Ukraine the bad guy?

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
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Brush up on your history please. NATO (aka USA) has been the aggressor. Whatever form of government the Soviets have is not the issue, if you cannot see that Ukraine has been the bait then you really do not understand the geopolitics since the end of the cold war.

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Remind me again of the NATO nations that have invaded Russia. I'm going on 72. I must have missed something somewhere. THE US was so afraid of annoying Russia that they would not allow "hot pursuit" over the border between North and South Vietnam. It was well known that the Russians were helping North Vietnam. Politicians sacrificed pilots on the altar of not risking war with Russia. Hardly an attitude of aggression. If it had been up to me, I would have taken the opportunity to weaken the Russian forces and make them think twice about supporting communist ventures elsewhere.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
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Yeah, I mean, people will say it's a "slippery slope" kind of thing, but why even mess around; this isn't a ski resort. But I guess we are supposed to wait until we are at defcon 1 to start the conversation about escalation maybe being a bad idea.
it seems as if america wants escalation....
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,927
2,297
113
Remind me again of the NATO nations that have invaded Russia. I'm going on 72. I must have missed something somewhere. THE US was so afraid of annoying Russia that they would not allow "hot pursuit" over the border between North and South Vietnam. It was well known that the Russians were helping North Vietnam. Politicians sacrificed pilots on the altar of not risking war with Russia. Hardly an attitude of aggression. If it had been up to me, I would have taken the opportunity to weaken the Russian forces and make them think twice about supporting communist ventures elsewhere.

You seem to be missing the point. To Russia NATO is the aggressor, NATO inches closer to the Russian border.

It is obvious to the objective eye that USA - Military Industrial Complex is seeking a regime change... and it is not the first time, and of course there is always tons of profits made by the war machine along the way.

Wake up!
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,163
113
You seem to be missing the point. To Russia NATO is the aggressor, NATO inches closer to the Russian border.

It is obvious to the objective eye that USA - Military Industrial Complex is seeking a regime change... and it is not the first time, and of course there is always tons of profits made by the war machine along the way.

Wake up!
Do you even know what aggression is? Do you know why NATO was formed in the first place? Why would the military complex want regime change? They would be delighted to go to war. Ukraine is a gold mine for them. I suggest that you learn some history instead of displaying your ignorance on international affairs.

There was a brief period when Russia appeared to be moving towards a democratic and free nation. NATO breathed a collective sigh of relief and drifted off to sleep. When Russia's economy began to take off, thanks to oil and gas, they began to rearm. Russia flexed its muscles in 2014. NATO did NOTHING. Putin imagined that the same would happen this time around. NATO still sits on its hands and does nothing except wake up and rearm. As is prudent when a megalomaniac is attacking a nearby neighbour.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
Do you even know what aggression is? Do you know why NATO was formed in the first place? Why would the military complex want regime change? They would be delighted to go to war. Ukraine is a gold mine for them. I suggest that you learn some history instead of displaying your ignorance on international affairs.

There was a brief period when Russia appeared to be moving towards a democratic and free nation. NATO breathed a collective sigh of relief and drifted off to sleep. When Russia's economy began to take off, thanks to oil and gas, they began to rearm. Russia flexed its muscles in 2014. NATO did NOTHING. Putin imagined that the same would happen this time around. NATO still sits on its hands and does nothing except wake up and rearm. As is prudent when a megalomaniac is attacking a nearby neighbour.
The Old Zelensky
Here you go man. The old Zelensky loved Russians. Loved the Russian language. Believed in Crimean independence.
So what happened?
Cocaine addiction happened (making him a perfect candidate for spooky recruitment)
Massive $$$bribes$$$ happened. Z sold out his people.
Death threats happened. Z is going to tow the line or else.

 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,778
6,743
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Putin is a thief. He wants to steal Ukraine by force and take all the wealth.
Really? That would never work. NATO, Europe and the US would put sanctions on them and the reward would never justify the cost.

Perhaps the plan is to change the world order so that this new alliance called BRICS would control the reserve currency and be the super power. The reason the US can send $100 billion so quickly to help defend Ukraine is because can print money and no one else can. When we print money it causes inflation, and that is painful, but it is born by the whole world. So the cost benefit is great, we pay 5% of the cost but get 100% of the benefit. Meanwhile the rest of the world pays 95% of the cost with 0 benefit. It used to be the US was a responsible steward but no longer.

Russia can utterly destroy the US, the problem is they would become a pariah to the whole world, so what they need first before anything else is proof that the US is criminally guilty of bioweapons research that has unleashed Covid and the vaccine on the world, or some other equally heinous crime, and the also need the whole world to see that the US declared war on them and so they have no choice but to defend themselves.

They claim to have the evidence of criminal activity in Ukraine and I believe it, after all why are we sending $100 billion and doing whatever Zelensky asks? There must be some big reason for that. They have also made it very clear there are certain red lines that if the US crosses it will be viewed as a declaration of war.

Meanwhile they have parked a destroyer with hypersonic nuclear missiles near Washington DC, off the coast of Bermuda. They have submarines off both of our coasts. Iran has a destroyer off the coast of Brazil and China has many ships off our western coast.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
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Putin is a thief. He wants to steal Ukraine by force and take all the wealth.
Actually yes aquiring the wealth and resources is definitely in play. There is oil in the East Ukraine and also lots offshore of Crimea and surrounding waters.

However all of this is post ex facto of the Ukrainian government coup and subsequent pre-planned NATO military buildup and intentional provocations against the Russians in the Donbass.......which forced Putins hand.

The spoils of war part of the game. Somebody's going to get them when it's all over with.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,271
1,050
113
Here's Macgregor's take on the drone "collision" in the Russian ADIZ and some other things. I feel like he is right about most things; except what he said about the Navy: even if we can't afford to send out the Navy, we will probably still send them out undermanned, undermaintenanced, and underequipped. We'll run our ships and our sailors' lives into the ground before we decide to keep the Navy at home.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
"I’m Telling You, He Did It": Seymour Hersh Blames Biden For Nord Stream Attack
"I’m Telling You, He Did It": Seymour Hersh Blames Biden For Nord Stream Attack | ZeroHedge

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh told the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. that Joe Biden made the decision to blow up Russia’s Nord Stream pipelines because he saw being a war president as giving him a better chance at re-election.

Last month, Hersh published a report asserting that the pipelines were destroyed by the US as part of a covert operation.

According to Hersh’s sources, the explosives were planted in June 2022 by US Navy divers under the guise of the BALTOPS 22 NATO exercise and were detonated three months later with a remote signal sent by a sonar buoy.

One source told Hersh that the plotters knew the covert operation was an “act of war,” with some in the CIA and State Department warning, “Don’t do this. It’s stupid and will be a political nightmare if it comes out.”

Last week, the New York Times reported that a “pro-Ukrainian group” had sabotaged the pipelines, using a team with as few as six people involved in the mission, contradicting previous assumptions that only a state would have had the resources to carry out the operation.

According to Hersh, referring to Biden, “He did it. He did it, I’m telling you, he did it," adding, "The Biden game is to wait it out and never say yes.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,778
6,743
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"I’m Telling You, He Did It": Seymour Hersh Blames Biden For Nord Stream Attack
"I’m Telling You, He Did It": Seymour Hersh Blames Biden For Nord Stream Attack | ZeroHedge

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh told the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. that Joe Biden made the decision to blow up Russia’s Nord Stream pipelines because he saw being a war president as giving him a better chance at re-election.

Last month, Hersh published a report asserting that the pipelines were destroyed by the US as part of a covert operation.

According to Hersh’s sources, the explosives were planted in June 2022 by US Navy divers under the guise of the BALTOPS 22 NATO exercise and were detonated three months later with a remote signal sent by a sonar buoy.

One source told Hersh that the plotters knew the covert operation was an “act of war,” with some in the CIA and State Department warning, “Don’t do this. It’s stupid and will be a political nightmare if it comes out.”

Last week, the New York Times reported that a “pro-Ukrainian group” had sabotaged the pipelines, using a team with as few as six people involved in the mission, contradicting previous assumptions that only a state would have had the resources to carry out the operation.

According to Hersh, referring to Biden, “He did it. He did it, I’m telling you, he did it," adding, "The Biden game is to wait it out and never say yes.
No one more "pro Ukrainian" than Biden.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
Actually yes aquiring the wealth and resources is definitely in play. There is oil in the East Ukraine and also lots offshore of Crimea and surrounding waters.

However all of this is post ex facto of the Ukrainian government coup and subsequent pre-planned NATO military buildup and intentional provocations against the Russians in the Donbass.......which forced Putins hand.

The spoils of war part of the game. Somebody's going to get them when it's all over with.
"ex post facto"