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The Word states Jesus died and was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) before God raised him. It would not be necessary for someone to be raised if they are alive.
He did not show himself to the imprisoned spirits until after he was raised.
People being in Abrahams bosom is fallacy ....it was a parable.
He did not show himself to the imprisoned spirits until after he was raised.
People being in Abrahams bosom is fallacy ....it was a parable.
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1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached G2784 unto the spirits in prison;
Actually.....the correct term is PROCLAIM. Jesus is not preaching the gospel.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2784/kjv/tr/0-1/
Jesus is proclaiming His victory to fallen angels in Tartarus.
2Pe 2:4
For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved,
By which also he went and preached G2784 unto the spirits in prison;
Actually.....the correct term is PROCLAIM. Jesus is not preaching the gospel.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2784/kjv/tr/0-1/
Jesus is proclaiming His victory to fallen angels in Tartarus.
2Pe 2:4
For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved,
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Just wondering... how do you get the idea that Christ went to Tartarus from that verse?
It does seem to even imply that thought?
I don't see any reason for Jesus to need to go to the place of the wicked...? Nor any Scripture that suggests that He did.
What's difficult with discussions about this subject is that people don't often clarify their personal understanding of the different places that the "dead" go to. Shaol, Hades, the Grave, Gehenna, Abraham's Bosom, Paradise, etc., etc. And that's not extraordinarily surprising to me because I have yet to meet anyone who can explain them all and their differences/similarities. From my limited experience, the information on each of these things is ambiguous, at best.
It does seem to even imply that thought?
I don't see any reason for Jesus to need to go to the place of the wicked...? Nor any Scripture that suggests that He did.
What's difficult with discussions about this subject is that people don't often clarify their personal understanding of the different places that the "dead" go to. Shaol, Hades, the Grave, Gehenna, Abraham's Bosom, Paradise, etc., etc. And that's not extraordinarily surprising to me because I have yet to meet anyone who can explain them all and their differences/similarities. From my limited experience, the information on each of these things is ambiguous, at best.
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Greetings in Christ, CV5, and good to see some of the old names still posting here.
About these two passages, I believe you are convoluting two distinctly separate teachings from the New Testament here.
1 Peter 3:19 speaks of the harrowing of Hades, and when Jesus delivered the captives out and many of them resurrected with him and were seen in the streets of Jerusalem.
2 Peter 2:4 however addresses the angels who sinned in Genesis 6:1-4, and who were cast down into outer darkness to await their final judgment.
My problem with the notion that Jesus "proclaimed" any message to the fallen angels is partly because the specific context in which it appears in 1 Peter 3, which I can get into later. But it also kinda strikes me as a bit strange the notion that he would notify them of all people. Seems like there would be no need, sort of like if he just wanted to rub their noses in it or something (not to be facetious, Lol).
I'll wait to respond till after you are on computer, but I think you may find that once the full passage in 1 Peter 3 is treated, only the answer given in Post #8 (and I think also in Post #3) makes sense.
God bless, and good to see you again.
Vindicator
About these two passages, I believe you are convoluting two distinctly separate teachings from the New Testament here.
1 Peter 3:19 speaks of the harrowing of Hades, and when Jesus delivered the captives out and many of them resurrected with him and were seen in the streets of Jerusalem.
2 Peter 2:4 however addresses the angels who sinned in Genesis 6:1-4, and who were cast down into outer darkness to await their final judgment.
My problem with the notion that Jesus "proclaimed" any message to the fallen angels is partly because the specific context in which it appears in 1 Peter 3, which I can get into later. But it also kinda strikes me as a bit strange the notion that he would notify them of all people. Seems like there would be no need, sort of like if he just wanted to rub their noses in it or something (not to be facetious, Lol).
I'll wait to respond till after you are on computer, but I think you may find that once the full passage in 1 Peter 3 is treated, only the answer given in Post #8 (and I think also in Post #3) makes sense.
God bless, and good to see you again.
Vindicator
Then Jesus would have been "proclaiming" to ALL OT departed human souls up to and including His own present day......thousands years later.
But no......when you see the specific TIME CONSTRAINED linkage to the flood you know that it is fallen Angels......every -single - time. The one and only very specifically delineated group.
But no......when you see the specific TIME CONSTRAINED linkage to the flood you know that it is fallen Angels......every -single - time. The one and only very specifically delineated group.
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Not those in Hell, no. There was a chasm between the two, and He only went to preach to those in Paradise, where He promised the thief on the right that he was going when he died.
Time constrained linkage to the flood... You might wanna expand on this a little further. I'm not sure what you are making reference to here.
But when you have time, since it is crucial to proper interpretation, give me a breakdown of the full passage in 1 Peter 3, and your exegesis. That's kinda where the rubber meets the road in this discussion.
Before the resurrection of Christ, paradise was in the heart of the earth. Jesus did not ascend until after his resurrection.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
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Ephesians 4:
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
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