Nephelim

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#21
In the same context I previously quoted concerning spying out the promised land, Arba is mentioned as the forefather of Anak, but i found it to daunting to try and trace the lineage, but the stature of the inhabitants is mentioned. But I agree that the only mention of 500 ft tall is found in the questionable source of the Book of Enoch which many have run with as actual scripture.

However, in the text proof you provided above with special attention to "the same" (mighty men of renown, men of old), following the grammar that "the same" is the same in subject as the preceding "Sons of God" and 'the same' doesn't reflect upon the "children" born to them that some would suggest. According to the provided Hebrew morphology, the latter understanding isn't supported as "Those" indicated as 3rdperson masculine plural doesn't agree with the "children" indicated as 3rd person common plural.
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭

If we just read along it sort of needs no explaination

all
I was saying brother is a totally agree with what your saying I’m just saying Noah’s sons aren’t where the division of man began but with cain and abel ( replaced by Seth )

one son of Adam the firstborn and rightful hier sins and loses his inheritance killing his younger brother he is outcast and loses his inheritance because of the darkness he followed remember God warned him about sin and immediately he went and killed abel

it’s where the sons of God and sons of men are established Gods children call
On his name through seth and then enos when men began calling on Jesus name.

so you have the sons of God Abel’s line re established by Seth and the knowledge of good and life

“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:25-26‬ ‭

they are Gods sons

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. ….But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And cains children the children of men born sinners from the knowledge of evil and death from the breaking of this command came cain and Abel’s destiny and really all Mankind

“but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17

Cain was of the darkness and abel of the light

since Adam and Eve are the fruit like cain and abel mankind is divided between light and dark good and evil

“And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Man mixed it up again within ourselves eating the tree of good and evil so God has done this in Christ again separating light and dark good and evil

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

children of God are those who come into the light for redemption to our rightful inheritance of his children through faith in the son

Sadly when we start hearing Jesus is teaching us to repent often this happens inside us rather than the latter salvstion

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:18-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Since we all are caught between good and evil in our own selves being sinners we need to step into the light of Christs judgements so our knowledge of God can be fixed and then we can remember who we are

We need to go into the light of the gospel in this world and get out of the darkness in it see how Paul’s doctrine explains and puts it all together of how its Meant to affect our faith ? How it all comes together ?

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ ( the only son ) also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. ( the darkness )


For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. ( the light )

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: ( John 3 :18-21)for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.


Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-11, 13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we’re willing to hear the gospel we can know Gods will
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#22
Were the sons of God angels or the sons of Seth in Genesis where the women had giant babies. I personally side with the story that angels slept with women.
It doesnt say that women had giant babies. It says also there were giants in the land.
Its says the offpring of the sons of God and the Daughters of men were men of renoun.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,818
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#23
What does "begotten" mean, in your understanding?
there’s one the rod and true son Jesus and many who are adopted by faith in him the begotten

this is why everything in scripture for Gods children revolves around Jesus and is revealed in Jesus to believers

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:32‬ ‭

The gospel is what tells us we are the children of we hear the begotten son who is God manifest in the flesh speaking his word , we’re going to know and believe we are Gods children through Christ and faith in him hearing what he’s teaching us to believe

The children of God are born of Gods spirit the spirit of his begotten son Jesus Christ the same who breathed life into Adam has breathed life into all believers
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,781
13,414
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#24
there’s one the rod and true son Jesus and many who are adopted by faith in him the begotten

this is why everything in scripture for Gods children revolves around Jesus and is revealed in Jesus to believers

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:32‬ ‭

The gospel is what tells us we are the children of we hear the begotten son who is God manifest in the flesh speaking his word , we’re going to know and believe we are Gods children through Christ and faith in him hearing what he’s teaching us to believe

The children of God are born of Gods spirit the spirit of his begotten son Jesus Christ the same who breathed life into Adam has breathed life into all believers
Thanks, but I asked a specific person for their understanding of the term. I will likely never ask anyone on this site what the general definition of a word or term is.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#25
“Angels are sons of God because they were created sinless.”

the Bible

“being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Angels are sons of God but are not begotten by God. Big difference.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
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#26
Your logic is flawed. Angels are not sons of God "because" of anything other than the fact that they are His creations. Further, there is nothing in Scripture saying that angels were created sinless. While it's a reasonable conclusion, it is not actually scriptural truth.
Can you point to a son of God in scripture that was not sinless in it's creation?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#27
What does "begotten" mean, in your understanding?
Seth was begotten by Adam. Adam's seed produced Seth. God's seed produced the body inside Mary's womb that housed the Word. That body was not begotten by a son of Adam.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#28
Were the sons of God angels or the sons of Seth in Genesis where the women had giant babies. I personally side with the story that angels slept with women.
they didn't have giant babies (ouch especially with no nerve blockers)

the offspring grew into giants

 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,781
13,414
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#29
Can you point to a son of God in scripture that was not sinless in it's creation?
Fallacy. The absence of a declaration does not make its opposite the truth.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,781
13,414
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#30
Seth was begotten by Adam. Adam's seed produced Seth. God's seed produced the body inside Mary's womb that housed the Word. That body was not begotten by a son of Adam.
You're on the right track but have not traveled far enough. Keep going.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#31
To those who believe that the Sons of God refers to angels, what explanation do you give that explains how the angels came about their ability to reproduce?
I ask because they don't even have the ability to reproduce after their own kind. How and when did they become endowed with the ability to reproduce after another kind?
I'm not asking in jest. I've never been able to find an answer. Does scripture speak to this issue?
most think the answer to that one is found in Jude

And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. v 6

they left their first estate...that is, as God had created them. they are created beings...spirits...
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,569
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#32
Can you point to a son of God in scripture that was not sinless in it's creation?
You mean besides every believer in the New Testament? And the priests who were sons of God in the OT?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,569
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#33
most think the answer to that one is found in Jude

And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. v 6

they left their first estate...that is, as God had created them. they are created beings...spirits...
Their first estate was the House of God. They were created to serve the house. They left that estate and rejected God's estate, which included humans as God's heirs.
 
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Polar

Guest
#34
Their first estate was the House of God. They were created to serve the house. They left that estate and rejected God's estate, which included humans as God's heirs.

uh

pretty sure I basically said that since their first estate was obviously as they were when God created them (shrugs)
 
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Polar

Guest
#35
and it's Nephilim at any rate

really ;)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#36
most think the answer to that one is found in Jude

And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. v 6

they left their first estate...that is, as God had created them. they are created beings...spirits...
I appreciate your reply. But how did they do it? Do they possess an ability to change themselves? Angels were the initial transformers?
It seems more likely that leaving their first estate means their sinless estate and the explanation you shared is an explanation looking for a doctrine.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#37
I appreciate your reply. But how did they do it? Do they possess an ability to change themselves? Angels were the initial transformers?
It seems more likely that leaving their first estate means their sinless estate and the explanation you shared is an explanation looking for a doctrine.
I don't see it that way...I think if you just accept what Jude says, it says it all

but I don't know how they would have 'transformed'

perhaps, leaving the presence of God and coming to good ole sinful earth transformed them

yes leaving their first estate would mean as God made them
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,070
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#38
I don't see it that way...I think if you just accept what Jude says, it says it all

but I don't know how they would have 'transformed'

perhaps, leaving the presence of God and coming to good ole sinful earth transformed them

yes leaving their first estate would mean as God made them
I appreciate your perspective.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,569
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#39
uh

pretty sure I basically said that since their first estate was obviously as they were when God created them (shrugs)
I apologize. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just adding information.
Some people have argued that their first estate was their spiritual form and then they gave themselves fleshly bodies and DNA in order to have sex with women.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
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#40
You mean besides every believer in the New Testament? And the priests who were sons of God in the OT?
Every believer in the NT has been born again, made a new creature in Christ. They are sinless in their new creation.