Should a Certain Amount of Debt Prevent A Person from Marrying? How Should It Be Handled?

[MsMediator]

think of the opposite: the higher the debt amount, the more responsibility when married. minds change their way of thinking after matrimony. people start thinking, "oh no, what did i do"? unless a spouse is super rich, getting married is a huge no-no when pre existing debt is in question.

For me, debt doesn't bother me as much if it is "good" debt. I know many people with student loans. Fortunately I made it a point to pay off my debt by the time I reached 30.

 

[MsMediator]

For me, debt doesn't bother me as much if it is "good" debt. I know many people with student loans. Fortunately I made it a point to pay off my debt by the time I reached 30.

I know people in their 50s making student loan payments, but they don't let this bother them. They are fine with making minimum payments but keeping more of their income to maintain their standard of living. It is not wise but they don't care. One also hopes her loan is forgiven once she passes away. Student loan interest rates are much much lower than credit card rates.

 

[JohnDB]

Money, spending, and debt are conversations I don't think enough Christians have -- at least, not before it's too late.

I don't know if it's a case of opposites attracting, but one of the reasons I'm single is because I generally attracted guys who spent a lot more money than they made. Women always get a bad rap for shopping or wanting a life beyond their means and then using a man as an ATM, but somehow I wound up in the opposite situation, and people often wouldn't believe me.

There's also the double whammy that in the Christian mindset, the man is supposed to be the head of the household. But that doesn't mean he's automatically good with or should be handling the money. And that causes a lot of friction, because in the few relationships I had, it usually boiled down to, "I'm the man, so there's no way a woman is going to be in control of the finances. Sure, I know you're paying some of my bills for me because of my irresponsible spending and refusing to change, but I'm the man, and I'll dictate my finances -- and yours." No thank you. I know of at least one case in which the guy had to file for bankruptcy, and I thank God I got out when I did.

And I'm certainly no financial genius. I just had parents who said NO to a lot of things when I was growing up (I always tell them one of the most valuable lessons they taught me was delayed gratification,) lived under their means, and always stressed saving and investing for the future.

It's an interesting -- and hazardous -- phenomenon in the church as well. I was raised in a church where since the pastors were the spiritual authority, they were always seen as the financial authority as well. It didn't seem to cross their minds that people can be great in one area but have absolutely no skill in another. All the church seemed to know how was to make big plans, continuously ask the people for more money, and then say it was to get more people saved -- with the unspoken side effect of bringing in more money (to make bigger plans, to bring in more people, to get more saved, who bring in more money...) And so the merry-go-round went on and on.

Now to give them credit, they were always open about where the money was going. It's just that there never seemed to be any talk of paying off debt before taking on more.

These days, one of my criteria for a church is how open it is about its finances and how much it prioritizes paying off debt (because how can they teach people about this if they're not doing it themselves?)

In my young adulthood, I started attending another church that had a lot of community involvement and was seeing a lot of growth because of it. I remember the day when, instead of asking for money, they asked regulars if they would be open to attending church on a different day or time to allow room for new people during the more traditional service times.

The pastor explained that the church had no debt, and so instead of taking out a loan and building an additional sanctuary, they first wanted to try getting more use out of the space they already owned by offering more services. I was floored. My original church would have just started planning an addition -- the cost would have been an afterthought because they would say that "The Lord will provide" (via expectations that members would just give more.)

I'm certainly not saying there isn't a time or place for each of these strategies, depending on where God leads.

But I remember calling my parents right after the service and telling them, "I've found a church that doesn't have any debt! Isn't that... Some kind of sin?!?"

But all I had ever known was churches swimming in masses of debt as the norm.

It's funny how something can be so ingrained into your mindset that even when you come across a better, healthier way -- somehow, at least at first, it still feels wrong.

WOW...
A LOT of subjects here that are related and unrelated all at the same time with the common denominator of money.

Who we are attracted to and the people we are attracting is a HUGE thing...and if I were better at human psychology I would never have made near the number of mistakes I have made.

Now some churches seem to grow exponentially fast....and then evaporate just as fast. Debts can be left with guarantors left holding the bag (congregation members). Also failed/abandoned church buildings can become what is known as a Brown Site.

It's what happens when a church split or senior pastor is caught doing something untoward. Or if the popular pastor dies. All these things can destroy a church's congregation numbers.

Pastors are always looking for a resume polisher. Always looking for a larger congregation to lead and a larger salary to go with. The church outreach with video, radio, or some other ministry program are usually nothing more than pastoral personal promotion. The debt is just part of the "growth" the pastor led at the church while he was the pastor there. Meaning he can show he was a successful pastor. Which is what most churches are looking for when selecting a pastor.

 

[Lanolin]

I didnt grow up in church but I have been to churches that are tightfisted with money and controlling on the way its spent so that the building might be falling down around them and the weeds five feet high before they do anything. But the board or guys in charge are landbanking the church to sell it off so they not interested in maintaining it, to build a bigger, newer church somewhere else. However they dont necessarily tell their congregation this.....

 

[Lanolin]

I dont like being thought of as a 'money bringer' to church like Im somehow a paying customer rather than a member. Doesnt sit well with me. But then I kept wondering why people always asked me after the service had I found a job or how was work or was I still working. I didnt really clue in they just wanted to know how much I earned so they could judge me on how much value I was or what I was worth.

 

[Cameron143]

I dont like being thought of as a 'money bringer' to church like Im somehow a paying customer rather than a member. Doesnt sit well with me. But then I kept wondering why people always asked me after the service had I found a job or how was work or was I still working. I didnt really clue in they just wanted to know how much I earned so they could judge me on how much value I was or what I was worth.

Or they were genuinely concerned and wanted to know if their prayers for you had been answered.

 

[Lanolin]

Or they were genuinely concerned and wanted to know if their prayers for you had been answered.

some were some werent
I think Ive experienced both and Ive had the opposite end of the scale where some church members prefered me unemployed so they could have me volunteer my time for free. But if they did they they would have at least given me some food or cover transport to get there or some kind of acknowledgemt at the end of the year

I think volunteering is good but only if you treat your volunteers well always thank them and not abuse their willingness to help.

 

[Lanolin]

Bact to topic
financial advise is to pay off that debt, if you only do minimum payments then of course it will take you much longer.

The other thing is to declare bankruptcy or write off the loan. What a lot of people tend to do is emigrate and leave all their debts behind for someone else to handle. The debt collectors/creditors cant chase you all over the world then.

Not saying this is what you should do but just saying its actually what a lot of people do in a desperate situation. If they can earn more overseas to then pay it they will leave.

Most people that get married want to 'settle down' long enough to establish something (like their own home) but building a foundation from a huge hole in the ground may mean you never see the light of day. You will be busy working/slaving all your life. No holidays. No time with each other. Just work work work.

I supoose if you love the person you wont mind working 7-14 years to have them though right?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

[QUOTE"Lanolin, post: 5053107, member: 278641"]Bact to topic
financial advise is to pay off that debt, if you only do minimum payments then of course it will take you much longer.
Most people that get married want to 'settle down' long enough to establish something (like their own home) but building a foundation from a huge hole in the ground may mean you never see the light of day. You will be busy working/slaving all your life. No holidays. No time with each other. Just work work work.

I supoose if you love the person you wont mind working 7-14 years to have them though right?[/QUOTE]
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Most mortgages are 30 years.
Then there are the other debts that were covered.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

[QUOTE"Lanolin, post: 5053107, member: 278641"]Bact to topic
financial advise is to pay off that debt, if you only do minimum payments then of course it will take you much longer.
Most people that get married want to 'settle down' long enough to establish something (like their own home) but building a foundation from a huge hole in the ground may mean you never see the light of day. You will be busy working/slaving all your life. No holidays. No time with each other. Just work work work.

I supoose if you love the person you wont mind working 7-14 years to have them though right?[/QUOTE]
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What you mentioned about churches not taking care of servants like evangelists, deacons, missionaries, full time servants is often true. Pastors need to make the churches very aware of their responsibilities and ask on behalf of the servants. They also should teach those who are training for ministries exactly what to do and to reasonably expect when going on deputation/ asking for support.

To elaborate on the short post above....
Most mortgages are 30 years.
Then there are the other debts that were covered by responses.

Except for the grace of God,
My guess is that many will lose even their homes if the economy tanks and another depression occurs. I'm not trying to be a Danny Downer. We already saw a depression and small business takeover by monopolistic major corps. The financial advisors are talking about volatility of the US Dollar, BRICS, etc. Then factor in bank runs and closures with no insurance except for the too big to fail companies owned by the monopolists.
Bill Gates, Vanguard,. CCP, Black Rock are positioning for this right now and and have been for years.
I think they will buy up America with pennies on the dollar while providing rentals in the feudalistic 15 minute cities they will own along with Rothschild and Rockefeller. There are many advantages over being a gullible college student eating Ramen Noodles, frozen pizza, trusting the beast system to take care of them.

They might have 30 years indentured servitude to look forward to, but God only knows. His mercy endures forever and He takes care of His children. I attest to that.

 

[Lanolin]

the people who run retirement villages are the billionaires because they can easily buy and sell when people die. Its a racket for sure. You dont actually own anything just right to occupy. But you only get back what you paid for if you do sell up before you die. The CEOs of the retirement villages keep all the profits.

Though they do all the maintainance so you cant say you actually added any value to your 'home' or rather 'cell' , and you dont own any land, you might be up six storeys high and just own air space.

 

[Lanolin]

I dont think people should mock being a college student as of you are bright and love your subject, college is the best thing for you. A university degree has never necessarly been a ticket to riches. Its having the knowledge and expertise thats valuable sometimes in of itself, and its good to have proper rigourous training. Because Lord knows you wont get much on the job training in most jobs, who has the time or discpline. You need that for a lot of things.

If you dont value your education then sure go to the school of hard knocks. Keep your mind closed and ignorant...up to you.

 

[Kireina]

If I am willing to marry someone in debt it depends....🤔 Like for example,Is it because of gambling or excessive/extravagant buying or shopping expensive unnecessary things? I'll think twice 😅 because For me that's quite serious....


Car loan,Housing loan or health loan that's ok for me....I also have loan and for me that's understandable because if not because of those loans I won't be able to buy a home....I don't have cash on hand for one time payment so bank loan is my best option...


I have 23k USD (mortgage) debt so my husband to be will going to marry a lady who is 45 years old in debt Oh man oh man lol 😂


In my opinion that's ok...with exceptions....because who doesn't have debt or loans ? Well there are people who don't have debt but many hardworking men and women I know have debt ☺️ my friend joke about it she says if you have no debt you are not normal lol because normal people have debt 😂

 

[Sculpt]

Hey Everyone,

I can't confirm how accurate these numbers are because this was just a quick web search, and I can't tell you what the average age is that would be associated with these numbers.

But if Google is to be believed, the average American's debts look something like this:

Average American Credit Card Debt: $9,260.00
Average American Student Loan Balance: $37,338.00
Average American Auto Loan Balance: $20,987.00


Grand Total: $67,585.00


So if an average American man and woman with the average amount of debt were to get married, they might possibly be looking at about $135,170.00 worth of debt -- right as they say, "I do." Some of this might be included in the credit card debt, but what about additional medical bills a person might have and/or family expenses (children from previous marriages, etc.)? And the numbers keep climbing higher every year.

Even as Christians, statistics still show that money is always at the top of the list of reasons as to why many people divorce. Now of course, our faith in God should ALWAYS be above money.

But I have to be honest -- I can't imagine what it must be like to start a brand-new life with someone when it comes with the immense pressure of a 6-figure debt right off the bat. Then again, each person was dealing with their own debts individually, so maybe now it will be a relief to have someone else to tackle it with -- even if it means double or more the amount.

How does debt affect Christian singles in their dating life/search for a spouse?

* Does debt ever cause you to withdraw from dating -- whether because you don't want to put your debts onto someone else, or because you don't want to take on anyone else's debt but your own?

* What is the line between going ahead, getting married, and "trusting that God will work everything out," vs. holding off getting married or not marrying at all because of extreme debt? And how do you know when to make which choice?

* If someone told you they had over $60,000 in debt, would it affect your decision of whether or not to date or eventually marry them? Would it depend on how much debt you yourself owed?

* What experiences have you had or have seen regarding this? Did you or someone you know marry anyway, despite large debts? How did it go? Or did you wait and try to get some of them paid down first? What happened?

* What would be your advice to couples who want to marry, but are facing enormous amounts of debt? Should they wait, or go ahead and marry, trusting that God will help them pay?

Please don't misunderstand. I am NOT saying in any way that we should somehow let money guide our decisions rather than God.

But even the Bible talks about having solid foundations to build our lives upon, and I know that for me, I would be very cautious about getting into such a situation without a lot of prayer, counsel, and action (having an active plan of how to pay the debts down.) All the prayer in the world isn't going to give us peace of mind if we have bill collectors hounding us 24/7.

And for people who have not experienced this first hand, maybe you've seen this happen with your own parents or family members.

I would really like to hear some honest accounts of how these situations were handled, and how people are approaching this today.

* Does debt ever cause you to withdraw from dating -- whether because you don't want to put your debts onto someone else, or because you don't want to take on anyone else's debt but your own?

Nope, I never withdrew from someone because of their debt. I've always felt you marry a person, not a situation. I know there's a lot of people who think the opposite. Many people believe God gives you both (the person and the situation)... I mean, what christian doesn't believe God put you into your situation to some extent? You don't pick your body, your parents, how and where you were raised, disasters, (most) diseases and what God calls you to do. And yet there's still a lot of people who prioritize marrying a situation. Of course, everyone must learn, change, apply Biblical principles, make an effort to do what's right and point oneself in the right direction, but there's a reason we need Jesus.

I consider home, student loans and medical bills in a different category than luxury debt. And you can probably add a car to that. What KIND of car or home one might scrutinize based on the obvious situation they were in at the time; namely, could they afford it.

Luxury debt is a different situation. It's mainly credit card debt (which usually carries crazy interest rates). People who knowingly buy what they can't afford... because why? they deserve what they haven't earned? Most states have food and housing (even phone) subsidies for low-income folks. Still, I don't doubt there's CC debt that comes from necessity as well, car insurance and other things.

Luxury debt is a character issue you have to look at. Compulsive spending and shopping addiction is literally treated as a mental disorder lol. You have to believe this unresolved character issue will continue into marriage, and possibly bankrupt you both, if it isn't treated first. I think it's a deep world view and faith issue, and would likely be connected to how they view and treat others.

Interesting to note: you are not legally responsible for your marriage partner's debt when you marry. And only nine states make your spouse's after-marriage newly acquired debt your responsibility. I suppose I'll cross that bridge of details when if it comes.


* What is the line between going ahead, getting married, and "trusting that God will work everything out," vs. holding off getting married or not marrying at all because of extreme debt? And how do you know when to make which choice?

Again, if you find your loved one, you work it out. You always look at their character... if the debt is because of negative character issues, that's going to play out as a character issue, not a $ amount.


* If someone told you they had over $60,000 in debt, would it affect your decision of whether or not to date or eventually marry them? Would it depend on how much debt you yourself owed?

Same as above.


* What would be your advice to couples who want to marry, but are facing enormous amounts of debt? Should they wait, or go ahead and marry, trusting that God will help them pay?

I'm aware of how being married negative affects their debt. Sharing living expenses reduces debt. Unless their living with family... in which case I think some people could live with family and some can't. Again, I think the real issue is character. Each individual should not rush, or be rushed, into marriage until they know the other's character regarding debt.

 

[Lanolin]

is someone advising someone else or is this there own personal situation?

One of my cousins got engaged and bought a house and lost her job. She has to find another one soon cos shes has to finance a house, so there is no wedding date as of yet. I am pretty sure the house is over a million but she bought it with her brothers/family who are working.

All it means is there will not be any (expensive) wedding. Im not sure it will stop her from being married though. Shes already got the ring, though rings can always be pawned if desperate.

she spent $3000 on a pet rabbit though who had a cat scan and has cancer
so medical bills is something you cant help
She has no car because she had a company car which she had to give back.
she is living eith her fiance so its not like they arent together, just not married. I am not sure why they dont just get the thing signed.

shes paid of her student loan though. So she will easily find another job with her qualification and experience, its not like shes still a graduate and looking for work with no experience. I think youth unemploment is a big factor in depression and also, banks dont want to lend to anyone who Isnt employed. But they cant factor or predict whether jobs will be steady or not. Well not in this country.

its like farmers, you cant always tell whether the season will be good or bad. You still need to grow plants or raise animals anyway. All business has an element of risk to it. if you want to not risk anything in life you just wouldnt do anything I suppose.

 

[Lanolin]

I think its silly to date or marry someone just because of how much they earn or their bank balance. Its something to be aware of sure and open about but I am sure that if you are a christian you would ask God for your debts to be forgiven. Especially if it was a huge debt that would take many years to pay off...God might give you the option of living longer to pay it off, allowing circicumstances to give you a higher income, or you just work harder to pay it off...or opt for bankruptucy and have it wiped and start over lol

Though amnesty is not always granted I think God in his mercy knows what people can handle. When you cant afford something and take a loan, you actually willingly sign up for that. You know the terms and conditions and that it needs to be paid. How could you not? Your partner or spouse is NOT your guarantor and is not resposonsible for the debt you got yourself into. Its not a good idea to expect someone else to bear your own burden.

 

[Sculpt]

...

she spent $3000 on a pet rabbit though who had a cat scan and has cancer
so medical bills is something you cant help

...

Spending $3000 or not on a sick rabbit is something you can help. lol

I don't blink at getting a pet medical attention, but I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars to treat a rabbit, partially because they have a 5-10 yr lifespan. Spending a lot of money on sick pets is a very difficult decision, I think every situation is different. I just think it's important to remember animals are not as important as people.

 

[Lanolin]

Spending $3000 or not on a sick rabbit is something you can help. lol

I don't blink at getting a pet medical attention, but I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars to treat a rabbit, partially because they have a 5-10 yr lifespan. Spending a lot of money on sick pets is a very difficult decision, I think every situation is different. I just think it's important to remember animals are not as important as people.

well who cares what I think shes the one with the rabbit. Not me.

 

[Lanolin]

some people spend $3000 on a phone they dont really need. So, whatever. If your rabbit was sick, you would probably spend that much and give up something else right. Depending on how much you loved your rabbit.

Or whatever loved one as sick. If you also had children you would spend $3000 on your child right? Or maybe not, some parents spend more on drugs than on their own children. Or maybe they dont have children and can spend it on whatever they want...if they have the money.

In any case vet fees and dental bills are hugely expensive. Vets and dentists can charge what they like, and some health providers are unethical in that they charge through the nose for treatment that patients can ill afford. So only rich people get looked after. Although thats always been the way.

There has never been free vets or dental care after age 18

 

[Lanolin]

In regards student loans you could just choose NOT to be educated right?
or maybe not go to school at all and read books from the library. Could work they are free.