"The Anatomy...

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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,220
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62
#62
I agree that individuals are chosen, but I haven't seen anything to say the "nation of Israel" was chosen.
I should have read more closely. You are obviously referring to salvation. Sorry.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#63
I agree that individuals are chosen, but I haven't seen anything to say the "nation of Israel" was chosen.
They were the ones God chose to start with. He had to start somewhere.

Romans 3:
1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#64
I agree that individuals are chosen, but I haven't seen anything to say the "nation of Israel" was chosen.
Well, in fact, God selected all the people, but few of them were selected.
But perhaps if you read Romans 11 carefully, you will find that there is indeed a nation of Israel was chosen.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#66
Well, in fact, God selected all the people, but few of them were selected.
Are you thinking of this verse:

Matthew 20:16
“So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.”
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#67
Well, in fact, God selected all the people, but few of them were selected.
But perhaps if you read Romans 11 carefully, you will find that there is indeed a nation of Israel was chosen.
Romans 11 states the salvation for "All Israel" meaning Israel as a Spiritual body. No where in scripture does it say that all of Israel would be saved. And nowhere in scripture does it state that the "nation of Israel" was chosen.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#70
1 John 4:4-6 - there are people in this world, that have the spirit of error
Lots of them. These are the ones Jesus died for. We all started out lost.

Your verses:
1 John 4:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#71
Romans 11 states the salvation for "All Israel" meaning Israel as a Spiritual body. No where in scripture does it say that all of Israel would be saved. And nowhere in scripture does it state that the "nation of Israel" was chosen.

The fact that Jacob's name was changed, by God, to be called Israel. I believe the scriptures to teach that all Jacob/Israel (the elect) are eternally saved. Not the whole nation of Israel. Jacob/Israel consists of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. (rev 5:11)
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#72
Romans 11 states the salvation for "All Israel" meaning Israel as a Spiritual body. No where in scripture does it say that all of Israel would be saved. And nowhere in scripture does it state that the "nation of Israel" was chosen.
Romans 11
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes*: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Maybe there are differences between Chinese and English.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,288
4,332
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#74
...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​
unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​
and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​
—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
'link'

Grace, Peace, and JOY!
I left a church before the pastor had gone down that dark path. His pastor was the late RB Thieme. I wondered why he would not teach about hell for a very long time. After a while, I listened to a recorded sermon and he started prepping his congregation for universalism, very subtly. I said o-oh, he's getting into serious heresy. The next year I checked back and he changed into full blown universalism. It was hard to believe that after ten plus years, he was now teaching that everyone was saved.
I never thought it would spread any more.
I wonder how popular it is now?
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#75
I left a church before the pastor had gone down that dark path. His pastor was the late RB Thieme. I wondered why he would not teach about hell for a very long time. After a while, I listened to a recorded sermon and he started prepping his congregation for universalism, very subtly. I said o-oh, he's getting into serious heresy. The next year I checked back and he changed into full blown universalism. It was hard to believe that after ten plus years, he was now teaching that everyone was saved.
I never thought it would spread any more.
I wonder how popular it is now?
You don't need to wonder it. The Bible says that if you believe, the whole family will be saved. Have you ever thought about how big a family is?
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,288
4,332
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#76
You don't need to wonder it. The Bible says that if you believe, the whole family will be saved. Have you ever thought about how big a family is?
Are you referring to John 16:30-32?
I don't know your position on the subject. I was just checking in for a few minutes during a break. My response was only referring to the OP and how it related to my past experience.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#77
Romans 11
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes*: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Maybe there are differences between Chinese and English.
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Rom 9:6-8 KJV

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:16&29 KJV

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." - Rom 11:7 KJV

"And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again." - Rom 11:23 KJV

"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" - Rom 9:27 KJV


Nowhere in scripture does it say that all people of Israel would be saved. Scripture states that very few of Israel will be saved. And still, nowhere in this does scripture say that the "nation of Israel" is chosen.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#78
Are you referring to John 16:30-32?
I don't know your position on the subject. I was just checking in for a few minutes during a break. My response was only referring to the OP and how it related to my past experience.
Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#79
Nowhere in scripture does it say that all people of Israel would be saved.
Romans 11:26
“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

And then we have:
Romans 9:27
“Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

The answer is:
Romans 9:6
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#80
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Rom 9:6-8 KJV

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:16&29 KJV

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." - Rom 11:7 KJV

"And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again." - Rom 11:23 KJV

"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" - Rom 9:27 KJV


Nowhere in scripture does it say that all people of Israel would be saved. Scripture states that very few of Israel will be saved. And still, nowhere in this does scripture say that the "nation of Israel" is chosen.
You asked about chosen, not about saved.

In addition, the Bible says obscure things about the salvation of the Israeli family. On the one hand, there are a few, and on the other hand, God can save the whole.
I can only think that God has two kinds of preparations, which conform to God's habits, and God always leaves a surplus.