The True Church

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Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
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firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#1
Wednesday 8-9-23 3rd. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, AV 22 5783, 50th. Summer Day

Matthew 16:13-20

Revelation Of The Person Of The King


13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Revelation Of The Church

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Love, Walter And Debbie
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#2
Let me ask you something Walter. Was Jesus created?
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
678
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#3
I am surprised that would bring up that misrepresented 18th verse regarding the church and Peter.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#4
I truly believe the "true church" would absolutely be the members of the Body of Yeshua, it must be.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,315
3,618
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#5
No ResidentAlien, your question is Off-topic, but If interested, maybe this will help: The Pre-Existence Of Christ - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
That post you linked to looks like it was lifted almost word-for-word from Dankenbring's The Awesome Mystery of God. In that same book he says:

"Notice! Here is further confirmation that Christ Himself was 'created'--that the Logos was the 'firstborn' or 'firstfruit' of ALL CREATION (Col.1:15). He was first 'born' of God--and then 'by him were all [other] things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible.' The real 'mystery' is why so few people understand this truth! The vast majority believe that Christ ALWAYS existed, as a member of the Godhead. But that is not what this passage says! He Himself was born of God, before the rest of creation was created!" (pg. 14, bold mine)​

And:

"Jesus introduces His message of blistering rebuke to the Laodicean church era/age with the words and revelation that He 'is the BEGINNING of the creation of God'! Thus He tells them right up front that He was the 'firstfruits,' the "firstborn" of ALL God's Creative works of old--and that therefore He Himself has a beginning, an origin, in and from the Father!" (pg. 15, bold mine)​

Dankenbring clearly identifies Christ as part of the creation with a beginning. He essentially says that when Christ is called God's "firstborn," it means He was God's first creation. Since you appear to be a fan of Dankenbring, I just wondered if you agree with him.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
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firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#6
That post you linked to looks like it was lifted almost word-for-word from Dankenbring's The Awesome Mystery of God. In that same book he says:

"Notice! Here is further confirmation that Christ Himself was 'created'--that the Logos was the 'firstborn' or 'firstfruit' of ALL CREATION (Col.1:15). He was first 'born' of God--and then 'by him were all [other] things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible.' The real 'mystery' is why so few people understand this truth! The vast majority believe that Christ ALWAYS existed, as a member of the Godhead. But that is not what this passage says! He Himself was born of God, before the rest of creation was created!" (pg. 14, bold mine)​

And:

"Jesus introduces His message of blistering rebuke to the Laodicean church era/age with the words and revelation that He 'is the BEGINNING of the creation of God'! Thus He tells them right up front that He was the 'firstfruits,' the "firstborn" of ALL God's Creative works of old--and that therefore He Himself has a beginning, an origin, in and from the Father!" (pg. 15, bold mine)​

Dankenbring clearly identifies Christ as part of the creation with a beginning. He essentially says that when Christ is called God's "firstborn," it means He was God's first creation. Since you appear to be a fan of Dankenbring, I just wondered if you agree with him.
In some things, I do agree with him, but in all things, I search for the truth.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,315
3,618
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#7
In some things, I do agree with him, but in all things, I search for the truth.
I'm still curious if you agree with him on this one. Most people here would disagree with Dankenbring so it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal to say you also disagree, if you do.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,164
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#8
Wednesday 8-9-23 3rd. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, AV 22 5783, 50th. Summer Day

Matthew 16:13-20

Revelation Of The Person Of The King


13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Revelation Of The Church

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Love, Walter And Debbie
Amen

and look at Peters witness here

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:2-4, 14-18, 22-24, 29-33, 36-39, 41, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then look at what Paul is saying here to those converted later

“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judæa are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:13-16‬ ‭

eventually the church are the disciples of Jesus the Christ from Peter and them to people now days who follow his spirit which is the same one who walked among us in the flesh the disciples of Jesus were called “ Christian’s “ later before that they were just known as disciples of Jesus Christ it’s still what a Christian is meant to be but by changing it from disciple to “ Christian” it takes away from the discipline part of faith , the learn from and follow the Lord Jesus part of salvation

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
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Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#9
I'm still curious if you agree with him on this one. Most people here would disagree with Dankenbring so it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal to say you also disagree, if you do.
My answer is sufficient,
Scripture references to sound doctrine include123:
  • 2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
  • Titus 1:9 - Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
  • Teach Sound Doctrine 2 But as for you, teach what accords with sound[ a] doctrine. 2 Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine.
  • 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3 For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4 So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Sound doctrine is important for interpreting Scripture4. It helps ensure that we confess and delight in all that Scripture teaches, rather than setting one passage against another or drawing conclusions from one passage that contradict another4.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,315
3,618
113
#10
My answer is sufficient,
Scripture references to sound doctrine include123:
  • 2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
  • Titus 1:9 - Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
  • Teach Sound Doctrine 2 But as for you, teach what accords with sound[ a] doctrine. 2 Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine.
  • 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3 For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4 So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Sound doctrine is important for interpreting Scripture4. It helps ensure that we confess and delight in all that Scripture teaches, rather than setting one passage against another or drawing conclusions from one passage that contradict another4.
You don't have to answer. Your non-answer is answer enough.