Trinity verses

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Mar 4, 2020
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#21
You literally prove yourself wrong with the verse you share. It’s about Jesus.
Okay then. My claim is that Jesus wasn’t called those things. Please show me where he was called the everlasting Father, mighty God, or wonderful counselor. After your turn I’ll take a turn.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#22
People often say the below verse is just about Jesus, but I don't think so, because Jesus was never called those titles. I can see how Jesus is "Prince of Peace" being the Son of the King of Kings, but Jesus was never called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, or Everlasting Father. This is about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit I believe.

Isaiah 9:6
6For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Wonderful - Judges 18:13
Counselor - John 14:16
Mighty God - Revelation 1:8, 1:17, 2:8, 3:14, 21:6, 22:13
Everlasting Father - John 14:9
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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#23
Okay then. My claim is that Jesus wasn’t called those things. Please show me where he was called the everlasting Father, mighty God, or wonderful counselor. After your turn I’ll take a turn.
My brother, He was called that in the verse you shared. There doesn’t need to be a second, however, @posthuman just showed them.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#24
David was told there would be his offspring on the thrne evermore. The throne of David is the Throne of the Beloved for David is Hebrew for Beloved. David was the sone of Jesse. Jesse from Hebrew means My Redeemer.

The names are prophetic ofour eternal King, the Beloved, Jesus Yeshua. This cannot be refuted, though some may dispute.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#25
Wonderful - Judges 18:13
Counselor - John 14:16
Mighty God - Revelation 1:8, 1:17, 2:8, 3:14, 21:6, 22:13
Everlasting Father - John 14:9
The Father communicates and empowers through His Holy Spirit. Jesus kept saying that what He spoke were not His words but of HIm who sent Him. In John 14: 9 The words spoken by Jesus were words from the Father spoken through Jesus.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
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Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#26
Thursday 1-12-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tevet 19 5783 23rd. Winter Day

Matthew 28:19

A view

Verse Thoughts
Just before His Ascension, the Lord gave the Church their great commission to go and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But discipleship is not synonymous with becoming a Christian. True discipleship can only happen after salvation, for a disciple is one that learns of Christ and keeps on learning of Him.

The commission Christ gave was to make disciples of all nations. A disciple of Christ is a learner of Christ, and we are all called to be disciples of Christ, to learn of Him, and to mature in our faith. The commission Christ gave His own disciples at His Ascension was not simply a call to evangelise the lost (who certainly need to learn about God's free gift of salvation through Christ so that they can trust Him as Saviour), but it is equally a call for all believers to learn of Christ and to keep on learning of Him throughout their whole life, and even to become teachers of Christ as they grow in their Christian life.

Too often, Christ's commission is only seen as an evangelistic call to lost sinners, but it has far wider implications for it is equally a call to teach those that are saved, for all believers need to learn of Christ and to be grounded in the Word of God, for God wants all people to be saved and also to come to a knowledge of the truth. It is a fact that all disciples of Christ are believers in Him, but not all believers in Christ become His disciples.

Only a believer who is learning of Christ and growing in grace can truly be called a disciple of Christ. Only a believer who is being washed in the water of the Word, pressing on for their upward call in Christ Jesus, and maturing in their faith, can truly be called a disciple of Jesus.

Let us all become true disciples of Christ as we learn more and more of Him. And as we walk in Him, may the natural overflow be a desire to tell those we meet of the wonderful love of Christ Jesus and the salvation found in believing in Him.

My Prayer
Heavenly Father, it is my desire to know You more, to learn more of You, and to become a true disciple of Jesus Christ. Give me a teachable spirit, I pray, so that I may grow in grace. And I pray that You would enable me to go and disciple others in Your strength so that together we come to a knowledge of the truth in Christ Jesus, in Whose name I pray, AMEN.

Love, Walter
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#27
My brother, He was called that in the verse you shared. There doesn’t need to be a second, however, @posthuman just showed them.
those verses don’t say what he alleges they say. Jesus wasn’t called any of those names in Isaiah 9:6 aside from possibly Prince of Peace since Jesus is the Son of the King.

Mighty God and Everlasting Father is God the Father.

Wonderful Counselor is the Holy Spirit.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#28
Rev 11:15b
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,

and He will reign forever and ever.”
11:17
“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#29
Rev 11:15b
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,

and He will reign forever and ever.”
11:17
“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign.
“our Lord and His Christ”
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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#30
those verses don’t say what he alleges they say. Jesus wasn’t called any of those names in Isaiah 9:6 aside from possibly Prince of Peace since Jesus is the Son of the King.

Mighty God and Everlasting Father is God the Father.

Wonderful Counselor is the Holy Spirit.
I believe you to be wrong but am not going to argue with you. Be blessed. 🙏
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#32
Everlasting Father...
A better translation is "The Father of Eternity", i.e., the Lord Jesus is the Great Creator Who created ALL things...including time! Col 1v16,17, John 1v3
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#33
A better translation is "The Father of Eternity", i.e., the Lord Jesus is the Great Creator Who created ALL things...including time! Col 1v16,17, John 1v3
You're not understanding it correctly. Let me show you a few things, if you don't mind.

Notice the underline words in the verses below. From God the Father and through Jesus Christ aren't the same things.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

All things come from God the Father.

1 Corinthians 11
12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

God made everything is the bottom line. God made "the pioneer of their salvation" (Jesus Christ His Son) perfect through what he suffered.

Hebrews 2
10In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.

So the Eternal Father is actually not the same individual as the Prince of Peace in Isaiah 9:6. Isaiah 9:6 is a Trinity verse.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#34
You're not understanding it correctly. Let me show you a few things, if you don't mind.
I certainly am understanding it correctly, you aren't!

You've simply twisted this Scripture into something it isn't!

It is speaking about the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus and NOT the Trinity!

Bit of warning for you, interpret Scripture honestly and not dishonestly! 2Peter 3v16
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#35
I certainly am understanding it correctly, you aren't!

You've simply twisted this Scripture into something it isn't!

It is speaking about the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus and NOT the Trinity!

Bit of warning for you, interpret Scripture honestly and not dishonestly! 2Peter 3v16
Thank you for warning me, but I’m good. It’s disappointing you can’t see the Trinity in a verse that talks about a Father, a prince (Son), and a counselor (Holy Spirit counselor John 14:16).
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#36
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#37
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
Two things to note:
1. As soon as Elohim אֱלֹהִים֙ began His relationship with man (Genesis 2) He became Yahweh (YHWH) Elohim יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים ( the LORD God). He was no more an impersonal God but one who communed with man face-to-face.

2. Jesus is called "Elohim" in Exodus 3:13,14: And Moses said unto God [ELOHIM], Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God [ELOHIM] of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God [ELOHIM] said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Since Jesus called Himself "I AM" in Exodus as well as in the Gospel of John, we can rest assured that He is Elohim. At the same time YHWH Elohim also applies to the Father. This is "the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ". Jesus had said "I and my Father are one" and "I am in the Father, and the Father is in me". Yet they are two distinct divine persons.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#38
Yeshua Jesus cried out from the cross and His agony for each of us, "Eli, Eli why hast thour forsaken me:'

Contrary to what many may say, El became synonymous with our English word, god, however it does translate. It means mighty one. El was used to call on all mighty ones, yet we come to know there is but One true Mighty one.. He is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, One,.

Yahwe means to will to be in this gerund form of the Hebrew ver, Hayah. Our Maker will be what He will be, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, yet One. Do not try to figure it out, with your gift of faith believe, for many mysteries are truly yet to be revealed.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#39
Two things to note:
1. As soon as Elohim אֱלֹהִים֙ began His relationship with man (Genesis 2) He became Yahweh (YHWH) Elohim יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים ( the LORD God). He was no more an impersonal God but one who communed with man face-to-face.

2. Jesus is called "Elohim" in Exodus 3:13,14: And Moses said unto God [ELOHIM], Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God [ELOHIM] of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God [ELOHIM] said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Since Jesus called Himself "I AM" in Exodus as well as in the Gospel of John, we can rest assured that He is Elohim. At the same time YHWH Elohim also applies to the Father. This is "the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ". Jesus had said "I and my Father are one" and "I am in the Father, and the Father is in me". Yet they are two distinct divine persons.
Also Elohim is seen in the plural and not singularly.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#40
Also Elohim is seen in the plural and not singularly.
Only in the English Language. In the Hebrew Language, Elohim, when referring to the Most High God is always [[SINGULAR]] in meaning.

I tend to look at it this way...

I am theoretically reading the Ancient Hebrew Text about their God.

That means, I must use their meaning if I want to truly understand what they are writing about.

My English translation only messes up the truth in context. To properly understand I must read the Old Testament like the Hebrew People would have believed it.
 

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