Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Runningman]

All of mankind, after Adam, were born into this world, having our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were, by nature, the children of wrath, even as others. (Eph 2:5)., even babies.

I don’t think so. I didn’t inherit anyone’s sin when I was born. If necessary, I’m prepared to give an account of any of my sins as an adult, as should each of us be, but as to why Adam and Eve did what they did - that’s a question of their disobedience, not mine.

When you were born, which sin did you commit?

 

[CharliRenee]

How we each walk out the calling of our salvation is uniquely tailored to each person. Only God can see clearly at all times the beginning, and the end. In the meantime, we endure, as you say, as we live out the middle. You have a unique talent for sharing your heart, and are dearly loved for that quality. My blessing is perhaps not so obvious. You say you are non-confrontational, and yet I have seen you rise up like a bear to defend God's Word or a person suffering and in need. I get that being bearish it is not your normal mode, but still you are capable.

Renee, in my past life I went to great lengths to avoid confrontation. My life became so ensnared in sin and degenerated into addiction, alcoholism, drug overdoses, etc, because I felt so ill-equipped to deal with life on life's terms; I could not face the harsh realities of life, nor speak my truths for fear of hurting other people's feelings. Arriving at the brink of death repeatedly due to such an inability is no way to live life, ya know? In such a state, I realized eventually that due to constant fear of rejection and abandonment, I could not tell the truth if my life depended on it. Then I realized that my life did depend on my ability to tell the truth. Truth, Pilate asked. What is truth? The circumstances of our lives devoid of God's principles and Christ's love... what can or does it all mean aside from Him?

The search for meaning and purpose is ages old, but still, how are we to interpret all these things which go into the making of ourselves? I spent many years listening to people articulate their truths, their joys, their sorrows, their challenges, and their triumphs, and their understanding of God even as I was still in rebellion against Him, and running from Him, because listening helped me come to a better understanding and acceptance of myself. And then I finally surrendered my life to Christ. I do not speak of my profound experiences of God often, because they are my pearls, but these experiences initially helped me turn my life around, and then they ultimately turned it upside down, and completely transformed how I spend my time. I am am still not good with confrontation, but I am fierce in my defence of the Truth of God's Word, and count it a blessing that I have been graced with some measure of understanding, and I thank God for that, for all else pales in comparison to knowing Him.

Thank you for taking the time Magenta, you seem to be so very balanced to me. Your journey to truth is one I can relate with. The addictions, the fear of rejection and abandonment, listening and analyzing others, trying to understand others and self..all of it I completely can Identify with.

You are right, I can be bearish, my daughters will say...Mama, no one is coming after us, ease up. Hahaha.

However, I am personally working towards that verse... Confidence and quietness shall be your strength. I also really work hard to silence the chatter in my mind, so I keep returning to mind your own business, quiet your mind and work with your hands. Work helps sooooo much, lol, as long as it is not too much!! You have me pondering, though, as you share your journey to surrender your life to Christ. I suppose that is key, the surrendering fully.

I sometimes wonder if where I am or the thoughts I carry, are still skewed by my past and insecurities, like you said your journey. I suppose it is good to chk ourselves, do inventory, but not so much that we become consumed in our own thoughts. Oh Magenta, how I struggle with this. He is the balance we all need.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it back, though, to His truth and how each have own way to salvation, how did you say it, tailored?! I am just now truly grasping how praying to Him, regularly, helps clear the mind to be able to listen to Him more clearly.

Yes!!! He has graced you with understanding. I am sincere in saying you have brought clarity to me on the shall not perish but have everlasting life verse. As simple as that verse is, it brings so much depth and answers.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank you for taking the time Magenta, you seem to be so very balanced to me. Your journey to truth is one I can relate with. The addictions, the fear of rejection and abandonment, listening and analyzing others, trying to understand others and self..all of it I completely can Identify with.

You are right, I can be bearish, my daughters will say...Mama, no one is coming after us, ease up. Hahaha.

However, I am personally working towards that verse... Confidence and quietness shall be your strength. I also really work hard to silence the chatter in my mind, so I keep returning to mind your own business, quiet your mind and work with your hands. Work helps sooooo much, lol, as long as it is not too much!! You have me pondering, though, as you share your journey to surrender your life to Christ. I suppose that is key, the surrendering fully.

I sometimes wonder if where I am or the thoughts I carry, are still skewed by my past and insecurities, like you said your journey. I suppose it is good to chk ourselves, do inventory, but not so much that we become consumed in our own thoughts. Oh Magenta, how I struggle with this. He is the balance we all need.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it back, though, to His truth and how each have own way to salvation, how did you say it, tailored?! I am just now truly grasping how praying to Him, regularly, helps clear the mind to be able to listen to Him more clearly.

Yes!!! He has graced you with understanding. I am sincere in saying you have brought clarity to me on the shall not perish but have everlasting life verse. As simple as that verse is, it brings so much depth and answers.

A good rule for balance as you go through life: look at the size of the rear view mirror in contrast to the windshield.
It's good to look back occasionally, but it's what lies before you that presents current dangers.

 

[CharliRenee]

Hey sis. Good to see you. Been awhile!!

I think this issue of why this debate keeps going on and on is how one defines works.

I think we all would agree. He is our savior and our keeper and out of gratefulness for all he has done and our faith in him as a father, we should daily strive to be like him in works of love

but that is not the real issue in this debate

the issue is one side thinks we are saved by grace alone. And works procede of out that faith and salvation we have

the other group thinks we are pretty much initially saved by grace. But we must maintain that salvation or earn it by our works.. not because we are saved, but to be saved.

hi sis, good to see you!!

hmmm, put it simply like that, I would have to agree that we are saved by Grace alone and works procede (empowered) out of the faith and salvation. I do also believe that our works help strengthen our faith. They are tools God has instructed us to use to help others, as well as stand with Him for cause of God, and to tangibly strengthen our faith. He has given us stuff to do, and this is so good. He created us to need that. The fact that He allows us to be used for His purposes is such an honor, though some days are lazy days, lol, for me anyway.

Thanks for helping me understand what the arguement/debate is.

 

[CharliRenee]

A good rule for balance as you go through life: look at the size of the rear view mirror in contrast to the windshield.
It's good to look back occasionally, but it's what lies before you that presents current dangers.

Hey Cameron, thank you. You are so right. It is sooo true. I am reminded of this when I go into the perverbial rabbit hole of lamenting things of the past. It is best to walk through, then put it down. Yes Yes Yes!!! Him + prayer + love + work + rest + oodles of yummy laughter and some time in nature = healthy mindset!!!

 

[Runningman]

Heavy sigh at this ongoing debate. Can it be both..

HE and only He is our Salvation, let's keep abiding in His truth. Let's endure, knowing He is Faithful.

Let's just praise His Holy Name and Give Him all the Glory, never taking our responsibility lightly to endure!!!

I’m hearing that sigh. I often login and see there are a ton of replies to me. I sigh, but press forward, even though I know there will just be disagreements, attacks against my character, name calling, false accusations, etc.

I’ve seen everything from being called demon possessed, accused of wanting to murder Jesus, and suggested i would be martyred if someone had their way.

These discussions are dangerous, but I’m not afraid. Be strong sister and keep pressing forward.

 

[BillG]

I’m hearing that sigh. I often login and see there are a ton of replies to me. I sigh, but press forward, even though I know there will just be disagreements, attacks against my character, name calling, false accusations, etc.

I’ve seen everything from being called demon possessed, accused of wanting to murder Jesus, and suggested i would be martyred if someone had their way.

These discussions are dangerous, but I’m not afraid. Be strong sister and keep pressing forward.

Are all these attacks/accusations been made publicly or behind the scenes?

 

[Runningman]

Are all these attacks/accusations been made publicly or behind the scenes?

Publicly here in various threads. My experience here isn’t a good one. I mean, I can accept disagreements, but these conversations get downright nasty sometimes.

 

[BillG]

Publicly here in various threads. My experience here isn’t a good one. I mean, I can accept disagreements, but these conversations get downright nasty sometimes.

Have you reported the following?

"I’ve seen everything from being called demon possessed, accused of wanting to murder Jesus, and suggested i would be martyred if someone had their way."

 

[Sipsey]

Human good- rejected by Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:8,9), is never acceptable to God, and it does not produce blessing in the life of the believer. It is contrary to the principle of Grace, in which God does the work. In Christian growth, the Holy Spirit provides for the production of divine good in the believer’s life, through His filling, control, and teaching functions. God does the giving; man does the receiving.



Legalism is human good production for the purpose of earning and receiving merit or blessing from God. In Legalism, man does the work and receives the credit. Therefore, Legalism is a product of the Sin Nature lust patterns. Under Grace, God does the work and receives the “credit” (glory). Human good production of the Sin Nature will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. It is called “wood, hay, and stubble” and will be burned. The “gold, silver, and precious stones”, of divine good production of the Holy Spirit, will remain. 1 Cor. 3:10-15

 

[BillG]

Hey Cameron, thank you. You are so right. It is sooo true. I am reminded of this when I go into the perverbial rabbit hole of lamenting things of the past. It is best to walk through, then put it down. Yes Yes Yes!!! Him + prayer + love + work + rest + oodles of yummy laughter and some time in nature = healthy mindset!!!

Hi precious sister and daughter of our Father.

It is very easy to struggle with this.



Trust me I know.

I thank God that my past has been forgiven.
I thank him that my past no longer dictates my future but he uses my past by working good in it to conform me to the image of Jesus.

Bloody hard but it's the truth.

 

[CharliRenee]

Hi precious sister and daughter of our Father.

It is very easy to struggle with this.

View attachment 247996

Trust me I know.

I thank God that my past has been forgiven.
I thank him that my past no longer dictates my future but he uses my past by working good in it to conform me to the image of Jesus.

Bloody hard but it's the truth.

Oh yes, I know that conversation with me and my brain too, lol. Hello to you my dear brother from the same amazing Heavenly Father. Yes, He uses all of m it and for this I am so thankful. He is so beyond able to lavish us with grace so we are able to get beyond ourselves and our past so we are sufficient and able to be used by and for Him. Yay. Thanks for your kind words of encouragement!


Plus, he who has been forgiven much, loves much. <<< wow, how cool is that? VERY!!!

 

[cv5]

I didn’t inherit anyone’s sin when I was born.

Wrong again. The simple fact that all men die is PROOF POSITIVE that "sin hath reigned" over the fallen seed of Adam.

Rom 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:14
but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of him who is coming.

Rom 5:16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Psa 51:5
Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You do err in saying Jesus' sacrifice was a failure if all are not saved by His shed righteous blood,
since you always leave the need for faith out of your equation, and even say those without faith
are saved. Christ died for the sins of the whole world... a sacrifice which was abundantly sufficient
to cover every single sin of every single person (except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as per
His own words), but efficacious and applied only to those who believe. His sacrifice did make it
possible for us to be reconciled to God and escape the second death. I will proclaim this despite your denial.

I am sure that we can agree on this one thing; All of the scriptures must harmonize with one another, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit, if we are to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. You, no doubt, are one of his adopted children.

 

[Runningman]

Have you reported the following?

"I’ve seen everything from being called demon possessed, accused of wanting to murder Jesus, and suggested i would be martyred if someone had their way."

No and I don’t guess anyone else did either. If they did, it didn’t make a difference.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Do you believe your faith without works is dead like James said? Yes or no.

To GOD NO but to man yes.
The thief on the cross did no physical works,was his faith dead to GOD?

 

[Runningman]

Wrong again. The simple fact that all men die is PROOF POSITIVE that "sin hath reigned" over the fallen seed of Adam.

Rom 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:14
but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of him who is coming.

Rom 5:16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Psa 51:5
Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me.

You have a whole new set of problems if that’s what you believe. Jesus was tempted in all ways as that we are yet he remained without sin:

Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

This is what temptation is:

James 1
14but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

That means you aren’t interpreting your alleged proof correctly. I have my answer; I hope after careful study and prayer you have the correct answer.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Man is saved through faith apart from the merit of works, yet authentic faith in Christ does not remain apart from the presence of works.

We either have faith in Christ, or we don't. His born again children all have faith that is given as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, in the new birth, and we all have different levels of faith, depending where our walk is. I believe, but help my unbelief.

 

[Cameron143]

To GOD NO but to man yes.
The thief on the cross did no physical works,was his faith dead to GOD?

Unless rebuking the other thief was a work of faith revealing that he was confessing Christ with his mouth. When he asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom was an exercise of faith revealing he did believe He would be raised from the dead.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And therein lies the fallacy. No person can "maintain" their salvation, for the simple reason that eternal life is a free GIFT of God, which cannot be earned or deserved. So it all boils down to a gross misunderstanding of salvation. It is a gross misunderstanding of justification by grace through faith, and the imputed righteousness which God gives to the one who repents and believes. "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness". This is a mind-blowing concept which many genuine Christians fail to fathom.

All scriptures mus harmonize, if we are to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.

Only his sheep can hear and believe.

The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, would never repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws, that he cannot discern, and think that they are foolishness.