Testing the spirits and the Asbury 'revival'

IsaiahA · Feb 17, 2023

I am a believer in testing the supposedly Christian happenings like these 'revival' at Asbury and other copycat doings.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world...We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (1John 4:1, 6)

From this I know that today our testing of the spirits is to see if it agrees with the scriptures.

"Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, 'If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.'” (John 8:31-32)

I find Jesus' words applicable here for any true work of the Holy Spirit will continue with fruit.

"I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men/anthropos; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity...I desire therefore that the men/aner pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing... In like manner, that women/gune adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; but (which becometh women/gune professing godliness) through good works. Let a woman/gune learn in quietness with all subjection. (1Tim 2:1-2, 8-11)

I notice the first word translated "men" is anthropos which means male and female, all humans. The second word, men/aner, is about prayer lifting up holy hands. Here the Greek is aner which means a male person, a man in contrast to women or man in contrast to boy. So, the lifting of hands, even if it is the point being made about body posture, is for men in prayer, not men and women singing and swaying about with arms raised like at a rock concert. I believe the point is our holiness in prayer, sin in the heart hinders prayer. After the reference to men's prayer, in contrast what concerns women is expressed and that last sentence is: "Let a woman/gune learn in quietness with all subjection."

I find the Pentecostal, holiness and charismatic movements today don't match up to the scriptures. So far, I find the claims of healings, people being raised from the dead, tongues and receiving direct word from God are fake, emotionalism, and not proven. I class it with the MAGA claims the 2020 election was stolen. There is a lot of eye witness testimony spread about, but so far nothing has held up to examination in a court of law.

I'll wait and see: "If it is from God, you will not be able to stop them, or you may even be found fighting against God.” (Acts 5:39)

Gideon300 · Feb 17, 2023

IsaiahA said:

I am a believer in testing the supposedly Christian happenings like these 'revival' at Asbury and other copycat doings.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world...We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (1John 4:1, 6)

From this I know that today our testing of the spirits is to see if it agrees with the scriptures.

"Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, 'If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.'” (John 8:31-32)

I find Jesus' words applicable here for any true work of the Holy Spirit will continue with fruit.

"I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men/anthropos; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity...I desire therefore that the men/aner pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing... In like manner, that women/gune adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; but (which becometh women/gune professing godliness) through good works. Let a woman/gune learn in quietness with all subjection. (1Tim 2:1-2, 8-11)

I notice the first word translated "men" is anthropos which means male and female, all humans. The second word, men/aner, is about prayer lifting up holy hands. Here the Greek is aner which means a male person, a man in contrast to women or man in contrast to boy. So, the lifting of hands, even if it is the point being made about body posture, is for men in prayer, not men and women singing and swaying about with arms raised like at a rock concert. I believe the point is our holiness in prayer, sin in the heart hinders prayer. After the reference to men's prayer, in contrast what concerns women is expressed and that last sentence is: "Let a woman/gune learn in quietness with all subjection."

I find the Pentecostal, holiness and charismatic movements today don't match up to the scriptures. So far, I find the claims of healings, people being raised from the dead, tongues and receiving direct word from God are fake, emotionalism, and not proven. I class it with the MAGA claims the 2020 election was stolen. There is a lot of eye witness testimony spread about, but so far nothing has held up to examination in a court of law.

I'll wait and see: "If it is from God, you will not be able to stop them, or you may even be found fighting against God.” (Acts 5:39)

I agree that much of what passes for the Holy Spirit is counterfeit. But not all. During the time of the "Toronto Blessing", which was 100% fake, I visited the church of a pastor that I knew and respected. The meeting was a farce. At the same time, I received a word that was exactly what I needed to hear at the time. The same pastor had given me a word about 10 years before that was also from the Lord.

We need discernment. God gives gifts to the Church. That is not the same as fruit. That was one problem of the Corinthian church, gifts but little fruit. Will Jesus be in a meeting where false manifestations take place? Yes. He is wherever two or three are gathered in His name.

Pentecostalism has a real problem with discernment, at least in Australia. Lord Jesus warned us about lying signs and wonders. It's about time that we took Him seriously.

ResidentAlien · Feb 18, 2023

IsaiahA said:

The one theme you hear from almost everyone who comments on Asbury is: "This wasn't planned. It has to be a true move of the Holy Spirit because it was spontaneous, it just happened." But was it as spontaneous as it seems?

Asbury appears to pride itself on having a history of "great revivals." (See Asbury Revivals) I say appears because of the list of past revivals they have displayed on their website; I don't know their intention or the hearts of those who put it up.

When you look at the list, there are eight previous revivals. Every one started in either February or March (Two in March, six in February). Coincidence? Maybe God just moves there in February and March. Who can question His ways? My opinion is the revival that's going on there now wasn't planned in the sense that some revivals are planned, two-week events or whatever; but it wasn't purely spontaneous either.

I think it's good people are praying and worshipping God; but the phrase "vain repetition" keeps coming to mind.

ResidentAlien · Feb 19, 2023

The truth finally comes out.

Was Asbury a spontaneous outpouring of the Holy Spirit or was the whole thing planned from the get-go? As I've already posted above, Asbury has a long history of revival "outbreaks" in February and March; but there's more.

Next Thursday, February 23, is the National Collegiate Day of Prayer. It happens annually on the last Thursday in February. This explains why every outbreak of revival at Asbury University has happened in February or March; they coincide with the Collegiate Day of Prayer. I'm also sure it's no accident that the renewal/revival at Asbury is set to end on next Thursday with the Collegiate Day of Prayer.

On the National Collegiate Day of Prayer website there's a video featuring Francis Chan, an outspoken supporter of the NAR/INC, Roman Catholicism and ecumenist if ever there was one. This same video was posted on YouTube two months ago, long before Asbury even started.

I agree with many that the next generation need a solid grounding in the faith; but more than that they need a solid grounding in the truth, God's word; not the NAR/INC or ecumenism.

soberxp · Feb 19, 2023

I think the church should always grow, we can't measure the present by the past,
and Criticism doesn't change anything. Perhaps you can go directly to the person in charge of the church and talk about your concerns, expressing your hope that they will only serve for God not something else.Use gentle words to express their shortcomings.And remind them/him that your opinion is well-meaning.

I often remind myself if I am in such a situation.
Matthew
7:3 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:4 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
7:5 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I don't know if you understand one thing, it's easy to see/find other people's problems, but it's hard to see/find your own.

ResidentAlien · Feb 19, 2023

soberxp said:

I think the church should always grow, we can't measure the present by the past,
and Criticism doesn't change anything. Perhaps you can go directly to the person in charge of the church and talk about your concerns, expressing your hope that they will only serve for God not something else.Use gentle words to express their shortcomings.And remind them/him that your opinion is well-meaning.

I often remind myself if I am in such a situation.
Matthew
7:3 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:4 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
7:5 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I don't know if you understand one thing, it's easy to see other people's problems, but it's hard to see your own.

Sorry if I killed your buzz. Truth is a lot more important to me than any buzz.

soberxp · Feb 19, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

To be honest, his concerns have always been my concerns. In the case of churches in China, most people are elderly.

I think he's quite right to be concerned, personally I don't mind the so-called Catholics, you might think they worship Mary, they just believe that the prayer though Mary are better communicated to God.

soberxp · Feb 19, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

It's okay. You have absolute freedom of speech with me. I can understand your point of view, I might have been the same as you before.

ResidentAlien · Feb 19, 2023

soberxp said:

Okay, I get you now.

soberxp · Feb 19, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

Few people understand me, and it's also hard for me to understand others, but if I ever did, it's easy for me to understand someone.

Personally, I used to like to find out the problems of the church, regardless of whether these problems existed or not, finally I only found myself was impetuous/fickleness/flippancy
, inner inability to calm down, perhaps can be described as rebellion.

When I realized my problem this time, I went to see the church again, and it seemed that has less problems.

I accept that there are problems in the church, but I don't think blaming is a good way to solve it.

This is just my personal opinion.

Locoponydirtman · Feb 19, 2023

I dont know what Francis Chan has to do with the event of Asbery? Hopefully nothing.
I have no problem with people, college students worshiping and praying. If that is what is happening, great.
I do have a problem with the NAR phonies attempting to glom on to it and co-opt it for their cause.
I heard portions of the sermon that began this event, very convicting very law heavy. I didnt hear any gospel. Note, I didnt hear any, its possible that the gospel was preached and i just didn't hear that portion.
I also heard attendies confessing their sins and repenting this is also very good. I didnt hear any gospel, that those sins are forgiven. That dont mean it didn't happen; it just means I didnt hear it.
I think other people are turning this into something its not. Traveling hours upon hours to go be in the presence of God is not necessary. God is present every where and you can be in His presence by worshiping Him and praying and reading His word. Jesus is present where ever his word and sacraments are ministered.

Any way; i hope these folks are worshiping God, repenting of their sins, and recieving forgiveness, and that it changes there lives forever. I also hope they dont allow the NAR people to spoil the event.

ResidentAlien · Feb 19, 2023

Locoponydirtman said:

The Collegiate Day of Prayer is the common thread between Francis Chan and Asbury. The whole thing at Asbury was obviously designed to coincide with the CDP. Francis Chan was chosen to make a promotional video for the CDP's website. Of all the people they could have chosen, why an NAR/ICN promoter and ecumenist? College students are their target audience; and it seems clear to me the people behind the scenes of this thing want to influence them to become ecumenists. Others may not see it, or don't want to see it; but to me it's obvious. All I can say is wait and see.

Locoponydirtman · Feb 19, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

Oh, well ...

Interestingly enough we discussed an old testament revival in sunday school today. Something of note is that if you notice each old testament revival begins after many years of the people being in ergregious sin and idolatry. Was Asbury college in that much idolatrous sin that revival was necessary. Another thing that usually happens is they return to God for some years, its also usually but not always after a wickes leader is deposed.

End of story, I hope at least some of the folks there are in actual revival, and that this is not a "strange fire" thing.
Hopefull God will still convert many

ResidentAlien · Feb 19, 2023

I'm sure God will use this event to influence some kids for the better. He can use anything.

Blain · Feb 19, 2023

I just recently learned of this happening and normally I would be skeptical of it's validation but the thing is they are all just worshipping God and that is the key factor.
Praise and worship to God is the key to opening the door to his inner circle the depths of himself his power it is the one tool we have that makes the demons shriek and cover their ears aside from the name of Jesus.

When we are facing hardship in life and we don't know how to deal with it worship him and sing praise songs I promise this brings him close and you will see more and more of him the more you spend your days worshipping him.

evyaniy · Feb 19, 2023

find it interesting that Asbury means "fortified position or place." Also, the town is Wilmore which may be self explanatory as in Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Echos of the "Our Father".

evyaniy · Feb 19, 2023

it sure appears that lots of people are praying, singing, praising, believing and repenting. many after traveling for a long ways. it has to be good for the people who are being changed by it there and everywhere. it is a very hopeful sign at the least and hopefully a whole lot more. it is ultimately up to YAH if He is willing to grant us repentance at this late stage of our disbelief and rebellion. He can certainly do that though if He chooses to have mercy on us. His mercy endures forever it says. He can change hearts and people have been praying for that fervently.

evyaniy · Feb 20, 2023

the young man who preached leading up to the revival used this passage from Romans 12

9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil. Cling to that which is good. 10 In love of the brothers be tenderly affectionate to one another; in honor prefer one another, 11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving Adonai, 12 rejoicing in hope, enduring in troubles, continuing steadfastly in prayer, 13 contributing to the needs of the holy ones, and given to hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless, and don’t curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice. Weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Don’t set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Don’t be wise in your own conceits. 17 Repay no one evil for evil. Respect what is honorable in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as it is up to you, be at peace with all men. 19 Don’t seek revenge yourselves, beloved, but give place to YAH’s wrath. For it is written, “Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay, says Adonai.” 20 Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him.
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
for in doing so, you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
21 Don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

He called these instructions, commandments. There are many other passages in the Epistles that tell us how to live as believers. He explained how believers are expected to live to a higher standard and how we fall short of that and need the love of the Father and Son in our hearts for it to be possible.

mustaphadrink · Feb 20, 2023

IsaiahA said:

Interesting that when God decides to do something man cannot control it is always suspect but we don't challenge anything that is man-made and directed and obviously not from God.

Your comment above is rather sweeping and judgmental as there are myriads of different expressions of Pentecosal, holiness, and charismatic experiences and it is totally wrong to judge one by the other.

studentoftheword · Feb 20, 2023

Here is the thing -----

evyaniy said:

I say -------So if they are just preaching on LOVE____ and not preaching the first Commandment ---to AGAPE GOD FIRST ---then go to the 2nd command which is AGAPE your neighbour ------then I would be very weary of what the revival is doing ------

You cannot do any of what is posted above here Without receiving Jesus as your Lord and saviour and having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit---Agape is a fruit of the Spirit ------without the Holy Spirit in you ----your away from God -------

This is the first part of Romans 12 ---which was not preached --------and then it goes to love in action ----which is what was preached ------

A Living Sacrifice
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Humble Service in the Body of Christ
3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a] faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[b] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Love in Action---starts at verse 9 ------

So if there is no preaching on believe in Jesus and receive Jesus in your heart ---and only preaching on the Love of God ------their meeting is futile -----

So if you hear someone at the revival preaching you must receive Jesus in your heart first and only then would I say --this is from God

Many Ministers today in the Midstream Churches preach on God is a God Of Love and His love is all you need -----False Doctrine ------

Test the Spirits ---FOLKS ----know what is the truth ------

Testing the spirits and the Asbury 'revival'

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