The gift of increased faith

[Fundaamental]

What the bible teaches about outer body experiences is, it does not say it doesn't happen for Christians,

Paul’s Vision and His Thorn
1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it no was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.
6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say,


7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

We see Paul doesn't know whether it was an outer body experience from a friend he knew.

Or he was taken up in body.

But Paul is suggesting he will not boast about his own outer body experience, and even goes onto say he has been given a thorn into being conceited into doing so.

I wonder the reason behind that, ?.

Could be the truth he will reveal will cause people to not believe, as he says he knows it's true.

Why would he say this ?.

So that is truth could be understood about weakness regarding other matters of the heart and flesh.

As, if he told of his experience of being taken away by God in an outer body experience people would think how come you have weakness, when you are like a prophet 😊

There could be more reasons to 😊

 

[Fundaamental]

Edit
@Blain this is for you friend,

What the bible teaches about outer body experiences is, it does not say it doesn't happen for Christians,

Paul’s Vision and His Thorn
1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it no was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.
6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say,


7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

We see Paul doesn't know whether it was an outer body experience from a friend he knew.

Or he was taken up in body.

But Paul is suggesting he will not boast about his own outer body experience, and even goes onto say he has been given a thorn into being conceited into doing so.

I wonder the reason behind that, ?.

Could be the truth paul will reveal about outer body experiences, will cause people to not believe about other matters , as he says he knows it's true.

Why would he say this ?.

So that his truth could be understood about weakness, regarding other matters of the heart and flesh.

As, if he told of his experience of being taken away by God in an outer body experience, people would think how come you have weakness, when you are like a prophet 😊

There could be more reasons to 😊

 

[Blain]

Edit
@Blain this is for you friend,

What the bible teaches about outer body experiences is, it does not say it doesn't happen for Christians,

Paul’s Vision and His Thorn
1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it no was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.
6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say,


7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

We see Paul doesn't know whether it was an outer body experience from a friend he knew.

Or he was taken up in body.

But Paul is suggesting he will not boast about his own outer body experience, and even goes onto say he has been given a thorn into being conceited into doing so.

I wonder the reason behind that, ?.

Could be the truth paul will reveal about outer body experiences, will cause people to not believe about other matters , as he says he knows it's true.

Why would he say this ?.

So that his truth could be understood about weakness, regarding other matters of the heart and flesh.

As, if he told of his experience of being taken away by God in an outer body experience, people would think how come you have weakness, when you are like a prophet 😊

There could be more reasons to 😊

I think my friend this is something for you personally to go into and study. I will say it is deep but I don't experience a lot of the things you do and I honestly cannot make sense of it it isn't really clicking.

I may just have a different way of doing things with him and that is why it doesn't register. I experience him powerfully but then we move on we never stay in the same area that he teaches and guides and lets me just a bit closer to the goal

The experiences are just the taste of the real thing.

 

[Fundaamental]

I think my friend this is something for you personally to go into and study. I will say it is deep but I don't experience a lot of the things you do and I honestly cannot make sense of it it isn't really clicking.

I may just have a different way of doing things with him and that is why it doesn't register. I experience him powerfully but then we move on we never stay in the same area that he teaches and guides and lets me just a bit closer to the goal

The experiences are just the taste of the real thing.

I'm lost by your response, by your own words you have described outer body experiences, but pass this of as something you don't understand,

I haven't brought my outer body experience into this either ?

I haven't got a clue why you would consider it deep,

There is stories of other outer body experiences from prophets too.

I think your missing the point here. Maybe re read what I've just said to see the main point in post 42.

 

[Fundaamental]

What is happening here ?

Is it an outer body experience. Look at the questions in bold.

Baring in mind Jesus is body and spirit satan is only spirit.

Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[b]”

Seems to be a huge gap here

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.

How did Jesus get from the point he was befor to this point so quickly



6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”



8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

How did Jesus get from the point he was befor so quickly to this point with the devil.


9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”



11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

 

[Blain]

I'm lost by your response, by your own words you have described outer body experiences, but pass this of as something you don't understand,

I haven't brought my outer body experience into this either ?

I haven't got a clue why you would consider it deep,

There is stories of other outer body experiences from prophets too.

I think your missing the point here. Maybe re read what I've just said to see the main point in post 42.

No I don't have outer body experience that is not the same thing as being spiritually taken. what people call outer of body experiences is a copy of the real thing and it comes with dangers. An out of body experience is usually when the soul leaves the body and is able to do all kinds of things your free a

But this freedom come with a cost because this is not a thing from God is just a mimicking from the devil. When your in this state your unaware of the dangers that are all around you they can see you now like really see you and sometimes you encounter them like in horros stories you hear about them sometimes they appear as an angel of light showing all kinds of brilliance and beautiful amazing things but this may seem heavenly however remeber how we are to test the spirits it can be easy for his elect to be dcieved in this way.


They leave fingerprints you are not aware of in some way or form it infects you. To be taken in the spirit is different. I am not in control when it happens in fact I never have control over it but I sumbit to him. In the spiritual I am often here physical but my spirit and make not of that word spirit not soul is elsewhere.

I notice you mention consciousness the mind a trance which I actually have had only one true trance from the holy spirit so I am not talking down on that.

But in this place it is different you speak and act what is in your heart there is no consciousness or element of the mind thought comes a different way and does different things here because it is not the thoughts of physical descent.

If I am taken anywhere it is normally for the benifet of others or for God to show or treach me something and many times I have to have my heart tested there.

But there is a always a real solid purpose for it

 

[Fundaamental]

No I don't have outer body experience that is not the same thing as being spiritually taken. what people call outer of body experiences is a copy of the real thing and it comes with dangers. An out of body experience is usually when the soul leaves the body and is able to do all kinds of things your free a

But this freedom come with a cost because this is not a thing from God is just a mimicking from the devil. When your in this state your unaware of the dangers that are all around you they can see you now like really see you and sometimes you encounter them like in horros stories you hear about them sometimes they appear as an angel of light showing all kinds of brilliance and beautiful amazing things but this may seem heavenly however remeber how we are to test the spirits it can be easy for his elect to be dcieved in this way.


They leave fingerprints you are not aware of in some way or form it infects you. To be taken in the spirit is different. I am not in control when it happens in fact I never have control over it but I sumbit to him. In the spiritual I am often here physical but my spirit and make not of that word spirit not soul is elsewhere.

I notice you mention consciousness the mind a trance which I actually have had only one true trance from the holy spirit so I am not talking down on that.

But in this place it is different you speak and act what is in your heart there is no consciousness or element of the mind thought comes a different way and does different things here because it is not the thoughts of physical descent.

If I am taken anywhere it is normally for the benifet of others or for God to show or treach me something and many times I have to have my heart tested there.

But there is a always a real solid purpose for it

Your talking about people trying to make there soul leave there body, the nut jobs.

That's a conspiracy by some luny.

I'm talking about an angel carrying your outer conscious away whilst the holy spirit protects your inner conscience. Then that angel tends to you and returns your outer conscience back to your inner conscience.

This has nothing to do with nutjobs you mentioned.

What you ask and pray for is often what you'll receive in Good time 😊

How else would God lead you by the spirit to see his kingdom.

Or transport you to another time.

Lol Nothing to do with trying to do this for your self 😊

The reason why I even brought it up was to bring understanding to Peter, standing on water.it grows faith rather than doubt to understand it. 😊

 

[brighthouse98]

You have made some very interesting point Fundaafenta! I would just throw this out there to consider as well, How can one know that one has the gift of faith? Well, I believe this gift comes with another gift for faith cannot work without love (Gal 5:6) and with true love miracles can also occur such as Rasing the dead, or such has happened in our Church a tongue grows back from a cancer tongue!!

All gifts are in every person, for the Holy Spirit does not come in part but rather as a whole person, now we know not all will manifest every gift, but that does not mean theses same gifts are not in us.

For the Word says that is no respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34-35) So why is it all cannot manifest all gifts? Because we then would not have need of one another! The Church is made up of a body of believers. (1 Cor chapter 12 explains this perfectly!!) This chapter by itself is a worthwhile study!! Just my thought on this subject. Blessing!!

 

[Blain]

Your talking about people trying to make there soul leave there body, the nut jobs.

That's a conspiracy by some luny.

I'm talking about an angel carrying your outer conscious away whilst the holy spirit protects your inner conscience. Then that angel tends to you and returns your outer conscience back to your inner conscience.

This has nothing to do with nutjobs you mentioned.

What you ask and pray for is often what you'll receive in Good time 😊

How else would God lead you by the spirit to see his kingdom.

Or transport you to another time.

Lol Nothing to do with trying to do this for your self 😊

The reason why I even brought it up was to bring understanding to Peter, standing on water.it grows faith rather than doubt to understand it. 😊

I see. What your talking about I don't think we should call an outer body experience what your experiencing my friend well I will explain to you in a pm this is deep stuff that is spiritual and can only be recieved by the spiritual.