2 peter 19-22 understanding

[timemeddler]

19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Two things here "entangled" and "overcome", and is it game over after that? Well he equates being overcome to being enslaved, entangled probably means you've sinned in some way, and it wasn't a one off. How can falling into sin again be worse than being an ubeliever? perhaps it may be a case of it's alot harder to dig oneself out of sin, than it is to start off unsaved, get saved, and stay out of sin to begin with. I've heard people equate this passage with the idea of losing salvation, I don't buy it personally because nothing is worse than an unbeliever going to hell, unless after falling back into sin, you can never come back, but evidently if that were the case there is still hope

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Here's someone who obviously was entangled, but as the last line reads, his spirit may be saved(not yet overcome completely?). Am I on the right track believing that to be considered "overcome" you would have to essentially never repent or even try to clean up one's act before death?

 

[Magenta]

How can falling into sin again be worse than being an ubeliever?

When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.
Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house swept clean and put in order.
Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there. And the
final plight of that man is worse than the first. Luke 11:24–26 similar to Matthew 12:43–45

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Am I on the right track believing that to be considered "overcome" you would have to essentially never repent or even try to clean up one's act before death?

The 'right track' Biblically, would be, Because Of:

Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!

We have the following:

God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Grace Through faith is For Eternal Life, however, for true believers:

'repent/cleaning up'/loving our neighbor = "good works," and
'not doing so before death' = "bad works", which are for":

"rewards or loss thereof" when we finally reach our Heavenly Home!:
+
Bema Seat Judgment Of Christ:

"...Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The Day shall​

declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire​

shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work​

abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he​

himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:13-15)​

​

Thus, we should be 'overcome' By God's Spirit, and faithfully serve Him.

Amen.

 

[Charleeta]

Hi
An overcomer is one who has laid their life at the foot of the cross. Your life no longer is first, but Christ who lives in you. Our life is hidden in Christ. You are an overcomer by the blood of Jesus Christ. Your works are only an outward manifestation of the power of what has transformed on the inside of you. You are a new ...... born again. Your life will be manifested by what you put in your body.... what you read what you listen to, faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God... Keep listening and growing...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Two things here "entangled" and "overcome", and is it game over after that? Well he equates being overcome to being enslaved, entangled probably means you've sinned in some way, and it wasn't a one off. How can falling into sin again be worse than being an ubeliever? perhaps it may be a case of it's alot harder to dig oneself out of sin, than it is to start off unsaved, get saved, and stay out of sin to begin with. I've heard people equate this passage with the idea of losing salvation, I don't buy it personally because nothing is worse than an unbeliever going to hell, unless after falling back into sin, you can never come back, but evidently if that were the case there is still hope

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Here's someone who obviously was entangled, but as the last line reads, his spirit may be saved(not yet overcome completely?). Am I on the right track believing that to be considered "overcome" you would have to essentially never repent or even try to clean up one's act before death?

it’s a lifelong walk one day at a time that sounds like a cliche , but every day we face decisions temptations situations that require us to act and speak. Christian’s aren’t perfect even after they say “ I believe “ that is the point where they need to really hear what Jesus was teaching so they don’t think along Moses lines of “you sin you die the end “

this type of thing is what believers need to hear and let sink in Jesus is teaching Gods children here those who believe in him and are listening to him

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how righteous perfect people wouldn’t have any use for this ? But people who still are capable of making mistakes and commiting a trespass they find it to be immensely valuable if it’s believed it means because they aren’t perfect they can give three heert and do thier best for god , but when they mess up they have this law of mercy now th at doesn’t condemn them to death but rather says “ I do not condemn you , now go and repent before something worse happens “

Repentance is something that is always available ive repented a lot on seventy years but I’ve always been a believer and God never let me drown or cast me away but repenting a lot means also I e sinned a lot along the way spent years lost in addiction to alcohol which of course negate sinful ways and actions and poor judgement ….

but I haven’t drank now in many years over half of my life now have t touched a drop . About the last two years of it trying to quit and then failing I began toninderstsnd what godly sorrow was that produces repentance and actually severe the dominion and control sin has over us one step and one sin at a time

were always called to do everything right but we simply don’t do that no one does always the right thing says always the right thing so we need this law of mercy instead of a law of judgement without mercy .

If we have Jesus words promising things it’s always dependable because of who he is and our faith in him

grace allows God to accept sinners based on the perfection of Christ and his offering , and let them come close to hesr and believe and be changed over a lifetime he doesn’t say to a babe in Christ “ you must be perfect or put to death I won’t have you anymore “

he says to the ones who know they have sinned and feel it and repent over what they’ve done your forgiven now go forth and just treat other people the way I taught you be forgiving because you need mercy too , don’t judge because you have to face judgement too , forgive others because you and will need need forgivness too , don’t condemn others because you don’t want condemnation upon yourselves….

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. ( Christs word )

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy;

and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s an eternal judgement of God when we face judgement formoir deeds some will be judged very strictly and nothing will be pardoned because that’s how they treated everyone , others who need Jesus , are going to be judged by the words he said are life like “ judge not and you won’t be judged , forgive and you’ll be forgiven , be merciful and you’ll receive mercy ……this is God trying to save the imperfect and draw then into his light innorder to change them from sinners to children of God

awe need to be right but also understand repentance and the mercy and power of god to forgive us because he loves us




Or this

 

[Edify]

19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Two things here "entangled" and "overcome", and is it game over after that? Well he equates being overcome to being enslaved, entangled probably means you've sinned in some way, and it wasn't a one off. How can falling into sin again be worse than being an ubeliever? perhaps it may be a case of it's alot harder to dig oneself out of sin, than it is to start off unsaved, get saved, and stay out of sin to begin with. I've heard people equate this passage with the idea of losing salvation, I don't buy it personally because nothing is worse than an unbeliever going to hell, unless after falling back into sin, you can never come back, but evidently if that were the case there is still hope

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Here's someone who obviously was entangled, but as the last line reads, his spirit may be saved(not yet overcome completely?). Am I on the right track believing that to be considered "overcome" you would have to essentially never repent or even try to clean up one's act before death?

There is a time that God gives a person to repent. During that time, saints are to convince them to repent.

Matt 18:15“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

If the person doesn't repent, then God may at that time turn him over to a reprobate mind. Only then is it too late to repent.
I hope this helps.