Water Baptism

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G

glf

Active member
#1
Mar 18, 2023
268
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#1
Jesus lived a perfect life under the OT law and kept the spirit of the new covenant in all that he did. When Jesus went to John the Baptist to be baptized of him in water, it was not to fulfil the requirement of the OT law, nor because he needed repentance, but rather: it was as an example for us who will live under the new covenant. After all, Jesus is the mediator of the new testament. Besides an outward sharing on the Lord's death and resurrection; water baptism is a proclamation to the body of Christ that here is a new member. It was a social event among believers. So much so, that it seems they even held proxy baptisms for the dead were martyred before they were water baptized themselves. You can bet that they didn't have baptisms for the dead for those who were by one Spirit baptized into one body.
The elementary principals of the oracles of God are for the individual: repentance from dead works, and faith towards God; for the Church: the doctrines of baptisms, and laying on of hands; for the Church's burden: resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. Water baptism in comparison to when we were by one Spirit baptized into one body, fades by the Spirit's excellent and overshadowing glory!
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#2
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#2
'Being baptised for the dead'... is a verse that cannot stand alone and is wholly dependent on the context of the verses surrounding it.

From memory.. it is about the practice of baptism by immersion.. symbolising His death and resurrection and that if Jesus is not risen.. which some were arguing at the time.. then what they were doing by baptising believers is useless. 'The dead'... is Jesus if He is not risen.

'Why are we baptising for the dead?' Is like saying.. 'You think Jesus is not risen.. why would we baptise in His name.. as a picture of what He has done, if He be not risen?'

I think that is the context of it.. rather than some kind of ritual where people think of dead people in heaven and baptise for them.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#3
#3
glf said:
Jesus lived a perfect life under the OT law and kept the spirit of the new covenant in all that he did. When Jesus went to John the Baptist to be baptized of him in water, it was not to fulfil the requirement of the OT law, nor because he needed repentance, but rather: it was as an example for us who will live under the new covenant. After all, Jesus is the mediator of the new testament. Besides an outward sharing on the Lord's death and resurrection; water baptism is a proclamation to the body of Christ that here is a new member. It was a social event among believers. So much so, that it seems they even held proxy baptisms for the dead were martyred before they were water baptized themselves. You can bet that they didn't have baptisms for the dead for those who were by one Spirit baptized into one body.
The elementary principals of the oracles of God are for the individual: repentance from dead works, and faith towards God; for the Church: the doctrines of baptisms, and laying on of hands; for the Church's burden: resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. Water baptism in comparison to when we were by one Spirit baptized into one body, fades by the Spirit's excellent and overshadowing glory!
Click to expand...
Jesus explained to John, " to fulfill all righteousness". No where is "as an example" ever used and niether is social event.
Paul and Peter explain baptism very clearly.
 
G

glf

Active member
#4
Mar 18, 2023
268
116
43
70
#4
wattie said:
'Being baptised for the dead'... is a verse that cannot stand alone and is wholly dependent on the context of the verses surrounding it.

From memory.. it is about the practice of baptism by immersion.. symbolising His death and resurrection and that if Jesus is not risen.. which some were arguing at the time.. then what they were doing by baptising believers is useless. 'The dead'... is Jesus if He is not risen.

'Why are we baptising for the dead?' Is like saying.. 'You think Jesus is not risen.. why would we baptise in His name.. as a picture of what He has done, if He be not risen?'

I think that is the context of it.. rather than some kind of ritual where people think of dead people in heaven and baptise for them.
Click to expand...
I only speculate that it was for martyrs who yet to have been baptized by water, but yikes at Jesus not being risen! No, it seems to be an actual practice no matter what their reason was for it. I was trying to show the social component to water baptism among the early church. Which I hoped you had noticed. Again, yiikes at Jesus not being risen!
 
G

glf

Active member
#5
Mar 18, 2023
268
116
43
70
#5
Locoponydirtman said:
Jesus explained to John, " to fulfill all righteousness". No where is "as an example" ever used and niether is social event.
Paul and Peter explain baptism very clearly.
Click to expand...
I just quoted that verse which is Mt 3.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#6
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#6
1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1Co 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

This later context of the verse of being baptised for the dead.. shows it is about the resurrected Jesus. Why did Paul fight with beasts at Ephesus if not for the risen Christ?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#7
#7
No you said this
glf said:
When Jesus went to John the Baptist to be baptized of him in water, it was not to fulfil the requirement of the OT law, nor because he needed repentance, but rather: it was as an example for us who will live under the new covenant.
Click to expand...
Which is not what Jesus said. He said, "to fulfill all righteousness", not that stuff about an example.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#8
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#8
As is written, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, our Example.
 
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