water baptism in Jesus' Name.

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Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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141
43
First you say that you're talking about Salvation (through baptism), but then you end by saying that only with baptism can we be saved...?
I said no such thing.
This is what I wrote: "We are forgiven of our sins through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
The question is when." Post# 1278
Look it up.


BTW, if you think that Act 22:16 is the magic formula to be saved... I guess that since it doesn't include "believing", that you don't think that necessary for salvation?
Acts 22:16 was a command with a promise given to a believing Paul, so unless you think that Paul was a unbelieving person your comment is convoluted.
 
F

FollowingtheWay

Guest
Baptism isn’t necessary for salvation. we should want to be obedient to our King Jesus however. Though I must say something unique happened in my own baptism recently . Now,I’m sure certain theological and doctrinal experts will trample this post to the ground and I’m ok with that. Say what you will…. but I experienced a shift in my personal character a bit not radically but gently and subtly in the days and weeks after water baptism I observed that I became bolder and more willing to open up about my personal and spiritual life to other believers where prior I was very much comfortable being private, quiet and hidden. Prior to my water baptism I had been a believer for about 3 years and regularly attending a Church but didn’t feel much connection with the congregation and was more comfortable being a back pew and quick efficient worshiper. After that baptism in the weeks that followed there became a feeling of familiarity with the congregation, they stopped being strangers in my mind and became more family like . I went from feeling like accepted but a bit of an outsider to more of a brotherhood and partner willing to engage in community, prayer and worship with those around me , nowadays I’m a 3 rows from the front kind of worshipper where I’d love to see longer services and longer worship music where prior I was about quick and efficient worship . There was also a new willingness to engage nonbelievers where prior my cowardly and passive flesh would cause me to keep silent . I sincerely believe I experienced a moving of Holy Spirit. now weather that happened because of the water baptism or because I submitted myself to the spiritual authorities appointed over me while in obedience to Christ I’m not sure. But something was different . I think some in Christendom call this a “filling of Holy Spirits power” I still don’t know what to make of it but it has been a pretty cool experience .
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
Note: I have decided to cancel my question:
"Would God Have us All Solve The Massive Confusion of baptisms?"
due to lack of interest, and take a chance on some brief thoughts here about:

And all God's people said "Amen!" Amen?

With all due respect: ( almost ) no one except God, In The Dispensation Of His Grace.

With all due respect: No one except the church of christ, and some other
baptismal-regeneration ( works-for-salvation ) groups...

With all due respect: You do realize of course that 'fire' in Scripture is associated with 'judgment'? I believe 'salvation' is associated with God's Justification. Amen?

With all due respect:

All who say 'yes, get water baptized' after as you Very Well Pointed Out: "we
Are Already Baptized By ONE Baptism, BY The Holy Spirit ), have a (bad math =
TWO baptismS problem), plus an additional Very Severe problem, teaching at
least 12 ( 'standard practice' ) Different doctrines about water ( the Biggest
Divider in Christendom? List of these available, IF anyone wishes... )

With all due respect, this small summary of Three Of 13 Bible baptisms, may be
helpful in this discussion, I hope and pray: LORD, Please Give us all understanding.
Amen.
-----------------------
With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches:

Three Bible Baptisms:

God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, YESTERDAY!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12 ) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Context Of Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, TODAY!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today:

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE

Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
----------------------------------
This have also been Very Helpful:

Water That Divides!!
-------------------------
My own personal study for solving Confusion, by prayerful/Careful
consideration of This Eternally Important Matter, ok?:

ONE Baptism

Amen.

--------------------------------------

God's ONE Baptism:




If, precious friend(s), you do not have this yet, with God, you can have:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!
The "one baptism" that saves us from this world is the one by which we are placed into the body of Christ: the baptism by the Holy Spirit.
The baptism by the Holy Spirit is both metaphysical and indefinite and as such cannot be commanded. Peter, John the Baptist, Ananias, Philip etc. were not commanding the baptism by the Holy Spirit but water baptism for the remission of sins.

It is sin that puts us under His wrath.
It is the remission of sins that puts us under His Grace.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
Note: I have decided to cancel my question:
"Would God Have us All Solve The Massive Confusion of baptisms?"
due to lack of interest, and take a chance on some brief thoughts here about:

And all God's people said "Amen!" Amen?

With all due respect: ( almost ) no one except God, In The Dispensation Of His Grace.

With all due respect: No one except the church of christ, and some other
baptismal-regeneration ( works-for-salvation ) groups...

With all due respect: You do realize of course that 'fire' in Scripture is associated with 'judgment'? I believe 'salvation' is associated with God's Justification. Amen?

With all due respect:

All who say 'yes, get water baptized' after as you Very Well Pointed Out: "we
Are Already Baptized By ONE Baptism, BY The Holy Spirit ), have a (bad math =
TWO baptismS problem), plus an additional Very Severe problem, teaching at
least 12 ( 'standard practice' ) Different doctrines about water ( the Biggest
Divider in Christendom? List of these available, IF anyone wishes... )

With all due respect, this small summary of Three Of 13 Bible baptisms, may be
helpful in this discussion, I hope and pray: LORD, Please Give us all understanding.
Amen.
-----------------------
With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches:

Three Bible Baptisms:

God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, YESTERDAY!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12 ) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Context Of Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, TODAY!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today:

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE

Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
----------------------------------
This have also been Very Helpful:

Water That Divides!!
-------------------------
My own personal study for solving Confusion, by prayerful/Careful
consideration of This Eternally Important Matter, ok?:

ONE Baptism

Amen.

--------------------------------------

God's ONE Baptism:




If, precious friend(s), you do not have this yet, with God, you can have:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!
With all due respect: No one except the church of christ, and some other
baptismal-regeneration ( works-for-salvation ) groups...

With all due respect: I have known sincere people of both baptismal regeneration theology and faith alone regeneration theology and have never heard either one present a "(works-for-salvation)" solution for the remission of sins.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
Note: I have decided to cancel my question:
"Would God Have us All Solve The Massive Confusion of baptisms?"
due to lack of interest, and take a chance on some brief thoughts here about:

And all God's people said "Amen!" Amen?

With all due respect: ( almost ) no one except God, In The Dispensation Of His Grace.

With all due respect: No one except the church of christ, and some other
baptismal-regeneration ( works-for-salvation ) groups...

With all due respect: You do realize of course that 'fire' in Scripture is associated with 'judgment'? I believe 'salvation' is associated with God's Justification. Amen?

With all due respect:

All who say 'yes, get water baptized' after as you Very Well Pointed Out: "we
Are Already Baptized By ONE Baptism, BY The Holy Spirit ), have a (bad math =
TWO baptismS problem), plus an additional Very Severe problem, teaching at
least 12 ( 'standard practice' ) Different doctrines about water ( the Biggest
Divider in Christendom? List of these available, IF anyone wishes... )

With all due respect, this small summary of Three Of 13 Bible baptisms, may be
helpful in this discussion, I hope and pray: LORD, Please Give us all understanding.
Amen.
-----------------------
With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches:

Three Bible Baptisms:

God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, YESTERDAY!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12 ) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Context Of Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, TODAY!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today:

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE

Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
----------------------------------
This have also been Very Helpful:

Water That Divides!!
-------------------------
My own personal study for solving Confusion, by prayerful/Careful
consideration of This Eternally Important Matter, ok?:

ONE Baptism

Amen.

--------------------------------------

God's ONE Baptism:




If, precious friend(s), you do not have this yet, with God, you can have:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!
Cameron143 said:
No one is saying don't get baptized. They are saying baptism doesn't result in salvation.
With all due respect: ( almost ) no one except God, In The Dispensation Of His Grace.

Are you saying that you believe people should not be water baptized? Period?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,201
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Cameron143 said:
No one is saying don't get baptized. They are saying baptism doesn't result in salvation.
With all due respect: ( almost ) no one except God, In The Dispensation Of His Grace.

Are you saying that you believe people should not be water baptized? Period?
Not at all. But I am saying if someone believes and for some reason wasn't baptized, it wouldn't affect their salvation.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
Not at all. But I am saying if someone believes and for some reason wasn't baptized, it wouldn't affect their salvation.
This was not about your comment but GRACE_ambassador response to your comment.
Refer to post # 1298
I am well aware you believe water baptism is optional.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,201
6,608
113
62
This was not about your comment but GRACE_ambassador response to your comment.
Refer to post # 1298
I am well aware you believe water baptism is optional.
Optional doesn't exactly describe what I believe. I don't believe it's necessary to salvation. But I do believe it should be done.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
Optional doesn't exactly describe what I believe. I don't believe it's necessary to salvation. But I do believe it should be done.
Why does optional not describe what you believe?
Optional
ŏp′shə-nəl
adjective
  1. Left to choice; not compulsory or automatic.
  2. Involving an option; depending on the exercise of an option; left to one's discretion or choice; allowed but not compulsory.
  3. Not compulsory; left to personal choice; elective
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,201
6,608
113
62
Why does optional not describe what you believe?
Optional
ŏp′shə-nəl
adjective
  1. Left to choice; not compulsory or automatic.
  2. Involving an option; depending on the exercise of an option; left to one's discretion or choice; allowed but not compulsory.
  3. Not compulsory; left to personal choice; elective
Because it's a command. Commandments aren't optional. God expects them to be done.
Something can be unnecessary for a certain purpose or end without being optional concerning another. I might not need a vehicle to acquire a job, but it may well be necessary to get to work each day.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,141
29,453
113
I believe sometimes when one decides to leave by 'deleting' their account,
then the status would post as 'banned' but I could be mistaken?
When a member leaves of their own volition and asks to have their account deleted (mod has to do it),
Guest then shows up under their name, and everything associated with their account is gone except
for the posts that remain on the boards. When someone is banned, it is usually because they have
done something which has broken the rules. In that case,
Banned shows up under their name,
but their profile, though not viewable, remains, and their post history is therefore still searchable.
Someone who has become a guest is free to join again under the same or a different name.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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With all due respect. Is this what Jesus says - "only believe, and don't bother getting baptized"?
No. He says:

Mark 16,16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

Do someone call themselves a true christian, when they haven't gotten themselves baptized in a true church? No.
So what happened to and is baptized in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I can't think of one true Christian I know who refused to receive water baptism after their conversion. I also can't think of one true Christian I know who trusts in water baptism for salvation and not in Christ alone. It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, but if someone is on their death bed and cannot get baptized before death, they are still saved because they BELIEVED (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Anyone professing to have believed in Jesus unto salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion. I even gave about a 5 minute testimony on how I finally came to believe the gospel just before I was water baptized.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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Because it's a command. Commandments aren't optional. God expects them to be done..
Exactly. These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:44-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation that saved them. (Acts 10:43)
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
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83
First you say that you're talking about Salvation (through baptism), but then you end by saying that only with baptism can we be saved...?
I said no such thing.
This is what I wrote: "We are forgiven of our sins through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
The question is when." Post# 1278
Look it up.


BTW, if you think that Act 22:16 is the magic formula to be saved... I guess that since it doesn't include "believing", that you don't think that necessary for salvation?
Acts 22:16 was a command with a promise given to a believing Paul, so unless you think that Paul was a unbelieving person your comment is convoluted.
Actually, you wrote:

And no one is saying that baptism results in salvation.
and then:

The words of Jesus are clear: disbelieve and die
or believe and be baptized and live.
(emphasis added)

To me, that's both saying that baptism is not needed for salvation and then saying that it is... convoluted.

Also, you say that it's a command and, seemingly imply, that's it's a prescriptive way (formula) to be saved... and I merely pointed out that it does not command belief... I wonder how you can overlook all the Scriptures (commands) that don't include baptism but talk about belief?

See, I believe that Paul was saved because he believed, and then he got baptized as an outward confession of that belief and Salvation.
But my point is that you seem to have this as a "pet verse" to prove that baptism is required for Salvation, to the exclusion of other Scripture, but then deny that you're preaching a "works-based" message.

I believe that you are right, in that we need to obey the commands of Jesus... I just believe that we do that after we are Saved by Faith/Belief.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,215
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Midwest
op: water baptism commanded?
Though you have ignored my question and therefore feel no need to answer yours I will extend the grace and answer your questions to me.
I am very sorry, I apologize for the error of my ways, and Very Much appreciate
what you have extended to me. Praise God! One more question if that is ok?:
Because it's a command. Commandments aren't optional.
ok then, let us take this route of commandments "that Are Not optional"?:

I have decided to Follow Jesus?

A) Do I follow Him, and the doctrine He Spoke as The:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5 Mar 1:4 24:47)
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(Jam 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23)
+
8) pray as a watchman, for Great Tribulation, man of sin, son of perdition, and
signs of the end times, and Second Coming?

Do I follow His earthly prophecy program of covenants and law?
( OT, Mat - John, Heb - Rev ) or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

B) Do I follow Him As The Risen And Glorified "Head Of His Church" and:

His Heavenly Grace Program, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery?
(His Doctrine in Romans - Philemon)

1) Have repentance toward God (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!")
(Acts 20:21)
+
2) Have faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21), and trust/believe The Gospel
Of The Grace Of God: His Death ( ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross ), Burial, And
Resurrection, According To The Scripture (Ephesians 2:5-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
+
3) Acknowledge I am Spiritually Baptized By The ONE Baptism Of The Holy Spirit
Into The ONE (Spiritual Organism) Body Of Christ, Seated In the Heavenlies
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13)
+
4) Acknowledge Christ Is Living in me, so I allow Him to, through me:
+
5) To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In ONE Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)
+
6) Study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided to show myself "Approved Unto God"
(2 Timothy 2:15), and all the rest of these Bible study rules!
+
7) Work with my hands to "give to them in need," and the LORD "shall supply all my need"
(Ephesians 4:28; 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12; 1 Timothy 5:8)
+
8) Be a humble prayer warrior and:
"...look, watch, and Patiently WAIT For..." = The LORD Jesus Christ!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
9) Put on the FULL armour of God and stand, in the spiritual warfare I wrestle with
(Ephesians 6:10-18)
+
10)
Eph 6:19 "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I
may open my mouth boldly, to make known the Mystery Of The Gospel,"
+
11)
Eph 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of The Mystery, which from the
beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ"
+
12) Acknowledge that I am going to give an account at Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:8-15;
Romans 14:12), at my Heavenly Home-Going ( Great GRACE Departure! )

According to these and all the details of God's Sound Doctrinal Blueprint In
Romans Through Philemon?
(1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9):

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Or:

C) Do I speak after following the Many, who homogenize A) + B) into
Massive Confusion?

final question would be: Which Option, Under Grace Today, should I take
To Honor and Glorify God?


Precious friend(s), thanks again. I appreciate all your prayerful and careful
consideration of this Eternally Important Matter.

Amen.

Extra Related study Bonus:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,201
6,608
113
62
op: water baptism commanded?

I am very sorry, I apologize for the error of my ways, and Very Much appreciate
what you have extended to me. Praise God! One more question if that is ok?:

ok then, let us take this route of commandments "that Are Not optional"?:

I have decided to Follow Jesus?

A) Do I follow Him, and the doctrine He Spoke as The:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5 Mar 1:4 24:47)
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(Jam 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23)
+
8) pray as a watchman, for Great Tribulation, man of sin, son of perdition, and
signs of the end times, and Second Coming?

Do I follow His earthly prophecy program of covenants and law?
( OT, Mat - John, Heb - Rev ) or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

B) Do I follow Him As The Risen And Glorified "Head Of His Church" and:

His Heavenly Grace Program, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery?
(His Doctrine in Romans - Philemon)

1) Have repentance toward God (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!")
(Acts 20:21)
+
2) Have faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21), and trust/believe The Gospel
Of The Grace Of God: His Death ( ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross ), Burial, And
Resurrection, According To The Scripture (Ephesians 2:5-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
+
3) Acknowledge I am Spiritually Baptized By The ONE Baptism Of The Holy Spirit
Into The ONE (Spiritual Organism) Body Of Christ, Seated In the Heavenlies
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13)
+
4) Acknowledge Christ Is Living in me, so I allow Him to, through me:
+
5) To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In ONE Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)
+
6) Study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided to show myself "Approved Unto God"
(2 Timothy 2:15), and all the rest of these Bible study rules!
+
7) Work with my hands to "give to them in need," and the LORD "shall supply all my need"
(Ephesians 4:28; 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12; 1 Timothy 5:8)
+
8) Be a humble prayer warrior and:
"...look, watch, and Patiently WAIT For..." = The LORD Jesus Christ!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
9) Put on the FULL armour of God and stand, in the spiritual warfare I wrestle with
(Ephesians 6:10-18)
+
10)
Eph 6:19 "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I
may open my mouth boldly, to make known the Mystery Of The Gospel,"
+
11)
Eph 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of The Mystery, which from the
beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ"
+
12) Acknowledge that I am going to give an account at Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:8-15;
Romans 14:12), at my Heavenly Home-Going ( Great GRACE Departure! )

According to these and all the details of God's Sound Doctrinal Blueprint In
Romans Through Philemon?
(1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9):

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Or:

C) Do I speak after following the Many, who homogenize A) + B) into
Massive Confusion?

final question would be: Which Option, Under Grace Today, should I take
To Honor and Glorify God?


Precious friend(s), thanks again. I appreciate all your prayerful and careful
consideration of this Eternally Important Matter.

Amen.

Extra Related study Bonus:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.
My job is to seek His kingdom and His righteousness; the rest is His.

So perhaps a better question: what is entailed in seeking His kingdom and His righteousness?
 
Jun 11, 2023
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So what happened to and is baptized in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I can't think of one true Christian I know who refused to receive water baptism after their conversion. I also can't think of one true Christian I know who trusts in water baptism for salvation and not in Christ alone. It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, but if someone is on their death bed and cannot get baptized before death, they are still saved because they BELIEVED (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Anyone professing to have believed in Jesus unto salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion. I even gave about a 5 minute testimony on how I finally came to believe the gospel just before I was water baptized.
To get baptized is like a confession - a statement, that you believe in this church's teaching. Look up the 10th chapter in the Romans. Ask me if you don't understand what I mean.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
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I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.
My job is to seek His kingdom and His righteousness; the rest is His.

So perhaps a better question: what is entailed in seeking His kingdom and His righteousness?
I just ask Jesus every morning to be like him and ask the Holy Spirit to help me.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,201
6,608
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I just ask Jesus every morning to be like him and ask the Holy Spirit to help me.
I get up each day and read 2 Corinthians 3:18 and remember that I am changed from glory to glory when I'm in His presence and I make every effort to abide with Him all day.
 
May 19, 2023
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Amen Magenta! Water baptism "follows" the conversion account of these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47, as I already explained multiple times in this thread. Again, these Gentiles had already believed in Him, received remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE receiving water baptism. The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid these Gentiles from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13) Of course, water-salvationists simply ignore this.

As I also previously explained, the phrase, “in Jesus' name,” is not a reference to a salvation baptismal formula but a reference to authority. Therefore, these water-salvationists are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done using the specific words, "In Jesus name" as a "salvation formula." Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19). The proper way to baptize in Jesus’ name (by the authority of Jesus) is to say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

These water-salvationists choose to reject the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 and prefer to pit scripture against scripture, as long as it accommodates their perverted water gospel. They won't even listen to Christian Greek scholars on the subject. These folks would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water and their minds are waterlogged. :(

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* :)


Hi Mailman,

All you said makes sense when you use an unscriptural definition of believe. Just so you know, when the KJV was being translated into English, they used the word faith. The English word Faith does not have a verb and so they used another English word : believe, believing, believes.

The definition you have faith is the same definition for hope. Hope is trust. Faith is not just trust, but also has works. Read James 2:14-16. The works that James speaks about does not violate what it says in Ephesians 2:8-9 for Romans 4:1-5 as the Bible lists two types of works: Works of righteousness (Titus 3:5) in which we earn our way to heaven, which is impossible. The other work that is mentioned is a "work of faith". (1 Thessalonians 1:3 and 2Thessalonians 1:11).

This all makes sense in reading: (Heb 11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. One can see both substance and evidence. Look what Jesus noticed:

(Mat 9:2) And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Whenever the words: faith, or believe is used in the New Testament, they always include two things: trust and works. Read Colossians 2:11-13 below and you can see how baptism is a work of faith.


(Col 2:11) and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

(Col 2:12) having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

(Col 2:13) When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Thank you, Mailman, for listining!
Wayne