Proof of Luke 16:19

[JohnB]

An ancient structure surrounds Earth’s core, study claims

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ancient-structure-surrounds-earth-core-030100055.html

This study claims that an ancient structure that scientists believe to be an ocean floor surrounds the core of our planet


The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, "Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire." Luke 16:19,,,,,very interesting

 

[Artios1]

I fail to see a connection between this and a parable...

 

[JohnB]

I fail to see a connection between this and a parable...

The rich man in hell was asking for Lazarus to dip his hand in the water. Abraham said there was a great gulf between them

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The rich man in hell was asking for Lazarus to dip his hand in the water. Abraham said there was a great gulf between them

❧

 

[Artios1]

The rich man in hell was asking for Lazarus to dip his hand in the water. Abraham said there was a great gulf between them

Some people don’t believe it was a parable, but it is.

Jesus told this parable to the Pharisees in light of their (The Pharisees) beliefs… The phrase “Abraham’s Bosom” is coined from them as one of several afterlife locations that the Pharisees believed according to their Talmudic traditions along with rewards and punishment immediately after death...(they were not Jesus beliefs)..... Jesus uses the parable to condemn the Pharisees and catch them in their own erroneous belief as Luk 16:31 states in the conclusion of this parable…”And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead”.

If this parable is taken as real …. It then allows contradictions of Jesus’s words and other contradictions of the written Word ….. and leaves a vast playing field for people to make up different things about Abrahams bosom, which one denomination in particular does just that….

 

[JohnB]

Some people don’t believe it was a parable, but it is.

Jesus told this parable to the Pharisees in light of their (The Pharisees) beliefs… The phrase “Abraham’s Bosom” is coined from them as one of several afterlife locations that the Pharisees believed according to their Talmudic traditions along with rewards and punishment immediately after death...(they were not Jesus beliefs)..... Jesus uses the parable to condemn the Pharisees and catch them in their own erroneous belief as Luk 16:31 states in the conclusion of this parable…”And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead”.

If this parable is taken as real …. It then allows contradictions of Jesus’s words and other contradictions of the written Word ….. and leaves a vast playing field for people to make up different things about Abrahams bosom, which one denomination in particular does just that….

In all the parables Jesus never gave anyone a name. The bible is also clear Jesus descended into hades and spoke to the souls there..

 

[Artios1]

In all the parables Jesus never gave anyone a name. ..

As I said…. that is what the Pharisees believed… Jesus spoke in light of their Talmudic beliefs.

A parable… is a comparison by sustained resemblance; an extended simile whose likeness or resemblance must be sought from the entire context. They generally express an abstract argument by means of using a concrete narrative.

The bible is also clear Jesus descended into hades and spoke to the souls there..

And this is what I meant about adding stuff to the parable. You didn’t get that from the Word it came from religion.

Jesus was in the heart of the earth…. Dead for 3 days and 3 nights. He witnessed (showed Himself) to the imprisoned spirits in Tartarous after he was raised on Saturday Nisan 17 before dusk. There are no souls in hell.
Sheol, hades, gehenna, katakaio, and tartarous are the words used that have been translated into our one English word hell; they are not the same.

Tartarous is used once and translated hell in II Peter 2:4 it refers to the place of imprisoned evil sprits ……not a place of torment for sinners.
II Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The word hades (hell) from the Greek was used as a counterpart to the Hebrew word sheol and is more accurately defined as a state rather then a place.

Gravedom is a word coined by Bullinger…. and is a great word for hell….. it is the state, reign or time of being in the grave. I am not talking about the grave itself which employs the Greek word (qeber).

The Old Testament is the fountain-head of the Hebrew language. It has no literature behind it. But the case is entirely different with the Greek language. The Hebrew word Sheol is divine in its origin and usage. The Greek Hades is human in its nature and come down laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meaning and usages.”

Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. The concept of an infernal “hell” developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period.

 

[JohnB]

As I said…. that is what the Pharisees believed… Jesus spoke in light of their Talmudic beliefs.

A parable… is a comparison by sustained resemblance; an extended simile whose likeness or resemblance must be sought from the entire context. They generally express an abstract argument by means of using a concrete narrative.




And this is what I meant about adding stuff to the parable. You didn’t get that from the Word it came from religion.

Jesus was in the heart of the earth…. Dead for 3 days and 3 nights. He witnessed (showed Himself) to the imprisoned spirits in Tartarous after he was raised on Saturday Nisan 17 before dusk. There are no souls in hell.
Sheol, hades, gehenna, katakaio, and tartarous are the words used that have been translated into our one English word hell; they are not the same.

Tartarous is used once and translated hell in II Peter 2:4 it refers to the place of imprisoned evil sprits ……not a place of torment for sinners.
II Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The word hades (hell) from the Greek was used as a counterpart to the Hebrew word sheol and is more accurately defined as a state rather then a place.

Gravedom is a word coined by Bullinger…. and is a great word for hell….. it is the state, reign or time of being in the grave. I am not talking about the grave itself which employs the Greek word (qeber).

The Old Testament is the fountain-head of the Hebrew language. It has no literature behind it. But the case is entirely different with the Greek language. The Hebrew word Sheol is divine in its origin and usage. The Greek Hades is human in its nature and come down laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meaning and usages.”

Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. The concept of an infernal “hell” developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period.

So you don't believe there is a hell? Than Jesus lied? When he told the story of the rich man and Lazareth?

 

[JohnB]

"The Talmud (Hebrew for “study”) is one of the central works of the Jewish people. It is the record of rabbinic teachings that spans a period of about six hundred years, beginning in the first century C.E. and continuing through the sixth and seventh centuries C.E. "......the Talmud was written AFTER Jesus died.

 

[Genipher]

So you don't believe there is a hell? Than Jesus lied? When he told the story of the rich man and Lazareth?

There's the Lake of Burning Fire but "hell" is a man-made idea.

 

[Artios1]

So you don't believe there is a hell? Than Jesus lied? When he told the story of the rich man and Lazareth?

You and I know He never lied ….and he would never espouse things as true… that would contradict the Old Testament writings or any biblical truths. If that parable were a realism, it would contradict the Word.

 

[Artios1]

"The Talmud (Hebrew for “study”) is one of the central works of the Jewish people. It is the record of rabbinic teachings that spans a period of about six hundred years, beginning in the first century C.E. and continuing through the sixth and seventh centuries C.E. "......the Talmud was written AFTER Jesus died.

I said their Talmudic beliefs…. not documentation …. you need to do some research into Babylonian mysticism and the influx of that into Judaism especially what was practiced for the 400 years prior to Jesus. Culture and practices became corrupted with twisted beliefs …The devil was having a hay-day with Pharisees who were supposed to be the guardians of truth…

 

[JohnB]

There's the Lake of Burning Fire but "hell" is a man-made idea.

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death......Revelation 20:14

I said their Talmudic beliefs…. not documentation …. you need to do some research into Babylonian mysticism and the influx of that into Judaism especially what was practiced for the 400 years prior to Jesus. Culture and practices became corrupted with twisted beliefs …The devil was having a hay-day with Pharisees who were supposed to be the guardians of truth…

Jesus did not deal with the Babylonian mysticism. He only dealt with the Torah.

 

[JohnB]

You and I know He never lied ….and he would never espouse things as true… that would contradict the Old Testament writings or any biblical truths. If that parable were a realism, it would contradict the Word.

Do you believe there is a hell? A place of eternal torment. Are you a JW?

 

[Artios1]

Are you a JW?

No …..I am a JB

Do you believe there is a hell?

Not in the distorted, fictitious, “eternal torment” that religion has dressed up and fed us as hell. I do subscribe to what the Word declares as the second death for unbelieving God rejectors… (death being the qualifying word) It is not an eternal torment for God rejectors… just death, total eradication.

 

[Artios1]

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death......Revelation 20:14

Jesus did not deal with the Babylonian mysticism. He only dealt with the Torah.

forget it .......apparently I am not good at explaining this.

 

[oyster67]

There's the Lake of Burning Fire but "hell" is a man-made idea.

The word Hell is used to represent several different things in the Bible (as you say, the Lake of Fire being one).
Mark 9:43
“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:”

The Bible also uses it to describe the Grave, the Bosom of Abraham, Hades, etc. Context always makes it clear.

Psalms 16:10
“For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”

 

[JaumeJ]

Look up the etymology of the word, hell.

 

[oyster67]

JohnB said:
Do you believe there is a hell?

No …..I am a JB
Not in the distorted, fictitious, “eternal torment” that religion has dressed up and fed us as hell. I do subscribe to what the Word declares as the second death for unbelieving God rejectors… (death being the qualifying word) It is not an eternal torment for God rejectors… just death, total eradication.

Then you do not believe the Bible...

Matthew 25:46 Context

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[JohnB]

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2