Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
And do you know who else can be born from above, be Jesus' brother, and be Jesus' friend? 
-
2
- Show all
yes, I think I agree with you. Seems like this particular subject is bringing out the bad in people, provoking anger and ad hominems against my character. It's a mercy that I do not continue to engage with those who cannot have a mature conversations about it, lest, somehow by showing what the Bible says, I lead them into a stumbling block they aren't ready to hurdle over.
Thank you for being a voice of reason and I will indeed pray for myself and those who I feel need it. 🙏🏻
Thank you for being a voice of reason and I will indeed pray for myself and those who I feel need it. 🙏🏻
Crystal clear Grandpa. Christ died for sinners......NOT SAINTS. The transformation occurs thereafter.
Rom 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
G4921 - synistēmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
Rom 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
G4921 - synistēmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
-
1
- Show all
It's something I don't get at the moment is alot of people thinking water baptism is part of receiving eternal life.
Having water baptism for receiving eternal life is the mark of a non Christian religion. A cult in the negative sense of being a cult.
Yet it is getting more and more common
Having water baptism for receiving eternal life is the mark of a non Christian religion. A cult in the negative sense of being a cult.
Yet it is getting more and more common
-
3
- Show all
No. We are justified through Christ's faith not ours. You are correct in that no one can have faith while
dead, and that was exactly my point. So, to have faith, one must first be given spiritual life which can only
be as a byproduct of salvation - that it is from salvation, it is not to salvation.
That is why we say that God has chosen only the elect for salvation - because they are only ones that He makes spiritually alive.
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
dead, and that was exactly my point. So, to have faith, one must first be given spiritual life which can only
be as a byproduct of salvation - that it is from salvation, it is not to salvation.
That is why we say that God has chosen only the elect for salvation - because they are only ones that He makes spiritually alive.
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Well, I can definitely see that as plausible. At church, people are normally provided a curriculum where the same doctrines are hashed out repeatedly with little to no deviation from the course outline.
Sometimes it's mandated by the denomination's oversight committee what is allowed to be taught, what isn't, and normally the residential minister knows this even if they don't necessarily believe the very words that come out of their own mouth.
Thus, in a sense, denominations may often have very little room for spiritual growth and understanding, whereas a person with a Bible and a prayer is not under such constrains.
Sometimes it's mandated by the denomination's oversight committee what is allowed to be taught, what isn't, and normally the residential minister knows this even if they don't necessarily believe the very words that come out of their own mouth.
Thus, in a sense, denominations may often have very little room for spiritual growth and understanding, whereas a person with a Bible and a prayer is not under such constrains.
In part you’re right. But in part your wrong
Christ went to the cross because he had faith in God. That is christs faith paying the payment for salvation.
But thats as far as it goes.
We are justified when we trust (faith) him.. Not when he trusts us.. He does not trust us anymore than we should trust in ourselves thats why a works based salvation has no merit. People trust themselves to do right, to do works, or to not fall away. All in their power..
Thats why the tax collector got on his knees, because he STOPPED trusting self. And placed his faith in God
again, Faith is not a action word. It can not save you. What faith does is empower us to call out to jesus. Empower us to work the works of God.. But it is not work itself.
Christ went to the cross because he had faith in God. That is christs faith paying the payment for salvation.
But thats as far as it goes.
We are justified when we trust (faith) him.. Not when he trusts us.. He does not trust us anymore than we should trust in ourselves thats why a works based salvation has no merit. People trust themselves to do right, to do works, or to not fall away. All in their power..
Thats why the tax collector got on his knees, because he STOPPED trusting self. And placed his faith in God
again, Faith is not a action word. It can not save you. What faith does is empower us to call out to jesus. Empower us to work the works of God.. But it is not work itself.
I didn't say "when He trusts us" - not even close. Can't see how you got to that from what I said.
Maybe I didn't state it well enough, but that was not my point.
We are justified not by anything that we do but by the faith OF Christ.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Not in their power until saved. Until then, dead in sin.
Doing so meant that he HAD already become saved. Our faith is not what saves us, instead it comes from salvation.
There is absolutely nothing that a man can do that will/can cause him to be saved.
Maybe I didn't state it well enough, but that was not my point.
We are justified not by anything that we do but by the faith OF Christ.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Not in their power until saved. Until then, dead in sin.
Doing so meant that he HAD already become saved. Our faith is not what saves us, instead it comes from salvation.
There is absolutely nothing that a man can do that will/can cause him to be saved.
-
1
- Show all
His entire ministry did - at least for those so chosen for it. At certain times throughout their lives, they become born again.
Not possible while dead spiritually. What do you think dead spiritually, means? It is that being dead, they are spiritually oblivious to it,
and therefore, completely incapable of changing that.
[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
It does. It means that everything pertaining to salvation is given from salvation as a free gift, with nothing left for the person
to do for it. That is why the Bible calls it a free gift, otherwise, it wouldn't and couldn't be. That is what makes Christ the Saviour,
and not man.
[Rom 5:18 KJV] 18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Not possible while dead spiritually. What do you think dead spiritually, means? It is that being dead, they are spiritually oblivious to it,
and therefore, completely incapable of changing that.
[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
It does. It means that everything pertaining to salvation is given from salvation as a free gift, with nothing left for the person
to do for it. That is why the Bible calls it a free gift, otherwise, it wouldn't and couldn't be. That is what makes Christ the Saviour,
and not man.
[Rom 5:18 KJV] 18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
-
1
- Show all
Correct, and there are two points that may solve all the Confusion:
1) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided - ie:
God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:
• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14;
• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)
• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)
"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:
• Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)
• Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)
• Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":
"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7; Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)
►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:
2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The Revelation Of The Mystery, That no one can overturn:
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance
-----------------------------
Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?
-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!
1) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided - ie:
God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:
• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14;
• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)
• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)
"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:
• Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)
• Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)
• Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":
"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7; Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)
►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:
2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The Revelation Of The Mystery, That no one can overturn:
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance
-----------------------------
Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?
-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!
When does this happen?
when Christ faith?
or when they trust Christ?
Spiritually dead means seperated from God. the penalty for sin. Thats it in a nutshell.
Your right, so they must come to the point they trust the person who can change it for them
Thats why the natural man must be broken, Only God can do this. But he will not do it against someones will.
It means they can not understand the deeper mysteries
They already know the deserve death (romans 1)
they already know they are a inner (romans 1)
all they have to do is TRUST that this is why they are dead, and trust CHRIST who came to save them, and believe what the HS convicts them off
This is why it is hard to talk to certain people
the very fact I have the ability to trust in CHrist for Christ to save me is by his grace. it is the gift of God. as is my salvation.
Me trusting GOD is not me saving myself. I do not know why you seem to think it is. but it is not.
Until you realize this, It will be impossible for yuo to comprehend what I believe
when Christ faith?
or when they trust Christ?
Spiritually dead means seperated from God. the penalty for sin. Thats it in a nutshell.
Your right, so they must come to the point they trust the person who can change it for them
Thats why the natural man must be broken, Only God can do this. But he will not do it against someones will.
It means they can not understand the deeper mysteries
They already know the deserve death (romans 1)
they already know they are a inner (romans 1)
all they have to do is TRUST that this is why they are dead, and trust CHRIST who came to save them, and believe what the HS convicts them off
This is why it is hard to talk to certain people
the very fact I have the ability to trust in CHrist for Christ to save me is by his grace. it is the gift of God. as is my salvation.
Me trusting GOD is not me saving myself. I do not know why you seem to think it is. but it is not.
Until you realize this, It will be impossible for yuo to comprehend what I believe