Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

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Dec 21, 2020
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What?

Heb 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

2Ki 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
I explained it.

Also, if Elisha and the prophets had thought that Elijah was taken to heaven where God is, they would not have bothered to go looking for him.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
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John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
What?

2Ki 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Both verses are in the Bible but they seem to contradict each other. So what does that mean? I know Paul talked about a third heaven which I don't know much about either.

So what does this all mean? Anyone know?
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Okay let's go a little deeper shall we.
I'm trying to get you to see how you and Jesus share a certain weakness.

"God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God."

In what way was Jesus weak and made sin for us? 2 Corinthians 5:21

F2F
Jesus was not "made sin." Sin is disobedience. It's not possible for a man to become sin. The word is hamartia, and while it can mean "sin," it also means "sin offering." Jesus Christ became the once and for all sin offering.
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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@cv5

Genesis 5:23

"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years"

Interesting in the way God took him...Paul adds the ellipsis: "he was not found" in Heb. 11:5.

Have you noticed the importance of those words?

F2F
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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Jesus was not "made sin." Sin is disobedience. It's not possible for a man to become sin. The word is hamartia, and while it can mean "sin," it also means "sin offering." Jesus Christ became the once and for all sin offering.
Agree, in what way was Jesus "made" a sin offering, which also made him weak and was crucified in that weakness whereby we are weak in him?
If you both follow the Apostles train of thought you will arrive at a place you may not find palatable.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Both verses are in the Bible but they seem to contradict each other. So what does that mean?
There are three heavens spoken about in the Bible. Heaven meaning the sky (think "birds of heaven"), heaven where the stars are, and heaven where God is. Elijah was taken into the sky and moved from one place to another to underscore that he was done being the head prophet and Elisha was taking over.

I know Paul talked about a third heaven which I don't know much about either.

So what does this all mean? Anyone know?
In my understanding, Paul got revelation (he didn't literally go there..) about what the future will be like. The new heaven and earth in Rev 21.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Agree, in what way was Jesus "made" a sin offering,
He is the Passover Lamb of God. He died for us, in our place.

which also made him weak and was crucified in that weakness whereby we are weak in him?
If you both follow the Apostles train of thought you will arrive at a place you may not find palatable.
You talk in riddles sometimes. Why don't you say what you mean?
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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Both verses are in the Bible but they seem to contradict each other. So what does that mean? I know Paul talked about a third heaven which I don't know much about either.

So what does this all mean? Anyone know?
The third heaven is speaking to a third age of goverence in the Earth - Heaven denotes rulership. Paul was taken in a vision to the Kingdom age when God all and in all....not a lot is written or known of such an age.

Re Elijah being taken into Heaven this does not mean he went to God's dwelling place - I suggest he also was buried by God's angel.

We are not told.

F2F
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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He is the Passover Lamb of God. He died for us, in our place.


You talk in riddles sometimes. Why don't you say what you mean?
You say he is our "passover Lamb" - what did he passover for himself and for you?

This is not difficult...

What is the weakness things known to mankind?
 
Dec 21, 2020
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The third heaven is speaking to a third age of goverence in the Earth - Heaven denotes rulership. Paul was taken in a vision to the Kingdom age when God all and in all....not a lot is written or known of such an age.

Re Elijah being taken into Heaven this does not mean he went to God's dwelling place - I suggest he also was buried by God's angel.
Why?

We are not told.
You're right! :)
 
Dec 21, 2020
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You say he is our "passover Lamb"
He was God's Passover Lamb.

- what did he passover for himself and for you?
Jesus Christ gave his sinless life as the only acceptable sacrifice for sin.

This is not difficult...

What is the weakness things known to mankind?
More riddles? Why don't you say what you mean.
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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Why?
You're right! :)
Romans 6:23 Divine Decree exempt by no-one - totally non negotiable!
Romans 5:12 Divine Decree exempt by no-one - again totally non negotiable!
To speak against it would place God in a compromised position indeed.
F2F
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Romans 6:23 Divine Decree exempt by no-one - totally non negotiable!
Romans 5:12 Divine Decree exempt by no-one - again totally non negotiable!
To speak against it would place God in a compromised position indeed.
F2F
What?
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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He was God's Passover Lamb.
provided for us...God doesnt need to passover anything!
Jesus Christ gave his sinless life as the only acceptable sacrifice for sin.
What made him acceptable?
Was he like you in every way? Did he have your nature? Was he tempted in every way like you are? Or do you believe he was something else?
Whatever you say...you and him share the same weakness and are given the same trail.

Galatians 5:24-26 – Keeping in step with the Spirit. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Same flesh?
Same death?
will you be given the same resurrection?

What weakness was Jesus crucified through? Do I hear you say a nature condemn to death?
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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Wages of sin is death.
Death passed on to all for all have died.
Enoch died it's just he didnt see it coming as you and I do.
Elijah possibly the same.
Moses saw his death for he was told of its coming ;)
 

F2F

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Dec 12, 2022
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@cv5

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. Hebrews 2:17

I don't think you believe this verse...am I right?

You don't appear to understand the true nature of Christ your Messiah.

Happy to be proven wrong.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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What made him acceptable?
He was without sin.

Was he like you in every way?
Yes, except for the sin nature all the rest of us got from Adam.

Did he have your nature?
He was a man, with a human nature. He is the "second man," the "last Adam." He was just like Adam was before Adam sinned.

Was he tempted in every way like you are?
Yep.

Or do you believe he was something else?
Whatever you say...you and him share the same weakness and are given the same trail.
Jesus did not have a sin nature. I don't know what you mean by "given the same trail."

Galatians 5:24-26 – Keeping in step with the Spirit. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Same flesh?
Same death?
will you be given the same resurrection?

What weakness was Jesus crucified through? Do I hear you say a nature condemn to death?
I wish you would explain yourself better.

But we will receive bodies like Jesus' body.[/quote]
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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The Bible does not say.
because he struck the rock twice rather than speak to the rock as God told him , if you willing

“And there was no water for the congregation: and they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron…….( the people complain against them ) And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭20:2, 6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so

“And Moses went up from the plains of Moab unto the mountain of Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, that is over against Jericho. And the LORD shewed him all the land of Gilead, unto Dan, and all Naphtali, and the land of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah, unto the utmost sea, and the south, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, unto Zoar. And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither. So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭34:1-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Several correlating and relevant other verses but you see Moses disobeyed Gods command and sin is death. Because of this ordination Moses wasn’t pardoned for that

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions:

for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law is Gods word , but it’s coming through the angels like at the burning bush

“And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or like the unforgiving angel that led then through the desert and wouldn’t even forgive Moses one frustration and disobedience God said “ speak to the rock “ and Moses “ struck the rock twice “ and the angel who had rule over those people would not pardon anyone’s transgression it’s why every sinner under Moses law died and didn’t rise up again like Jesus he never sinned but Moses had priorly killed a man before called and then after he disobeyed just the one time there the law can’t save even e mediator


disposition of no pardon because after God spoke the commandments the first said do not make images to worship and serve the first thing they did was build a golden cow to worship and bow to and call thier god