HOW DO ATHEISTS/AGNOSTICS/NON-BELIEVERS DETERMINE RIGHT FROM WRONG?????

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Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#82
First - What's there to "discuss" about the "ideology"?! By the word - do you, as I suspect, mean more than biblical belief in Christ's sacrifice? As for "atheist's ideology", your concept of it is nonsense. I can't see anything to discuss.
Second - I would quite like to know your background re. Christianity as you have such views on the subject of atheist's ideology, 'though I suggest you don't overestimate the depth of my curiosity.
Would you like to state YOUR (while atheist) ideology - and - now we're on the subject - that of your atheist friends?
My apologies for interfering in your conversation but @Eli1 has beer on Fridays with atheists. Heā€™s simply describing what they have shared with him but itā€™s not sitting well with you. My guess is different people have different life experiences that often times conclude with a similar result.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
778
113
#83
Itā€™s funny how atheists attack Christianity but not Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism etc.
Snacks, you say, "Itā€™s funny how atheists attack Christianity but not Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism etc."

Actually, it's easy to understand why the secularists only attack Christianity. Firstly, the secularists are afraid to criticize Muslims as Muslims have a reputation for 'physical vengeance' upon those who criticize tenets of their faith. And, secondly, secularists see no threat at all to their lifestyles coming from Bhuddists, Hindus, New Agers etc.

But secularists do see Christianity as being a threat to their philosophy and way of life. Christianity opposes many of the ways of the secularist world. So the secularists have to be on guard against Christianity.

And it should come as no surprise that the way of the world attacks Christianity. Jesus told us this would happen, "Don't be surprised when they hate you, because they hated Me first." And, "Be glad when they persecute you for My Name's sake, for your reward in heaven will be great."
 

AndrewMorgan

Active member
Jul 10, 2022
375
81
28
#84
Short answer to OP's post is ā€œcivil law'. To understand OP's>>>> So, if I'm an atheist/agnostic/non-believer/humanist/secularist, how do I determine my moral code, right from wrong? >>>>>>.Get an understanding of 'Christianity vs. state vs church vs Jewish tradition' throughout history.

The OP's follow on question does not inform any resolution as to how and why 'atheists and others' have thrived while Christians have 'survived', at times under severe persecution.

f life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?

You'd know what it would matter if someone threw acid in your face.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#85
You'd know what it would matter if someone threw acid in your face.
Sure don't understand your statement. What does acid in someone's face have to do with law and Bible and compliance.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,536
17,013
113
69
Tennessee
#86
I feel they need prayer for a softened heart and a mind that will let God in, that their minds could be opened to allow themselves to believe that there is a God that loves them and is waiting for them to come to know him and accept the salvation that is offered to them as freely as to any of us after all we are all lost sinners in need of a Savior.
You have a soft heart, that is for sure.
 

AndrewMorgan

Active member
Jul 10, 2022
375
81
28
#87
Sure don't understand your statement. What does acid in someone's face have to do with law and Bible and compliance.

I must admit - as I was writing it, I wondered if it were an overly nasty example, but the point was - your seemingly rhetorical question "What would it matter?" invited me to answer with an extreme example. Having acid thrown in your face would be something that WOULD matter to you.
However we all got here, in such an instance, we don't have the luxury of apathy.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#88
I must admit - as I was writing it, I wondered if it were an overly nasty example, but the point was - your seemingly rhetorical question "What would it matter?" invited me to answer with an extreme example. Having acid thrown in your face would be something that WOULD matter to you.
However we all got here, in such an instance, we don't have the luxury of apathy.
If life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?
OOPS.....I should have put this part of the OP's question with the first part maybe. It is the OP that followed up with this totally non- consequential question as it only confounds any attempt to see that civil law is the worldly system which has been used by all nations as recorded in the Bible. The exception being God's people.

Egypt was a great power at one time and God's people were likely subject to their laws. It is possible some Egyptians reluctantly observed the ordinances which likely had a strong religious derivation. Those people may have been subject to punishment. Historically this seems common in many societies and continues even today. In some societies the ordinances are strict, while others are permissive. And some societies apply 'law' indiscriminately.

Which societies and when and where and how religious and civil laws are applied is the crux of the matter. Some societies allow great latitude of its' citizens. This allows for 'philosophies' of almost any type to be embraced, and freedoms bordering on anarchy for some. The 'philosophies' some embrace may be what Paul was addressing in the letters to the Corinthians and elsewhere. Some very liberal thinkers may have been irreligious. In my mind everyone has a religion. Some don't realize that they are 'unwitting' participants of a religion. Some societies are very accommodating and civil law is interpreted liberally.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,877
5,621
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#89
All believers, in any creed, have references as to what is right and wrong. For instance, Jews and Christians have the Judeo/Christian values. We get these values from the teaching from Scritpure and the Church.

So, if I'm an atheist/agnostic/non-believer/humanist/secularist, how do I determine my moral code, right from wrong? If life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?
they decide themselves whatā€™s right and wrong because they deny God they have become a form of their own god which is no god at all but a deception and blindfold
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#91
Indeed, this is a fun place to watch mostly.
Eli1, all that a Christian can do is present his interpretation and understanding accompanied by Scripture and let God do the rest. I read somewhere in the Old Testament that (I can find it if I have to) that if you are aware that someone is in danger and you do not warn him, his demise is on your hand. Our love for our fellow man is to do the work of the Holy Spirit as He touches our minds with understanding and our hearts with love and obedience to propagate the knowledge which He has given us. That is what faithful servants do.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#92
Our motivation for posting should be love for God by posting His truths as you receive it from His Holy Spirit and love for those who are predestined to receive it. Sadly, few are those that find it, but God's will be done.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,509
1,812
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#93
Eli1, all that a Christian can do is present his interpretation and understanding accompanied by Scripture and let God do the rest. I read somewhere in the Old Testament that (I can find it if I have to) that if you are aware that someone is in danger and you do not warn him, his demise is on your hand. Our love for our fellow man is to do the work of the Holy Spirit as He touches our minds with understanding and our hearts with love and obedience to propagate the knowledge which He has given us. That is what faithful servants do.
I donā€™t think Iā€™ve seen many of your posts so letā€™s talk. :D

I also donā€™t think you realize the layers here.

First, we are on the internet. So 90% of who we are and what we project through to others in our body language, grace and mannerisms are not shown.
ā€˜This also eliminates a lot of back and forth that you get in real life to understand someoneā€™s point, who they are, where they come from , how much personal history they want to share, so you can then move onto the topic of discussion itself and you go deeper in dialogue.

You canā€™t do any of this in text, you but you can do some via audio (phone call) or video (zoom).

This leaves us with purely a discussion of the minds which is what internet is. When you discuss a Topic in the internet, it should usually be done to seek higher knowledge.
Now, most of the time, people have their minds set on something but rarely we see something genuine or graceful which happens here too, but rarely. For example a member here has changed my mind of a topic simply through great reasoning and his way of communication. I am grateful for that.

Now with that being said, I donā€™t know you and you donā€™t know me and our interpretations of the Bible are probably vastly different because I was brought up by the teachings of the east Orthodox Church and you are probably a version of a Protestant American.

Now since you want to guilt trip me with your message letā€™s talk about that.
If someoneā€™s demise is on my hand then so what?

What if what you call ā€œdutyā€œ someone interprets as ā€œbullyingā€?
What if you approach people in fear using words like ā€œdangerā€œ would backfire on you? Would their demise be on your hand?
And what if you approached them with more humility you might get a different result?

Now Iā€™m going to save you some time here because your whole interpretation of the Bible circles around salvation.
I know this because American churches talk about two things. Salvation and revelation.
ā€˜But in the Orthodox Church these are rarely mentioned and we talk about our love for Christ now and we live with hopeful joy despite daily sufferings.
In fact I would die for Christ but I donā€™t know if Iā€™m saved or Iā€™ll be saved because the Bible is very confusing on this subject.

Now you probably will quote me like 4 or 5 salvation points in the Bible which I will then counter with my own questions so this is gonna be a long debate which might go on for a month depending on how frequently you come to this site and your interest level in this thread.

So what say you @CorrectiveLens ? :D
 
Dec 30, 2020
868
228
43
#94
I donā€™t think Iā€™ve seen many of your posts so letā€™s talk. :D

I also donā€™t think you realize the layers here.

First, we are on the internet. So 90% of who we are and what we project through to others in our body language, grace and mannerisms are not shown.
ā€˜This also eliminates a lot of back and forth that you get in real life to understand someoneā€™s point, who they are, where they come from , how much personal history they want to share, so you can then move onto the topic of discussion itself and you go deeper in dialogue.

You canā€™t do any of this in text, you but you can do some via audio (phone call) or video (zoom).

This leaves us with purely a discussion of the minds which is what internet is. When you discuss a Topic in the internet, it should usually be done to seek higher knowledge.
Now, most of the time, people have their minds set on something but rarely we see something genuine or graceful which happens here too, but rarely. For example a member here has changed my mind of a topic simply through great reasoning and his way of communication. I am grateful for that.

Now with that being said, I donā€™t know you and you donā€™t know me and our interpretations of the Bible are probably vastly different because I was brought up by the teachings of the east Orthodox Church and you are probably a version of a Protestant American.

Now since you want to guilt trip me with your message letā€™s talk about that.
If someoneā€™s demise is on my hand then so what?

What if what you call ā€œdutyā€œ someone interprets as ā€œbullyingā€?
What if you approach people in fear using words like ā€œdangerā€œ would backfire on you? Would their demise be on your hand?
And what if you approached them with more humility you might get a different result?

Now Iā€™m going to save you some time here because your whole interpretation of the Bible circles around salvation.
I know this because American churches talk about two things. Salvation and revelation.
ā€˜But in the Orthodox Church these are rarely mentioned and we talk about our love for Christ now and we live with hopeful joy despite daily sufferings.
In fact I would die for Christ but I donā€™t know if Iā€™m saved or Iā€™ll be saved because the Bible is very confusing on this subject.

Now you probably will quote me like 4 or 5 salvation points in the Bible which I will then counter with my own questions so this is gonna be a long debate which might go on for a month depending on how frequently you come to this site and your interest level in this thread.

So what say you @CorrectiveLens ? :D
Sadly, thank you for revealing yourself to me.:cry:
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,509
1,812
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#97
LOL
And this is why itā€™s fun to watch because people live in their own bubble with massive pride and ego.

I have sometimes wondered if it would be ethical to wake someone from their delusions.

A similar thought experiment would be: if you knew an asteroid would hit earth tomorrow, would you tell your loved ones and your family?