Angels can procreate

[JohnB]

Silly man. I have never said, hinted at, insinuated, implied, or supported any such
thing. Besides which, "giants" exist to this day... Angels have nothing to do with it.

And, I also told you why believers are not to be yoked to non-believers.

I quoted the very Scripture verse that gives the reason.

Do you just conveniently ignore what does not suit your agenda?

But you have when you supported the idea of the lines of Seth and Cain mixing. Nowhere in the scriptures were they told to keep seperate.

 

[Magenta]

But you have when you supported the idea of the lines of Seth and Cain mixing. Nowhere in the scriptures were they told to keep seperate.

Now you bear false witness. I have never said any such thing, and I gave the Biblical reason why believers
were not to yoke themselves with non-believers, which you keep ignoring in favour of your dishonesty.

 

[JohnB]

Now you bear false witness. I have never said any such thing, and I gave the Biblical reason why believers
were not to yoke themselves with non-believers, which you keep ignoring in favour of your dishonesty.

There was no being unequally yoked in Genesis 6. There was no law than.

 

[CS1]

There was no being unequally yoked in Genesis 6. There was no law than.

yes, there was Genesis chapter 2:24


24. Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.

The Lord Jesus repeated this in the gospels concerning marriage, and he called it a Law.

 

[JohnB]

yes, there was Genesis chapter 2:24


24. Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.

The Lord Jesus repeated this in the gospels concerning marriage, and he called it a Law.

It was not a law. Jesus was just stating Genesis 2:24. The law was not given until Moses. There was no law before Moses.

 

[Clayman]

lol, first you say "the last thing you want is for your family to go and mingle with the decedents(wrong word) of Cain..." then you give a verse Rom.2:14 that disproves what you just said...

Ill reword how I see things for you, I see Cain worshipping at his alter of vegetables as works based religion, he is the head of his family and spreads false religion, Seths line is not works based worship but faith based, but as people intermingle they too adopt work based religion. This motif is throughout scripture, this is why we are told not to let leaven into the church for it will spread. Why Israel was not to marry from the Canaanites for they would also adopt their Idols and so forth.

It's odd watching threads like this because the vast majority seem's to think ungodliness is an inherited genetic disorder passed down from their father Cain.

lol the only people I have heard saying such things are those who hold the angel view for example JohnB sets up strawmen by saying things like sin does not create giants in regards to the intermingling of Seths line, as far as I know no one holding this view thinks that, the reason he believes that is because angels sinned and created giants in his view, So since he believes angels sinning created giants he no doubt does not even realise he misinterprets my view.

 

[Magenta]

lol the only people I have heard saying such things are those who hold the angel view for example JohnB sets up strawmen by saying things like sin does not create giants in regards to the intermingling of Seths line, as far as I know no one holding this view thinks that, the reason he believes that is because angels sinned and created giants in his view, So since he believes angels sinning created giants he no doubt does not even realise he misinterprets my view.

People also have a very bad habit of misrepresenting those who disagree with them, and this is often done for the very obvious reason of trying to discredit them... such as John has repeatedly done with me, ignoring what I actually say and attempting to attribute to me things I have not said, have never said, do not believe, have never believed, have never hinted at, implied, nor insinuated. It's a despicable practice, but whatcha gonna do? It puts some of the worst of human nature on full display and is part of the very reason why God was do disgusted with humanity He flooded the world to destroy all but eight people and a bunch of animals.

 

[CS1]

It was not a law. Jesus was just stating Genesis 2:24. The law was not given until Moses. There was no law before Moses.

Matthew 19:3-12


3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Jesus said this was from the Beginning and quoted Genesis 2:24.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Which translation is that? From what I have seen, most say

ḇə·nê-
בְנֵי־

hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm
הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙

Not "divine beings."

And, the view some hold calls demons sons of God. Which makes no sense at all
as you have done here = calling demons divine. The Bible does explicitly say:

For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have
become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”?

Torah, JPS, 2006

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

correct.

The word El oHyim has more than one meaning gods, angels, and men, depending on how it is used.

The term " Sons of God," identifies men as the creation of God in the context of Genesis, not angels. Bene-elohim= sons of God

The Father of Creation. The term is used only here, I believe because the fall of man was still a relatively new event that happened. As we see, Adam was still alive, and so was Eve in chapter end of chapters 4 and in 5.

Here is how Rabbi's interpret Genesis 6:
The Benei Elohim, the Watchers, and the Origins of Evil

that in those days there were born to them fair and beautiful daughters.
6:2 And the angels, the sons of heaven, saw them and desired them. And they said to one another: ‘Come, let us choose for ourselves wives from the children of men, and let us beget for ourselves children.’ 6:3 And Shemihaza, who was their leader, said to them: ‘I fear that you may not wish this deed to be done, and [that] I alone will pay for this great sin.’ 6:4 And they all answered him and said: ‘Let us all swear an oath, and bind one another with curses not to alter this plan, but to carry out this plan effectively.’ …

7:2 And they (=the human women) became pregnant and bore large giants. 7:3 These devoured all the toil of men, until men were unable to sustain them. 7:4 And the giants turned against them in order to devour men. 7:5 And they began to sin against birds, and against animals, and against reptiles and against fish, and they devoured one another’s flesh and drank the blood from it. 7:6 Then the earth complained about the lawless ones.

This is Ancient Hebrew Writings that ALL Jews, including Jesus, and Disciples, would have believed.

7:8 And now the giants who were born from spirits and flesh will be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth will be their dwelling. 7:9 And evil spirits came out from their flesh because from above they were created; from the holy Watchers was their origin and first foundation. Evil spirits they will be on the earth, and spirits of the evil ones they will be called. 7:10 And the dwelling of the spirits of heaven is in heaven, but the dwelling of the spirits of earth, who were born on the earth, [is] on earth. 7:11 And the spirits of the giants . . . which do wrong and are corrupt, and attack and fight and break on the earth, and cause sorrow; and they eat no food and do not thirst, and are not observed. 7:12 And these spirits will rise against the sons of men and against the women because they came out [from them].

 

[JohnB]

Matthew 19:3-12


3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Jesus said this was from the Beginning and quoted Genesis 2:24.

Where is the lines of Seth and Cain mentioned in Genesis 6?

 

[JohnB]

People also have a very bad habit of misrepresenting those who disagree with them, and this is often done for the very obvious reason of trying to discredit them... such as John has repeatedly done with me, ignoring what I actually say and attempting to attribute to me things I have not said, have never said, do not believe, have never believed, have never hinted at, implied, nor insinuated. It's a despicable practice, but whatcha gonna do? It puts some of the worst of human nature on full display and is part of the very reason why God was do disgusted with humanity He flooded the world to destroy all but eight people and a bunch of animals.

Where are the lines of Seth and Cain mentioned in Genesis 6? Where does it say the line of Seth was holy?

 

[Mem]

This is Ancient Hebrew Writings that ALL Jews, including Jesus, and Disciples, would have believed.

This is not true. I happen to personally know a rabbi that teaches no such thing, and there are many differences of interpretation even among rabbinical scholars. Indeed, some teach of Adam's supposed first wife, Lilith.
And, going on my rabbi's teaching of sons of God and the Hebrew meaning of "Nephilim" as being men of a high estate falling for "common" women who were regarded in light of a low moral turpitude.

 

[ManyStars]

Gen 6 is taken out of context:

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

In the early generations of mankind, when he began to multiply on the earth, there was a clear separation and distinction between the Children of God (Seth's descendants ) and the daughters of man (Cain's descendants). However, the male men of God saw the secular woman and found them attracted and married them. (God warned Solomon and the children of Israel not to marry people of the world with good reason.) Intermarrying between the sons of God and the daughters of man removed completely the distinction between the two groups to a point where the sons of God were consumed by Cain's worldly and rebellious generations. Thus, all of mankind was consumed by sinful practices that God wish He had not made man.

As man became more and more wicked God said My spirit shall not always strive with man. In other words mercy will not always plead on behalf of man, especially when wickedness exceeds God's mercy and grace or man can no longer be reached by the God's spirit.

The one hundred and twenty years does not apply to the age of man, but to the number of years Noah preached before the flood waters came and destroyed the wicked antediluvians.

Giants in those days!

Originally, God created man in his image and likeness. Man was made perfect with great height, symmetrical and greater intellect. It is due to the generations and generations of sin and depravity that are form and likeness to God has been marred by transgression. We are from the perfect image and likeness of our Creator. Yes, during the earlier generations close to Adam and Eve men were giants in comparison to succeeding generations and certainly to our generation today.


I agree that Angels can take human form... examples:

II Cor 11:14 "And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."

But angels cannot procreate:

Matt 22:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Clearly an angels existence is not the same as that of human beings. They do not marry nor are given in marriage. There clearly suggests no procreation exist among the angels, no need. Sexual relations has its place within the marriage institution germane to earth. God gave mankind the ability to procreate, not angels. Satan and the rest of the fallen angels hate the fact that God gave man the ability to create through procreation; something they can never do.

 

[iamsoandso]

Ill reword how I see things for you, I see Cain worshipping at his alter of vegetables as works based religion, he is the head of his family and spreads false religion, Seths line is not works based worship but faith based, but as people intermingle they too adopt work based religion. This motif is throughout scripture, this is why we are told not to let leaven into the church for it will spread. Why Israel was not to marry from the Canaanites for they would also adopt their Idols and so forth.

lol the only people I have heard saying such things are those who hold the angel view for example JohnB sets up strawmen by saying things like sin does not create giants in regards to the intermingling of Seths line, as far as I know no one holding this view thinks that, the reason he believes that is because angels sinned and created giants in his view, So since he believes angels sinning created giants he no doubt does not even realise he misinterprets my view.

lol, And see that's why I was pointing out the way you were wording this in your post(in hopes it was just an err in the wording so thanks for re-wording it)...

There are others other than those who see angels as sons of God who see this as an genetic trait there are those who promote the Serpent seed theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed where the Devil,Serpent,Dragon is who is the biological father of Cain(I see this as heresy).

Back to what I am speaking towards,,, If then the sons of God is representing Seth's children and Cain's children are representing the daughters of men then this is no longer an genetic disorder that is hereditary and passed down through Cain's offspring by genetics. This then is an ethnicity issue and not an racial issue in that it reflects their ethnic values https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity (I'm saying this because some are saying Gen. 6:4 is representing the same as you just explained but when you read their post they are wording this as genetic rather than ethnic.) in doing so their seeing this as an racial issue as if their is an race of beings on earth that is to be avoided because of genetics.

There in I think is the issue of Genesis 3 through 6-7 in that there is interpretation's of it representing an genetic issue or an ethnic issue. If it is to be interpreted as an ethnic issue then it would make no difference if Seth's sons took to wife Cain's daughters and ungodliness spread throughout the earth because both Seth's and Cain's children are implicated in this approach. In the other case if it be genetic in that it spread through Cain's children or from angels then there is an race of peoples on earth to be avoided. If Adam is the son of God and he(Adam) is the father of Cain,Able and Seth then if genetic God is it's origin. If there are no genetics involved in ungodliness and only ethnics are involved then it would make no difference if Seth's sons took to wife Cains daughters and the issue is that Seth's sons chose to become ungodly.

 

[JohnB]

This is not true. I happen to personally know a rabbi that teaches no such thing, and there are many differences of interpretation even among rabbinical scholars. Indeed, some teach of Adam's supposed first wife, Lilith.
And, going on my rabbi's teaching of sons of God and the Hebrew meaning of "Nephilim" as being men of a high estate falling for "common" women who were regarded in light of a low moral turpitude.

Since when do "men of high estate" produce giants?

There was no first wife name Lilith.

 

[iamsoandso]

Since when do "men of high estate" produce giants?

There was no first wife name Lilith.

Adam,Eve,Able,Cain, Seth ect. were only 1 or 2 foot tall,,,,JohnB we are the children of the giants!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

This is not true. I happen to personally know a rabbi that teaches no such thing, and there are many differences of interpretation even among rabbinical scholars. Indeed, some teach of Adam's supposed first wife, Lilith.
And, going on my rabbi's teaching of sons of God and the Hebrew meaning of "Nephilim" as being men of a high estate falling for "common" women who were regarded in light of a low moral turpitude.

I copy/pasted from a Torah Journal that Rabbis participate in.

Those were factual words that can be found in a variety of Ancient Hebrew Writings.

They have the Torah and the Tanakh and then many Books like the Talmud that have interpretations on the meaning of the Scriptures found within the Torah and Tanakh.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

This is not true.

Those Verses I used in the Post of mine you quoted, the Author, can also be found in many other Verses throughout the New Testament.

6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.

7 In the same way as these angels, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire



14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.



4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

^
Those represent 2 New Testament Books

And that doesn't include Luke, Galatians, and Hebrews, where more Verses are in the New Testament that are originally found in the same Book where the Scriptures I already provided in my Post to CS1. Where those Verses are found, so are these I provided in THIS Post, including offering up there's more elsewhere.


So, it is indeed True!

 

[Magenta]

Since when do "men of high estate" produce giants?

There was no first wife name Lilith.

That's the problem with rabbis and midrashim: embellishment of the Scriptural narrative. Many do
it, such as those who claim the angels leaving their first estate means they had sex with women.

Then they will quote Enoch and treat it as Scripture when historically it was not considered inspired.