Is faith WITHOUT works dead to GOD or Is faith WITHOUT works dead to man?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Is faith Without works dead to GOD or man?

  • FAITH without works Is dead to GOD.

  • FAITH without works Is NOT dead to GOD.

  • Faith without works Is dead to GOD AND man.

  • Faith without works Is dead to man only.

  • Other,I will explain.


Results are only viewable after voting.

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,432
6,708
113
#81
The thief on the cross did no physical works so then was his faith without doing any works dead to GOD?
The thief on the cross voiced aloud that Jesus had done no wrong but he, himself, was guilty of sin. Demonstrating publicly the one believes is works. I forgive the thief also because of his words of belief in Jesus.
(Bye declaring Jesus Yeshua was not guilty of wrong doing was declaring Jesus true to all He had taught throughout JUdea).
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#82
No works don't prove your justification or salvation, that is a whole other subject. Works prove your faith. So again, in the example of King Saul, when he disobeyed God by refusing to utterly destroy the Amalekites, but rather took a spoil of them, this constitutes a wicked work that proves he does not really have faith in God because he did not obey the commandment of God. Saul even attempts another wicked work, that is, he tries to do sacrifice of the spoils that he took to prove he has faith in God, yet God is not fooled by this, nor is Samuel, who says "what then is the bleating of these sheep in my ears?" So Saul's works proved that he has no real faith to both God and Samuel as he will prove over and over from that point forward through his wicked works.
Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith?Seems like the Pharisees were doing this.Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,349
29,595
113
#83
Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith? Seems like the Pharisees were
doing this. Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a
persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?
I think surely you must know the answer to these questions? I mean, right off the bat, we know that not one person
is righteous, and good works devoid of faith are as filthy rags, for without faith, it is impossible to please God.


Filthy rags in terms of salvation currency.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#85
This passage should clarify everything: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8,9)

So every Christian is foreordained to do good works as a part of his or her Christian walk. That is the result of genuine saving faith.
I thought you were saying that works are necessary for salvation,?my bad.🙂
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#87
The Bible is telling us how God sees things and we’re supposed to hear and learn from what he’s saying so we know and come to know his thoughts about things

faith is something he teaches man about if we have a different idea about faith from God we then need tomlewrn from him about it so we can be corrected in our error

a what I’m saying is faith is just faith the New Testament teaches us what it is and what it’s like one of the lessons about faith in the New Testament is what you quoted

The idea is for Jesus disciples to learn what he said about things like faith and agree with him knowing he’s correct and we that disagrees are wrong teacher and students is Jesus and his disciples


The truth is written and we’re meant to learn it faith without works is dead being alone this is just the truth it’s true to God and he told man the truth about it it’s a matter of who will accept it learn of it and believe moving forward letting it do this

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Bible is teaching us the truth about faith when it says “ don’t just say it actually live as if you believe it act in it “

the problem is some don’t want to hear that they want faith tonjist be something you say and don’t have to do anything the Bible says things like that to change our thinking about that so we start to think in line with Gods word “ yes I agree faith isnt just a word I say , it’s shown by my actions “
Nevertheless does a person have to do works to prove that they are saved to GOD?
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#88
If one reads Romans 2:5-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

For believers, their works will be judged to determine rewards and loss of rewards. (1Corinthians 3:11-15)
Well said.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#89
The thief on the cross voiced aloud that Jesus had done no wrong but he, himself, was guilty of sin. Demonstrating publicly the one believes is works. I forgive the thief also because of his words of belief in Jesus.
(Bye declaring Jesus Yeshua was not guilty of wrong doing was declaring Jesus true to all He had taught throughout JUdea).
Do you believe that If a person believes In JESUS that that believing IS the same as works?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#90
Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith?Seems like the Pharisees were doing this.Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?
Certainly. People can have good works without saving faith. But if they are counting on their works to gain entry into Heaven, they will be sorely disappointed. Every religion -- other than Bible Christianity -- teaches its adherents to expect salvation through good works. But unless the penalty for sins is paid, there is no salvation. And that is why God sent Christ to pay the penalty for the sins of the world.

However those who have been justified by grace through faith are to "maintain" good works.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men... And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. (Titus 3:8,14)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,432
6,708
113
#91
Do you believe that If a person believes In JESUS that that believing IS the same as works?
Was not Abraham, our forefather, credited with righteousness because he belieed God? It was also considered a work. So it is with all who believe Jesus Yeshua, Who is called Father eternal, Ruler of Peace, Comforter, Counselor God Almighty. Yes It is works, and it will lead anyone who truly believes to more than just lilp service.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#92
HIS<-workmanship CREATED In CHRIST—>JESUS—->UNTO—>good works Is the key to understanding that scripture IMO🙂.I have a question for you—->If a person does good works BEFORE GOD does work In them are they saved?

sidenote:GOD looks at the heart,man looks at outward appearances.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#93
Taken away, or simply not given? .:unsure:
Good question. I see it as a loss of rewards that the Lord wants to give for service.

1 Corinthians 3
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#94
Certainly. People can have good works without saving faith. But if they are counting on their works to gain entry into Heaven, they will be sorely disappointed. Every religion -- other than Bible Christianity -- teaches its adherents to expect salvation through good works. But unless the penalty for sins is paid, there is no salvation. And that is why God sent Christ to pay the penalty for the sins of the world.

However those who have been justified by grace through faith are to "maintain" good works.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men... And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. (Titus 3:8,14)
And if the believer does not go on to good works, he will lose his rewards, but he himself shall be saved.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#95
Was not Abraham, our forefather, credited with righteousness because he belieed God? It was also considered a work. So it is with all who believe Jesus Yeshua, Who is called Father eternal, Ruler of Peace, Comforter, Counselor God Almighty. Yes It is works, and it will lead anyone who truly believes to more than just lilp service.
I understand what you are saying but I just don’t agree with your Interpretation that believing Is equal to works which will be rewarded at the JSOC (judgement seat of CHRIST)I believe that faith alone In JESUS saves but a person that Is saved Will do good works.
 
May 24, 2023
573
111
43
#96
Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith?Seems like the Pharisees were doing this.Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?
Yes someone could do good works and not have faith in God on the principle that even sinners love eachother and will perform good deeds to one another, the nuance here being where that faith is placed, which would not be in God but would be in eachothe, though those good works would still prove they have faith in and of itself, just not the faith in God.

You cannot really tell if someone is saved or not in any wise based on anything really since of course God judges that.

A person's good works with or without faith mean nothing to God, the fact is that he is God and we are but mortals, that's where no amount of works good or evil really matters to God in terms of salvation, as it is written "we are unworthy to worship you (God), all our righteousness is like a filthy rag." This is where I think the topic gets muddled and conflated as there are two different issues here; one issue being the nature of salvation which is by the grace of God alone, not through works. The other issue being that of the headline, that works prove one's faith and that without good works their faith is just their own vanity basically, and dead.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,830
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#97
.
Faith without works is like a dead battery. It has no energy to speak of, but
it's still a battery; and it likely still has the manufacturer's brand name on it.

"After that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise."
(Eph 1:1)
_
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
119
53
28
#98
Notice that the verse does not say that dead faith will stay that way.
In Fact, James is teaching the opposite.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#99
I don't fully understand the question. Faith without works is certainly dead. It a person's faith, which I take to mean it is not actually faith. Which answer covers that?[/QUOTE

The question doesn't concern me. The scripture only says faith without works is dead; that's good enough for me.
If you didn’t participate In the poll though,how would anyone know If understand that scripture though?
I meant to say,If you didn't participate In the poll at the top of this page ,how would anyone understand what you mean when you quote that scripture
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,349
6,653
113
62
I understood that. I didn't understand the to man or God part. Looking at what I wrote, where would you assign my vote?