worse. In conventional Hebrew, Pesha is a stronger word for sin and implies a deliberate rebellion against Yahweh and His law. Pesha is spelled Pey Sheen Ayin.

Pey is the picture of the mouth and means to speak or to open.

Sheen is the picture of teeth and means to press, to consume, or to destroy and is the one letter that God uses to identify Himself.

Ayin is the picture of the eye and means to see, to know, or to experience.

So the pictographs of the word Pesha tell us that for those who deliberately rebel against the laws of Yahweh, He declares He will make them know and experience judgment and destruction. But there is good news in the numbers these three letters represent. Pey is the number 80 and points to a new birth. Sheen is the number 300 and is used to represent the final blood sacrifice of the perfect Lamb of God. Ayin is the number 70 and indicates perfect spiritual order carried out with spiritual power and significance.

Yahweh has wanted all along for His people to turn from their rebellion and let Him heal them by the perfect blood sacrifice of Yeshua Ha-Mashiach, Jesus the Christ.

But why did Joshua say that his people could not serve the LORD? Why would Yahweh not forgive their Chata, their unintentional sin, or their Pesha, their deliberate sin?

In verse 23 we get the answer:

Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel.

Unbelievably, they were still worshiping idols instead of Yahweh.

The writer of the Book of Hebrews addressed this same issue in Chapter 10 verse 26:

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The word sin used here is again the word for sin that means to miss the mark. But here we are looking at someone who is missing the mark on purpose! For this person, the blood sacrifice of Yeshua will not apply. He instead is going to suffer judgment.

For those of us who Chata or sin even though unintentional, Yahweh has preserved in the pictographs the picture of us being cut off and fenced in away from our Heavenly Father. In the pictographs in Pesha, Yahweh says we will see our intentional sin result in crushing judgment and destruction.

But it doesn’t have to end this way. As Joshua exclaimed, all we need to do is put away our idols and incline our hearts toward Yahweh. There can then be that blood sacrifice for sin that is once and for all found in Messiah.

Jocund · Oct 30, 2022

"for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." - Rom 14:23b KJV

Locoponydirtman · Oct 30, 2022

Jesus lays out the great commandment which says; Love God with all your heart mind and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself. This also defines sin which would be failure to do as commanded by Jesus.
This is the answer to your question, "what is sin?".
There are consequences for sin. A burdenes conscience is one. Eventual chistisement by the Lord is another, if unrepented of. Also unrepentance of gross sin my get you disciplined by your church. From confrontation by the elders or Pastor to with held from the Lord's supper to excommunication from the church. At least until repentance is reached.

A life of repentance is the life of a Christian. So it is very important.

studentoftheword · Oct 31, 2022

Locoponydirtman said:

I wonder just how many can actually fulfil that command of Love God with all your heart --soul and mind and strength ----what does that really mean to Folks ?????----Agape is the Love here not human love ----

How many know the true characteristics of Agape and can master them all the time ------it is all well and good to spout the scripture but actually accomplishing it is another matter ------

The second Command comes off the first ---so if you don't truly fulfil the command to Agape God then you can't fulfil the second to Agape your neighbour -----

So if one doesn't fully Agape God first ----which is the first command --are they then in sin ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sin always has consequences -----and no one can escape that ------

Locoponydirtman · Oct 31, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Yes. Because perfection is God's standard. So we are in sin as long as we have this flesh hanging on. Until it is burried in the grave and ressurected into eternity with Christ. This also answers the question are we sinners even as Chrisrians the answer is yes, because we dont love God perfectly. So we live a life of repentance. So we on our knees pound our chest calling on him saying have mercy on me; a wretched sinner.

Jocund · Oct 31, 2022

studentoftheword said:

This line makes no sense.

studentoftheword · Oct 31, 2022

Locoponydirtman said:

I strongly disagree with this statement here -----

WE were Sinners ---Born Again people have a name Change ----they are Saints in God's eyes and no longer sinners ----and we should not stay in the past of what we were called ---this is very important for Born Again People to understand ----even though we will still miss the mark ---God does not see the sin --He sees His Son in us

You are what you say you are ----if you say your still a sinner after receiving Jesus in your heart then your saying your old nature is still in play and that contradicts what scripture says that you are a new Creation in Christ ----God's grace will keep you from sinning

What reflection you see back at you in the mirror is important ------when you see your old self then you haven't Changed -----if you see the reflection of Jesus who is in you then your a Saint and heaven bound -----you are not a sinner -----

Locoponydirtman · Oct 31, 2022

Jocund said:

I never respond to such statements. They are alway an attempt to obfuscate. The fact is that we dont love God perfectly and are therefore always in sin. Regardless of these so called love types or delineations. There is only one definition of Love. That is to actively work toward what ever is best for the loved person.

Locoponydirtman · Oct 31, 2022

studentoftheword said:

I strongly disagree with this statement here -----

WE were Sinners ---Born Again people have a name Change ----they are Saints in God's eyes and no longer sinners ----and we should not stay in the past of what we were called ---this is very important for Born Again People to understand ----even though we will still miss the mark ---God does not see the sin --He sees His Son in us

You are what you say you are ----if you say your still a sinner after receiving Jesus in your heart then your saying your old nature is still in play and that contradicts what scripture says that you are a new Creation in Christ ----God's grace will keep you from sinning

What reflection you see back at you in the mirror is important ------when you see your old self then you haven't Changed -----if you see the reflection of Jesus who is in you then your a Saint and heaven bound -----you are not a sinner -----

View attachment 244866

Do you Love God perfectly?
Do you love your neighbor as yourself perfectly ?

studentoftheword · Oct 31, 2022

studentoftheword said:
Agape is the Love here not human love

Jocund said:

What makes no sense to you ---Agape is a fruit of the Spirit -----there are actually 4 types of love -----and agape is the highest form of love ---which is God's love ----and that is the Love that is spoke of when it comes to God and neighbour ---

The 4 Types Of Love In The Bible

Bible Verses About Love.
Philia – Brotherly Love.
Eros – Sensual or Romantic Love.
Storge – Familial Love.
Agape – Unconditional Love.

Human love includes the 3 above Agape ----all conditional ----Agape is unconditional and means loving the unlovely ----no matter what is done or said to you you love the person anyway -----and that is not an easy feat to obtain -----

studentoftheword · Oct 31, 2022

Do you Love God perfectly?
Do you love your neighbor as yourself perfectly ?

Well what is your take on loving God perfectly ------that is the Question ??

Jesus said no one is perfect ---except God ----so that says it all ------but without Agape you cannot even begin to love God with all your heart --soul and mind ------Agape is unconditional love ----when bad situations comes upon you --you love God anyway -----when a child dies ---you love God anyway ----when you loose your house and all your belongings and all your life's work in a major storm ---you love God anyway ----when you master that only then can you Agape your neighbour -----God loves us with all our baggage --with all our mocking Him ---with all our unbelief -----with all our wavering Faith ----etc

A very tall order for anyone to master ---but you have to get the First command mastered before you can do the second -----

This is my Quote from my post above ----

studentoftheword said:

Locoponydirtman · Oct 31, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Do you Love God perfectly?
Do you love your neighbor as yourself perfectly ?

Well what is your take on loving God perfectly ------that is the Question ??

Jesus said no one is perfect ---except God ----so that says it all ------but without Agape you cannot even begin to love God with all your heart --soul and mind ------Agape is unconditional love ----when bad situations comes upon you --you love God anyway -----when a child dies ---you love God anyway ----when you loose your house and all your belongings and all your life's work in a major storm ---you love God anyway ----when you master that only then can you Agape your neighbour -----God loves us with all our baggage --with all our mocking Him ---with all our unbelief -----with all our wavering Faith ----etc

A very tall order for anyone to master ---but you have to get the First command mastered before you can do the second -----

This is my Quote from my post above ----

Its not subjective.
Jesus set the standard.

studentoftheword · Oct 31, 2022

Locoponydirtman said:

You got that right it is not subjective ----and the only way to get Agape is to have Christ in you and you are to work it out ---Word out your Salvation -------that is it is up to you to master being unconditional in your love -------and the scriptures and Jesus tells you how to accomplish this ----so you have to follow and practice the how to have unconditional love in your daily life and you have to have Agape towards God ------

No one in their human nature can have Agape ---you need the Help of the Holy Spirit to guide you into that love ---and you need to practice it ---when someone hits you in the face you need to ask the Holy Spirit to help you not to retaliate in any way -----if you retaliate in any way you have not Agape for that person ----

-Agape is a fruit of the Spirit and has to be cultivated like all the rest of the fruits of the Spirit like self control -----you don't just have self control over your emotions when you are a babe in Christ ----as you mature in your walk with Christ you will learn by practicing to have control over your emotions ---you don't have the peace beyond all human understanding when you are a babe in Christ --you have learn how to have that peace and put it into practice -----

So you don't have to like what a person does or how they act but you are to love the person no matter their actions toward you or anyone else ------that takes work on our part to accomplish that -------God has given us the tools ---it is up to us to try and perfect as much as possible our Christ like Character which includes showing Agape to our enemies ------

You have to know you have an enemy here who will do everything in his power to make you fail in your Loving God with all your heart ===soul --mind --strength etc ----you have to fight and practice to be steadfast in your quest of Agape -----just like to have to be steadfast in your quest not to fall into sin when you receive Christ in you -----

Jocund · Oct 31, 2022

studentoftheword said:

No.

Why are you making up your own definition of agape?

WHAT IS SIN AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF SIN???????????

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