Man killed in Utah FBI raid allegedly posted death threats against Biden

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The king represents God.
when you are God, you can feel free to set up and tear down governments, and pronounce life or death for people.

meanwhile you are not God, and the Bible gives you no justification to act like you are.


so i reiterate:

There is no Biblical basis for Christians to threaten public officials with murder or bodily harm.
There is no Biblical basis for Christians to seek to overthrow their governments or rebel against their authority.
The Bible in fact very clearly warns us NOT to do those things or join ourselves with those who do.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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that's the perogative of THE KING, not you.
OK, now that this is the word of God it is the perogative of the King and you do not have the perogative to negate that, Jesus is Lord, not you.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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when you are God, you can feel free to set up and tear down governments, and pronounce life or death for people.

meanwhile you are not God, and the Bible gives you no justification to act like you are.


so i reiterate:

There is no Biblical basis for Christians to threaten public officials with murder or bodily harm.
There is no Biblical basis for Christians to seek to overthrow their governments.
The Bible in fact very clearly warns us NOT to do those things or join ourselves with those who do.
Wow how heroic to be standing up and fighting valiantly for what everyone agrees with, no dispute about that. Whooptido.

But as for unconstitutional hit squads going out to kill people, drag their bodies into the street to bleed out as a warning to others, be warned, because they will come for you.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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OK, now that this is the word of God it is the perogative of the King and you do not have the perogative to negate that, Jesus is Lord, not you.
exactly, Romans 13.

threatening public officials with assassination and seeking to overthrow the government is evil.

so you should really stop preaching evil.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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exactly, Romans 13.

threatening public officials with assassination and seeking to overthrow the government is evil.

so you should really stop preaching evil.
Accusing me of preaching evil is slander. Show me the post where I preached evil, not your deranged twisting and interpretation, but what I said. Thank you.

Otherwise I will complain to the proper authorities concerning this hate crime, which ironically is similar to what this man in Utah did.

Whenever someone deviates from the debate to have nasty attacks like this it is proof they have lost the argument.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Accusing me of preaching evil is slander. Show me the post where I preached evil, not your deranged twisting and interpretation, but what I said. Thank you.

Otherwise I will complain to the proper authorities concerning this hate crime, which ironically is similar to what this man in Utah did.

Whenever someone deviates from the debate to have nasty attacks like this it is proof they have lost the argument.
i said that the Bible does not support trying to overthrow the government or threatening to kill or injure it's officials, and for days you have been trying to twist scripture into justifying that it does.

¡claro!
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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i said that the Bible does not support trying to overthrow the government or threatening to kill or injure it's officials, and for days you have been trying to twist scripture into justifying that it does.

¡claro!
Which post? Simple question, simply give me the post #
 

ZNP

Well-known member
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we are a Christian forum, not an RNC mouthpiece, and not an instrument for treasonous threats against our country.
John 7:51 “Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing?”

No one has spoken any threats against our country on this thread.

Eli referred to the 2nd Amendment, that is not a threat, that is a right protected by our Constitution.

I have yet to see what this man posted online nor have I heard a single direct quote from him.

Yet in Post #17 Posthuman asks me:

do you disagree his heart was clearly full of murderous thoughts?

How would I know what is in his heart without first hearing from him?
 

ZNP

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Posthuman quotes and "My preaching"

(his posts are in bold and purple)

Post #7

threats of death or bodily harm are not covered by "free speech"

(no one at this point had said that it was. Although we have not seen the offending post on social media we are led to believe that it was a threat of bodily harm to Joe Biden and that it was a crime. No one had disputed that this man had been alleged to have committed a potential crime. The concern from the get go was that he was not given a trial. Simply executed by a pre dawn raid when he could have been picked up earlier when questioned by the FBI and they knew he did not pose an immediate threat to any person. He was in his house, alone. Why was he gunned down?)

Post #9

if i had to serve a warrant on a man who threatened to kill anyone who served a warrant, yes, i would be armed, if that's what you're asking.

This is Posthuman’s response. No one was asking that and it is unreasonable to interpret it this way.

Post #11

Eli's response is no less sinful than the rhetoric this man had been putting on the internet.

those things have consequences.

Notice how Posthuman didn’t say Eli’s post was illegal. Eli referred to the 2nd amendment and the government as being tyrannical. That is protected speech in the US.

Post #15

i do not support talking about overthrowing the government and threatening to shoot its representatives.

those things are evil, and worthy of condemnation. such speech is both immoral and illegal, and it will be righteously judged.

to me, the example here is that this secular, right-wing, seditious, violent rhetoric that has become so popular since 2008 is wicked and that as Christians we ought to have no part of it, much less celebrate it.


No one had celebrated this man’s actions, we don’t have enough information to even know exactly what his actions were. He told the FBI that he had had a dream and that is what he had posted. No one showed any support for “overthrowing the government” or “threatening to shoot its representatives”.

The only post that can be twisted to say that is Eli’s post, in order to do that you have to say that this is a threat to the US government:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That is part of the Bill of Rights. This is the US constitution and the rights that it protects. Posthuman’s position is to deny the basic rights in the Bill of Rights, that is by definition, tyrannical.

Post #17

do you disagree his heart was clearly full of murderous thoughts?

Posthuman asked me this question. Think about this, I have yet to see any direct quote from this man. No news story has shown us what he wrote on, no one has quoted him directly. How on earth would I know what was in his heart?

This is convicting him before we even get to hear from him. What Posthuman is saying here is heinous.

51 “Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing?”

Post #27

postman asked me this:

What exactly do you find reprehensible about what I am saying here?

I responded in Post #28

Sending a SWAT team to a 70 year old, homebound man's house, gunning him down in his house, dragging his body out into the street to bleed out and then leaving him there is justifiable because of his "thoughts".

Did he have a criminal record? No.

Had he committed a crime? No.

Was there an imminent threat to someone's life inside his house at the time they shot him? No.

Had he been charged and convicted of a crime? No.

Had he been charged with a crime? No.

I can understand why the FBI would want to question him. However, a pre dawn raid with a SWAT team which was a cover for a kill squad, that is reprehensible and any reasonable person would agree.


This is my “preaching”. How is this “evil”?
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
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This isn't the America God had the vision for.
I am not sure God ever had a vision for any version of America... from racial slavery to dropping nuclear bombs on Japanese civilians to locking up American Japanese in camps to aborting unborn children.

Interesting that my fellow Christians can see corruption on the federal level, but when people start showing videos of cops abusing their authority, they are quickly labeled anti-cop. What a shame people get put into a category for wanting to hold people put in authority accountable.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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when i said this,

Christianity does not include threatening others with murder or bodily harm, no.

neither does it include seeking to overthrow the government.
why did you say this?

Queen Esther, Nehemiah, Daniel and Joseph come to mind.

Judas Maccabeus springs to mind.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Simply executed
why do you say this, if you believe this

The concern from the get go was that he was not given a trial.
why do you keep calling this a "hit squad" and what was your intention in making this thread in the first place?
what feelings, intentions and thoughts were you hoping to evoke from those who read your thread?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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when i said this,



why did you say this?
I can definitely answer these questions, but so far I have answered all of your questions and you have answered none of mine. Also you have accused me of preaching evil. Back that up, then we can continue to have a discussion. Post #109 gives an example.

If you were genuine in your questions you would have asked them before accusing me of preaching evil. Now you realize there is no post you can point to.

So once, again the question you have refused to answer is this, you accused me of preaching evil, what post are you referring to?

Quoted from Post #109 This is my Preaching

Sending a SWAT team to a 70 year old, homebound man's house, gunning him down in his house, dragging his body out into the street to bleed out and then leaving him there is justifiable because of his "thoughts".

Did he have a criminal record? No.

Had he committed a crime? No.

Was there an imminent threat to someone's life inside his house at the time they shot him? No.

Had he been charged and convicted of a crime? No.

Had he been charged with a crime? No.

I can understand why the FBI would want to question him. However, a pre dawn raid with a SWAT team which was a cover for a kill squad, that is reprehensible and any reasonable person would agree.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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why do you say this, if you believe this



why do you keep calling this a "hit squad" and what was your intention in making this thread in the first place?
what feelings, intentions and thoughts were you hoping to evoke from those who read your thread?
See post #113
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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What does Matthew say about "evil"

Matthew 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Matthew 9:4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Matthew 22:18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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post #113 does not address my questions.
You accused me of preaching evil. That is slander. Explain yourself.

Matthew 22:18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Was there an imminent threat to someone's life inside his house at the time they shot him? No.
If you are a federal agent, a man holding a gun who has threatened to shoot federal agents if they approach him is in fact an imminent threat.

I think it better to attempt an arrest NOT in a public place where innocent people could potentially be harmed in an altercation involving firearms.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You accused me of preaching evil. That is slander. Explain yourself.
the answers to the questions you are refusing to address explain these things.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,871
13,201
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Man killed in Utah FBI raid allegedly posted death threats against Biden


300 lb man who uses a cane and is essentially homebound was a threat to National security and was neutralized by the Feds.

Barak Hussein Obama killing Osama Bin laden has nothing on Joe Biden.

interested to know what qualifies this as "Christian" news?