Salvation is for the Whole World
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No problem, ForestGreenCook. My understanding is that from/by being saved/born again in this life, we are completely and fully saved, but the actualization - the final realization of that salvation - when everyone is judged by God on the last day, we shall be held harmless due to having been saved in this life. No one will be held harmless unless they were saved. I didn't mean to imply there is a second salvation if that's how you took it, instead, it is just the final act of the one. Nevertheless, the Bible does refer to that final act as being saved in the day of the Lord. The point I was trying to make was that when the Bible refers to becoming "saved" as a result of "calling on the name of the Lord", instead of calling upon His by being saved, the "saved" in view is of the last day - otherwise, it would mean that in order to become saved one would first have to first call upon the name of the Lord( our work), which we know cannot be the case. In other words, once saved in this life, our salvation is a done deal, but nevertheless, we will all still have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and each accordingly found not guilty or guilty, with those saved to be found not guilty.
Whew, I didn't do a good job explaining this as it is a little complicated because the Bible used same word to mean different things, but hopefully, you'll be able to see it in the following verses. If not, I'll try to clarify.
How would you understand them?
[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[Rom 10:13 KJV] 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[2Co 5:10 KJV] 10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.
[Rom 14:10 KJV]
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[2Pe 2:9 KJV]
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[2Pe 3:7 KJV]
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[1Jo 4:17 KJV]
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
It wasn't so much a decision to believe as it was a surrender to God. I had been seeking for
years and, much to the chagrin of my rebellious heart, He was the One Who kept showing up .
Years before He had shown me His unconditional love when I was at a very low point in my life.
That meant a lot to me, perhaps even to the point of helping to save my life at the time. He let
me know I was forgiven, that He understood all the reasons why and how I had ended up in
such a broken and wounded and hopeless state, unable to forgive myself.
years and, much to the chagrin of my rebellious heart, He was the One Who kept showing up .
Years before He had shown me His unconditional love when I was at a very low point in my life.
That meant a lot to me, perhaps even to the point of helping to save my life at the time. He let
me know I was forgiven, that He understood all the reasons why and how I had ended up in
such a broken and wounded and hopeless state, unable to forgive myself.
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It is through the preaching that the hearing comes...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Word of God produces hearing and hearing produces faith.
No one has any problem with that. From there it gets messy. Do we choose? Has God already chosen? Do we choose independent of God? Does God so work in us that the choice is actually His? Is it a combination of the two?
But preaching will always be necessary because God has ordained that through the foolishness of preaching His salvation will be wrought.
Word of God produces hearing and hearing produces faith.
No one has any problem with that. From there it gets messy. Do we choose? Has God already chosen? Do we choose independent of God? Does God so work in us that the choice is actually His? Is it a combination of the two?
But preaching will always be necessary because God has ordained that through the foolishness of preaching His salvation will be wrought.
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To "contend" for the faith means to fight on behalf of the faith.
Those Jude was addressing were already of the saved, so his intention was not to motivate them to acquire faith but to fight for it.
[Jde 1:1 KJV] 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:
The point was that Christ was completely faithful and obedient to the Father, and Rev. 2:13, regardless of what you may think it means, demonstrates that faith existed within Him - His faith. You just shouldn't ignore nor misappropriate a verse because it demonstrates something you don't like or don't agree with. Look at Gal 2:16. Here again we are informed of Christ's faith.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Heb 12:2 KJV]
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
How is it that you think a verse of scripture is only good for "opinion"?
[2Ti 3:16 KJV] 16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Those Jude was addressing were already of the saved, so his intention was not to motivate them to acquire faith but to fight for it.
[Jde 1:1 KJV] 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:
The point was that Christ was completely faithful and obedient to the Father, and Rev. 2:13, regardless of what you may think it means, demonstrates that faith existed within Him - His faith. You just shouldn't ignore nor misappropriate a verse because it demonstrates something you don't like or don't agree with. Look at Gal 2:16. Here again we are informed of Christ's faith.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Heb 12:2 KJV]
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
How is it that you think a verse of scripture is only good for "opinion"?
[2Ti 3:16 KJV] 16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I did too!! But lately I've been wondering... (that's always a bad sign )
I'm going through an Ephesians teaching thing, and the guy pointed out that we are a tri-unity being - body, soul spirit- but that we are "dead" spiritually and go through life living according to the desires of the body (flesh) and soul (mind/emotions):
Eph. 2:1-3
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
So, furthermore, he contends that the "prince of the power of the air" is also active in our lives... him being the dominant spiritual force in our lives? IDK
So, is that the spirituality that I was considering way back then?
)I'm going through an Ephesians teaching thing, and the guy pointed out that we are a tri-unity being - body, soul spirit- but that we are "dead" spiritually and go through life living according to the desires of the body (flesh) and soul (mind/emotions):
Eph. 2:1-3
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
So, furthermore, he contends that the "prince of the power of the air" is also active in our lives... him being the dominant spiritual force in our lives? IDK
So, is that the spirituality that I was considering way back then?
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Satan is the counterfeiter of truth, and he’s been refining this copy of truth since the Jews who “believed” in the book of Acts. Those who taught faith plus the law (works).
Then came Pelagianism, semi pelagianism, Arminianism and now reformed Arminianism, each one looking more like the true gospel of grace but never letting go of one thing. Man’s ability (works).
A false gospel will always retain the notion that man is able in some way, that’s how you know it is of Satan.
Then came Pelagianism, semi pelagianism, Arminianism and now reformed Arminianism, each one looking more like the true gospel of grace but never letting go of one thing. Man’s ability (works).
A false gospel will always retain the notion that man is able in some way, that’s how you know it is of Satan.
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Nope, that is NOT what 1 Cor 2:14 is teaching. Did you not read the preceding verses?
[1Co 2:10, 12-14 KJV]
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ...
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[1Co 2:10, 12-14 KJV]
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ...
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
No problem.
God didn't change things, God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, nor to even touch it or they would die - so they did it to themselves, and to us. They were the only people ever to have truly free will. Because Adam and Eve did eat of the tree, they, and everyone else afterwards were placed under the power of law making everyone spiritually dead because all by nature are sinners. I believe the fruit of that tree, brought to life law, and with it an inherent desire within man to love their works and to try make themselves righteous before God by their works.
[Gen 2:17 KJV] 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
[Rom 5:18-20 KJV]
18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
God didn't change things, God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, nor to even touch it or they would die - so they did it to themselves, and to us. They were the only people ever to have truly free will. Because Adam and Eve did eat of the tree, they, and everyone else afterwards were placed under the power of law making everyone spiritually dead because all by nature are sinners. I believe the fruit of that tree, brought to life law, and with it an inherent desire within man to love their works and to try make themselves righteous before God by their works.
[Gen 2:17 KJV] 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
[Rom 5:18-20 KJV]
18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
I was skipping around Youtube today. As I have said, I don't go by labels. I understand people have labeled all these POVs. But as I watched a Youtube discussion on the subject today, the person said he wasn't in either camp. So clearly there are places where things do get messy. But I don't think anyone here has said they save themselves, or that works save you. Still it has been repeated again and again as if it is fact.
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