As in the days of Noah... ALL flesh had CORRUPTED itself
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Hey PennEd...
PTL!
It seems to me that you're assuming that angels are the sons of God, yet Heb 1 makes three statements that would eliminate angels from being sons of God, but rather in vs 14: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation.
So, if it wasn't angels being referred to as the sons of God, couldn't Adam and Eve had children before they fell. Animals are innocent and are still able to reproduce. If Adam and Eve bore children, then they would have been like Adam before the fall with the Holy Spirit still dwelling in them and therefore, they really are the only ones that even might be eligible to be called, "the sons of God," especially as a comparison with those who were born after Adam fell, imparting a sin nature to them; when they, like us, are born without the Holy Spirit indwelling them. The genealogies say that, Adam who was the son of God.
Heb 1: 5-7 KJV "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be unto him a Father, and he shall be to me a son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, and let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."
We're also told that angels do not marry and we'll be like them in the next life, where we're spirits as the angels are now. So, it's another leap into the unknown, to say that spirits can mate with women, even when we know that we will not do so in our resurrection, spirit bodies.
imo... lol
No thanks. And yiikes at doing that. It's an open board and I have no intention of ever reading through posts from years ago. But I am willing to refrain from responding to your lengthy topics. I always try to get along with others by having a thick skin for myself, while striving to be sensitive to others. And since I'm no more important than anyone else, I'll no longer peruse your aged topics. From your tone, I suspect you'd approve.
PTL!
PTL!
That's an interesting one. I know this guy in the JW's (about who I've commented in other places) who believes in Nephilim as part of the results of the fall, thinking that evil angels took human form and intermarried. I had a hard time taking him seriously, because I'd worked in an after school job at the public library and the supervisor had been a self-described witch. She also facilitated the book group at school, and I read Katherine Kurtz' "The Daryani Chronicles in it, which had the same plot, but which is a lot lighter than the Bible.
Energy manipulism aka energetics? I'll tell you what I think of that. It's better no to try to tell angels what to do. Those kinds of people see light as energy and angels as beings of light.
Very clearly men did not mate on any level with fallen angels.
God has never called an angel Son, so Christ is greater.
Biblical Text:
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again,
“I will be a Father to Him
And He shall be a Son to Me”?
God has never called an angel Son, so Christ is greater.
Biblical Text:
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again,
“I will be a Father to Him
And He shall be a Son to Me”?
True - Christ is greater. However, this text does not speak directly to the angel-mating-with-human issue. It only indicates that the angels were not begotten of God.
In other words, Jesus was a Son of God - begotten of God. (Please understand the contextual use of 'a'.)
An angel mating with a human is an altogether different thing...
But fallen angels mated with human women before the Flood. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment (2 Peter 2:4)... And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)
I typed "men" by mistake, having stated this no they did not "mate" before or after the flood.
So you are telling me that fallen angels >>>>>> "demons' are being called "sons of God"
But God only says that He will destroy MAN who he created, He does not state they were demon-men.
God set the parameters for reproduction in Genesis chapter one, and no one, and no thing can reproduce outside of His plan.
You are assuming that demons and fallen angels are the same. There is NO Biblical support to suggest that.
*** Sigh***
Apparently it's necessary to post AGAIN the CONCLUSIVE Biblical evidence that Fallen angels did in fact mate with human women, producing a hybrid human breed called the nephilim.
So from the beginning:
Man was tempted and fell in the Garden.
God then made the first prophecy concerning Jesus with the Seed of the woman crushing the serpents head.
But many people miss that God mentions another seed in that passage.
Genesis 3
5 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
From that moment on, Satan has sought to thwart that prophecy by "corrupting", or killing the human line from which Messiah would come.
And he was very nearly successful. (Now we know he can never truly succeed, but he thinks he can).
Genesis 6 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Wickedness and Judgment of Man
6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
That the text makes a CONTRAST between the sons of God, and humans is evident.
NO HUMAN is a son of God BEFORE Jesus' death and resurrection!
In fact, even the supposed GOOD guy, Seth, who's children are erroneously taught by many to be the "sons of God" in Genesis 6, was not Spiritually made in God's image. NO ONE IS until they are born again. Seth was made in fallen ADAM'S image. As are we all, until our new birth.
Genesis 5:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 And ADAM lived one hundred and thirty years, and BEGOT a son IN HIS OWN LIKENESS, AFTER HIS IMAGE, and named him Seth.
POST ADAMIC FALL!
Genesis 6 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Wickedness and Judgment of Man
6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
So defining who the "sons of God" are is really the whole ballgame, and ends any opposition to the fallen angels fact.
The term for sons of God is "bene elohim" and it is found in only one other Book of the Bible. It's in Job, and there really is no debate that in Job, it refers to Angels.
Before posting it, we should talk a bit about Angels. The word angel, simply means "messenger". It does not necessarily denote one, complete, race of beings. The Bible talks about ranks of angels, and arch-angels, and cherubim, etc.. What manner and type of "angels" left Heaven and sinned, or even assembled before God in Job, we simply don't know. But BOTH were a part of the "Angelic" Heavenly realm.
I'll just post one of the Job references:
Satan Attacks Job’s Character
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (BENE ELOHIM) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
It's the exact term used in Genesis 6. Conclusive all on it's own, but there's so much more.
The Wickedness and Judgment of Man
6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
So defining who the "sons of God" are is really the whole ballgame, and ends any opposition to the fallen angels fact.
The term for sons of God is "bene elohim" and it is found in only one other Book of the Bible. It's in Job, and there really is no debate that in Job, it refers to Angels.
Before posting it, we should talk a bit about Angels. The word angel, simply means "messenger". It does not necessarily denote one, complete, race of beings. The Bible talks about ranks of angels, and arch-angels, and cherubim, etc.. What manner and type of "angels" left Heaven and sinned, or even assembled before God in Job, we simply don't know. But BOTH were a part of the "Angelic" Heavenly realm.
I'll just post one of the Job references:
Satan Attacks Job’s Character
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (BENE ELOHIM) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
It's the exact term used in Genesis 6. Conclusive all on it's own, but there's so much more.
Feb 20, 2021
#6
Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
So what IS this wickedness and sin that caused God to scrub the world and start anew?
It can't be the sin we are all familiar with. Which is the breaking of the Law. Because that has gone on unabated since the Ark landed on Mt Ararat!
No. There was a SPECIFIC sin committed. And we are actually told what that sin is in this chapter.
Genesis 6:
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God LOOKED upon the earth, and INDEED it was CORRUPT; for ALL flesh had CORRUPTED THEIR WAY on the earth.
Corrupt- Blemished, Spoiled, Polluted
So ALL flesh had somehow corrupted itself, AND most of the animals. I believe this is more than them all being descendants of the Nephilim, although I'm sure many had the satanic genes.
We tend to think of the ancients as not much smarter than cavemen. NOTHING could be further from the truth. These people were brilliant. Close to the original creation of Adam. Evolution teaches that we are getting mentally and physically better as a world and species. NOT true. As time goes by we are weaker and weaker than our ancestors in every way except accumulated knowledge.
On top of that, they likely had first hand satanic knowledge of a myriad of subjects, including DNA manipulation.
I believe these people DID something to themselves and animals on a genetic level that so altered God's original Creation, that He had to utterly wipe them out.
THAT was THE sin God could not tolerate.
Except....
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations (FROM WHICH WE GET GENES). Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
So Noah had incorrupt GENES. As well as the selected animals.
Now Jesus tells us that in the last days this SAME kind of sin committed in Noah's days, will happen again.
And UNLESS these days are shortened, NO FLESH (uncorrupted) will be saved!
You'd have to live on a desert island not to know about the DNA manipulation (corrupting God's Creation) going on today, even IF you don't include the mRNA vaccine they want to pump into everyone.
#6
Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
So what IS this wickedness and sin that caused God to scrub the world and start anew?
It can't be the sin we are all familiar with. Which is the breaking of the Law. Because that has gone on unabated since the Ark landed on Mt Ararat!
No. There was a SPECIFIC sin committed. And we are actually told what that sin is in this chapter.
Genesis 6:
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God LOOKED upon the earth, and INDEED it was CORRUPT; for ALL flesh had CORRUPTED THEIR WAY on the earth.
Corrupt- Blemished, Spoiled, Polluted
So ALL flesh had somehow corrupted itself, AND most of the animals. I believe this is more than them all being descendants of the Nephilim, although I'm sure many had the satanic genes.
We tend to think of the ancients as not much smarter than cavemen. NOTHING could be further from the truth. These people were brilliant. Close to the original creation of Adam. Evolution teaches that we are getting mentally and physically better as a world and species. NOT true. As time goes by we are weaker and weaker than our ancestors in every way except accumulated knowledge.
On top of that, they likely had first hand satanic knowledge of a myriad of subjects, including DNA manipulation.
I believe these people DID something to themselves and animals on a genetic level that so altered God's original Creation, that He had to utterly wipe them out.
THAT was THE sin God could not tolerate.
Except....
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations (FROM WHICH WE GET GENES). Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
So Noah had incorrupt GENES. As well as the selected animals.
Now Jesus tells us that in the last days this SAME kind of sin committed in Noah's days, will happen again.
And UNLESS these days are shortened, NO FLESH (uncorrupted) will be saved!
You'd have to live on a desert island not to know about the DNA manipulation (corrupting God's Creation) going on today, even IF you don't include the mRNA vaccine they want to pump into everyone.
I want to address one of the supposedly big points the “sons of God in Genesis 6 are human” crowd like to bring up this verse:
Matthew 22:30
New King James Version
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God IN HEAVEN.
This verse actually supports that the Angels had sex and procreated with human women.
In fact, this is the exact reason why they are in chains in Tartarus right now.
Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Here Jude tells us these angels left their own “abode, or habitation” . They abandoned their heavenly bodies. The Greek word is “Oiketerion” .
This word is used only one other time in Scripture describing the heavenly body WE will receive upon our resurrection to be like the Angels IN HEAVEN.
2 Corinthians 5:2
New King James Version
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation (oiketerion) which is from heaven,
About as conclusive as you can get.
The sin the angels committed was of a sexual nature, NOT involving their heavenly bodies, NOT committed IN HEAVEN, resulting in imprisonment in the horrible place called Tartarus.
Matthew 22:30
New King James Version
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God IN HEAVEN.
This verse actually supports that the Angels had sex and procreated with human women.
In fact, this is the exact reason why they are in chains in Tartarus right now.
Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Here Jude tells us these angels left their own “abode, or habitation” . They abandoned their heavenly bodies. The Greek word is “Oiketerion” .
This word is used only one other time in Scripture describing the heavenly body WE will receive upon our resurrection to be like the Angels IN HEAVEN.
2 Corinthians 5:2
New King James Version
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation (oiketerion) which is from heaven,
About as conclusive as you can get.
The sin the angels committed was of a sexual nature, NOT involving their heavenly bodies, NOT committed IN HEAVEN, resulting in imprisonment in the horrible place called Tartarus.
In scripture, a son of God is a being that was created by God and was sinless in it's creation. Adam was a son of God (Luke 3:38). All the angels are sons of God as stated in Job. Fallen man can become a son of God only through the new birth. Man has to be made a new creature in Christ. And only then can man claim to be a son of God. However, Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. The sinless body in which Jesus lived literally came from God and placed in Mary.
HeIsHere, consider the possibility that there was a way for angels to do what is described in the first part of verse 6 in Jude - in order to mate with human women (Genesis 6:2,4) - and that demons are the disembodied souls of the 'illegitimate' children of these fallen angels.
Any further questions?
Job 2:1
Again there was a day H3117 when the sons H1121 of God H430 came H935 to present H3320 themselves before the LORD, H3068 and Satan H7854 came H935 also among H8432 them to present H3320 himself before the LORD. H3068
the sons
h1121
בְּנֵי בֵּן
bēn
of God
h430
הָֽאֱלֹהִים אֱלֹהִים'
ĕlōhîm
Job 2:1
Again there was a day H3117 when the sons H1121 of God H430 came H935 to present H3320 themselves before the LORD, H3068 and Satan H7854 came H935 also among H8432 them to present H3320 himself before the LORD. H3068
the sons
h1121
בְּנֵי בֵּן
bēn
of God
h430
הָֽאֱלֹהִים אֱלֹהִים'
ĕlōhîm